Chamber Awards

This is the second in a series of stories about the 2011 winners of the Genesee County Chamber of Commerce Awards.

Arctic Refrigeration Company of Batavia, Inc. is heating things up in Genesee County and is being honored by the chamber of commerce as the 2011 Business of the Year.

Brothers Henry and Leo Mager established the company in 1947. The two were  factory mechanics at the time.

They started fixing household appliances, doing different kinds of handiwork on the side. Eventually, the plethora of small jobs gave birth to what is now Arctic Refrigeration.

More than six decades later, the company has evolved into what it is today, managing heating and cooling needs locally for both residential and commercial customers.

Sixty-five years of success is due in part to "longevity and reputation," Jonathan Mager said.

He and his brother, Justin, are the third generation in the family to work with the company, following in their father and grandfather's footsteps.

"We have been successful because we have always been small," Jonathan said. "Today, with less than 12 employees, the company has never grown beyond its means, which allows us to keep it personal and focused on customers."

In addition to heating and cooling, they also provide refrigerated and ventilated agricultural storages to enhance the freshness of harvested produce, reducing unwanted waste.

"We have a lot of onion, potato and cabbage farmers in this area," Jonathan said. "We design, engineer and install these storage systems that are the size of a high-school gymnasium."

The units allow farmers to keep produce longer, storing and selling it months later.

"We can increase storage life, shelf life and stored crop quality with experienced precision."

Three of the top 20 farms in the Northeast -- Torrey Farms, My-T-Acres and Turek Farms -- are some of the ones that house refrigerated systems built and managed by Arctic.

"These farms we service, received their awards in 2010. It is cool to see them recognized."

Arctic also has designed and installed one of the first geothermal heating and cooling systems in a home in this area.

As an alternative to using fossil fuels for heating and air conditioning, "geothermal in the simplest form is taking heat or cooling out of ground, running it through equipment to produce 400-percent-efficient systems," he said.

Because the depth of the Earth remains a constant temperature of 50 degrees, little electricity is used to pull energy out of the ground.

“In essence, it’s like free money,” Jonathan said. "With huge heating bills and costs rising, we are always looking for ways to be energy-efficient.”

Geothermal is not a new idea, having once been tried when there was a shift in the heating oil markets due to the Energy Crisis of 1970s. But it lost popularity just as quickly as it appeared.

More recently, geothermal techniques are finding their way back into commercial and residential heating/cooling systems across the country as consumer trends adopt a more "green" solution.

“Everything we do is energy consumption. Farmers and homeowners want to lower energy bills and this means what we do is lead by being ‘green’.”

Arctic Refrigeration will continue to advance heating and cooling systems for the community by building on the most efficient, environmentally sound methods available.

This is the first in a series of stories about the 2011 winners of the Genesee County Chamber of Commerce Awards.

Since opening its doors for business in the fall, Palm Island Indoor Water Park at the Clarion Hotel has made a big splash.

Being chosen as the 2011 Innovative Enterprise of the Year by the Genesee County Chamber of Commerce is proof of its positive impact on the area.

On Sept. 30 last year, a risky dream became a reality for owner Chan Patel, when the doors opened at the new indoor water park in the Town of Batavia and people started to trickle in.

It began when Patel starting to think of ways to create a business to attract tourists throughout the stagnant winter months when business typically all but freezes.

The goal was to invest in a new product to provide a steady flow of revenue during the off season.

"I have many long-term employees who have families," Patel said. "I wanted to help keep jobs for them during the winter when it slows."

Previously, the hotel maintained around 60 employees.

This year, rather than laying off staff, the water park has generated additional jobs. Currently, Patel employs 100 people and is still hiring.

"What I have brought to town is unique," Patel said. "The water park is something different and a way to increase business."

Not only has the water park improved business at the hotel, it has boosted the number of tourists pouring into local restaurants and stores.

From September to December, the attraction drew around 10,000 more people than usual for that time of year.

"I have been told that business has increased in town due to what we have done here at the Clarion," Patel said.

He first came to Batavia in 2001 with his wife and two sons, buying what was once the Holiday Inn.

While living in Boston, a friend informed him the hotel was for sale and "I was up for the challenge," he said.

In 2004, after a family trip to Splash Lagoon Indoor Water Park Resort in Erie, Pa., he was inspired to provide a similar attraction here.

His oldest son was excited about the plans and told his father that "Batavia will finally be on the map. Everyone will know where it is."

After getting bank approval, work began on the project in 2006.

"When we first started, we traveled all over to try different indoor water parks," Patel said. "Our youngest son was our eyes, giving us many ideas through his perspective."

Right now the park is for children 12 years of age and under. Packages are available for overnight guests, and day passes available if rooms aren't sold out.

In a few years, Patel would like to expand another 10,000 square feet. This water park may be just the beginning of things to come.

The Geneseean of the Year for 2011 is Donna Saskowski, executive director of the local chapter of NY ARC. The Genesee County Chamber of Commerce made the announcement today.

Saskowski will be among the honorees at the chamber's 40th Annual Awards Ceremony on April 14 at the Clarion Hotel in Batavia. The other recipients were announced Friday.

Joe Teresi, above, accepts his 2010 Geneseean of the Year award from the Genesee County Chamber of Commerce during the its annual awards dinner Saturday at the Clarion Hotel.

Below, the articles we previously published about each of the award winners.

• Meet Joseph Teresi, Geneseean of the Year
• Business of the Year has it covered
• Pudgie puts the local into 'locally grown' produce and garden plants
• Stuart Steiner: Leaving at the 'top of his game' and reaping a special reward
• Robert Bennett honored for outstanding community service

Ron Weiler, Sterling Tents, Business of the Year.

Robert Bennett, winner of Wolcott “Jay” Humphrey III Excellence in Community Leadership Award.

More pictures after the jump:

MC, Dan Fischer, WBTA.

Jeff Boshart, chairman of the chamber board.

Chamber President Lynn Freeman.

Stu Steiner accepting the chamber's first-ever Lifetime Achievement Award.

Stu Steiner.

Daniel "Pudgie" Riner, owner of Triple P Farms, 2010 Agricultural Business of the Year.

This is the third in our series of stories about the 2010 Chamber of Commerce award winners. The awards will be presented at a dinner Saturday at the Clarion Hotel.

Like many small businesses, Triple P Farms in Oakfield started with a budding business owner seeing a need and believing he could start small and grow his enterprise.

Daniel "Pudgie" Riner, 52, was raised on a farm in Byron. After his father sold the family farm to the My T Acres, Riner spent 11 years working for the Call family.

He was pretty confident he could grow things. He had just never tried growing anything in a greenhouse before.

Shortly after marrying Patti Call more than 22 years ago, he opened Triple P Farms with a single 2,000-square-foot greenhouse.

Riner was encouraged by his brother and Craig Yunker of CY Farms to start with tomato seedlings.

"They were not happy with quality of transplants that they were buying out of the south and I thought I could grow something better," Riner recalled. "They gave me an opportunity to try and that’s what started the greenhouse business."

Today, Triple P Farms is comprised of more than two acres of greenhouses and he's adding on another 25,000 square feet. Triple P annually produces more than 12 million onion and cabbage plants for local farmers.

It's that kind of growth and contribution to the local agriculture community that led the Genesee County Chamber of Commerce to select Triple P Farms as 2010 Agriculture Business of the Year.

It's an award, Riner said, he finds humbling.

He credits his employees, his customers, his vendors and other members of the agriculture community, even his bank, for making the award possible.

"I always say, one of my biggest assets is the people around me who help make it work. I have the right team around me."

After more than 22 years in business, Riner said what gives him the biggest satisfaction are his employees. He keeps five full-time employees year around and employees 15 to 20 more people during the summer months.

"It feels pretty good that you’re doing something to help people survive."

He said people like his office manager, Debbie Lynch, who has been with Triple P almost from the beginning, and his retail store manager, Scott Fisher, are the ones who really get the work done.

"I don’t know how we could do it without the key people around that make it work."

In the summer, much of Triple P's staffing increase comes from Riner hiring young people.

Riner -- whose friends started calling him "Pudgie" when he was a teen and the nickname stuck -- said he likes new hires to be juniors in high school. It's hard, physical labor, but he enjoys working with youngsters, even mentoring them right through college.

"I always tell them, If you work for me you'll figure out why you don’t want to do this for the rest of your life. Go to college and get a brain."

About 11 years ago, Riner bought a retail nursery on West Main Street in the Town of Batavia from the Riegel family.  

He renamed it Pudgie's Lawn and Garden Center.

“They (the Riegel family) had a wonderful reputation and I’d like to think that we have continued that wonderful reputation of high quality plants that are locally grown. The lawn and garden store we call Pudgie's has been good to us and we try to add more and more to it every year. We have a very good customer base there."

All of the "bedding" plants sold at Pudgie's are grown at Triple P, giving gardeners a chance to buy locally grown plants from local plant experts (most of Pudgie's employees are master gardeners).

This year, Riner lost his pea-picking business as the frozen food industry has consolidated around just two harvesting companies (Riner said he's proud that his business was one of the final four out of a few dozen once upon a time), but he's already taking Triple P in a new, promising direction.

This winter, he and a partner, A.J. Wormuth, started growing cucumbers in the Triple P greenhouses to sell through area retail stores under the Fresh Harvest Farms brand.

The new line is off to a promising start and the time is right, Riner said, to expand into other winter-grown vegetables because of the strong consumer interest in locally grown produce.

"There’s a big push industry for local. The challenge is getting into the big box stores like Tops or Wegmans or Save-A-Lot, but with the impact of people pushing local, the door has opened a little more than in the past."

Riner and Patti have three children. One attends RIT, another is working on becoming a teacher and their oldest daughter lives and works in the Washington, D.C., area.

He said he and Patti keep most of their community involvement pretty low-key. They're active in Northgate Church and do what they can individually to help families and young people.

Patti supports the Cancer Society. She's twice survived cancer.

As he mentions her cancer battles, Pudgie chokes up.

“It still bugs me," he said, as his eyes moistened and his voice cracked. "You can tell. You can tell.”

In an awards ceremony themed "Simply Elegant," the Genesee County Chamber of Commerce honored its Class of 2009 with a dinner and presentation at a local hotel on Saturday night.  

Pictured above are, front row, Billie Owens, Naomi Silver, Chris Sardou, Mary Sardou, Christine Adamczak; back, Howard Owens, Gary Larde, Buddy Brasky, Tom Sardou, Steve Tufts,  Bill Dougherty, Tony Kutter and Travis Sick.

UPDATE 8:22 p.m., Monday: I should note, it was The Batavian's turn this year  to write, and WBTA to broadcast, profiles of this year's award recipients. I'd like to thank Genesee Graphics for printing, and Bill Mosman, a L.C. Mosman for framing the prints. Bill did an excellent job on was by necessity a rush order.

More pictures after the jump:

Dan "The Voice of Genesee County" Fischer, of WBTA, delivered a few opening remarks.

Tony Kutter accepts the award for Kutter's Factory Cheese Store.

Naomi Silver of Rochester Community Baseball with daughter, Desiree, 8.

Steve Tufts of the Batavia Area Jaycees with Tara Pariso and Cathryn Colby.

Chris, Tom and Mary Sardou of Viking Valhalla/Rose Garden Bowl, the Business of the Year.

Myron "Buddy" Brasky, Batavia High basketball coach (and JV baseball coach), the Geneseean of the Year.

ADDED: Thanks to Melissa George from the Chamber for the picture below.

Dan Fisher at WBTA was kind enough to air a story today about The Batavian, interviewing me and Billie, with Pachuco in the studio.

Ameka Cooper at Carlson's Studio shot the portrait picture.

You can listen to Dan's story here (mp3).

The awards will be handed out Saturday night at the Holiday Inn.

Previously, The Batavian ran the following stories on our fellow award winners:

• Genesee County Business of the Year: Viking Valhalla Restaurant
• Geneseean of the Year: Buddy Brasky
• Kutter's Cheese Factory Store: 2009 Agricultural Business of the Year
• Special Recognition Award: Rochester Community Baseball
• Special Service Recognition Award: The Batavia Area Jaycees

It was the day after the Batavia Blue Devils dropped a first-round Section V playoff game to Aquinas in 1997 that Alex Nesbeth and Mike Glow came to Coach Myron "Buddy" Brasky and said, "Next year, we're going to win the sectionals."

Brasky looked at his junior players, shrugged, and said, "yeah, OK."

"No, Coach," Nesbeth said. "We're going to do it. We're going to do whatever it takes."

The Blue Devils hadn't so much as won its division in years and years, and Brasky, in his seventh season as head coach, had just posted his first winning campaign, leading the team to a 11-10 record.

From the day Brasky took over, the naysayers told the young coach the Blue Devils would never win another championship in basketball. Batavia was too small of a school in a big-school division. There was just no way to beat the big boys from Monroe County.

An 11-10 season wasn't exactly a prelude to proving the skeptics wrong, but Nesbeth and three of his teammates decided it was high time to do just that.

"That’s when I was teaching at Jackson School," Brasky said. "It was the middle of winter and those kids -- there were four of them -- they would walk from the high school to Jackson School and do skill work with me. Almost every day, from about 3:30 to 5. We had a small, tiny gym, just two baskets, and they worked and worked and worked."

The next season, the Blue Devils posted an impressive 20-4 record. But more importantly, they won a Section V title -- the first of three titles the Blue Devils posted in Brasky's 20 years as the team's head coach.

"The Pride is Alive." 

That was the motto Brasky coined for the team when he took over as coach prior to the 1990-91 season.

The Batavia-born-and-bred athletics fanatic never forgot the glory years of Blue Devils basketball from his young days -- the years of John Walton, the Wescotts, Bruce Beswick and Billy Monroe.  

But by the time Brasky was the starting point guard, the glory years, the pride, were starting to fade.

"When I played here, we were just average," Brasky said. "We weren’t great. That’s where it started going down a little bit, and after I graduated, it went way down."

Brasky enrolled at GCC after graduation and then transferred to SUNY Cortland. He completed his degree in Physical Education and soon after moved to Denver, where he worked for health clubs. From there, he moved back to Buffalo.

Then a coaching and teaching position opened in Batavia. This is what Brasky had always wanted to do.

As an athlete, he gravitated toward the leadership positions on teams -- quarterback in football, catcher in baseball, point guard in basketball. He hung close to his coaches. He didn't strive to be the star of the team. He liked the leadership role and he looked up to the men that molded the teams he played on.

"I’ve known since I was 10 years old I wanted to be a coach," Brasky said.

But it wasn't easy taking over Blue Devils basketball. It was a program that wasn't in the habit of posting winning records -- the team would win only two games in Brasky's second season -- but the coach said he knew the spirit was there. "The pride is alive," he kept telling his players. There was a tradition to Batavia basketball, and Brasky was determined to bring it back.

Since that first winning season in 1997, the Blue Devils have not dipped into double-figure losses. They've won eight division titles and are on a run of 14 consecutive winning seasons.

Brasky credits the young athletes for their willingness to work hard, to work year around, but they're only willing to make that committment, Brasky said, because "the pride is alive."

"Now the kids (have) bought in," Brasky said. "We won. They want to be part of a winner."

Just in basketball alone, Brasky probably interacts with more than 250 students in the community every year. Besides the regular varsity season, Brasky coaches basketball year round, including summer camps and clinics. Every step of the way, he stresses that it isn't just about winning. It's about developing the habits that make young men succeed in life.

"I try to instill that all of this hard work you’re doing is not just to win basketball," Brasky said. "That’s part of it. We want to win. But these are habits that you’re going to carry on the rest of your life. These habits of hard work, and dedication, and loyalty and commitment – those are what companies look for. You will be a success in life if you can get these values."

No matter how important the game, Brasky said -- miss a practice, break a rule, and you're not likely to play. That isn't a position that is always popular with fans or parents, but it's the only way, Brasky said, to teach players to be winners both on and off the court.

“I made a decision early in my career that I would never put winning over doing what ‘s right for the kids,” Brasky said.

It's an ethic that has paid off. In the application to the Genesee County Chamber of Commerce for Brasky's 2009 Geneseean of the Year Award, student after student said they learned the value of hard work from Brasky and it has helped them be more successful in life.

"Coach Buddy Brasky shared with me the passion to be the best you can be in life," wrote Scott "Par Par" Partridge (Class 1997). "Every practice, every game, every scrimmage we took part in was completed with 100-percent effort -- if not, then we enjoyed running suicides until we did. I have learned from Coach Brasky that hard work and dedication pays off. Those who push themselves as hard as they can will reap the rewards in the end. The quote, 'The Pride Is Alive,' was printed on our shirts and through playing for coach, I took that to heart. Have pride in who you are and what you do -- give it your all and you have nothing to regret."

Brasky said he was moved by all the testimonials from former players, just as he is when he sees those young men out in the community or at games.

"You hope you're making an impact on kids," Brasky said. "They never tell you that until they get to be like 25 years old. A lot of times, they will see me out -- I'll be at dinner -- and they'll be with their girlfriends and they'll come over to the table, or a lot of them will come and see me before a game, or wait until after, so we can talk -- that's a very, very rewarding part of the job."

It was hard -- even 43 years later -- for Mary Sardou to retell the story of her husband's passing and what it meant for 13-year-old Tom.

"When my husband passed, we sat in the funeral home for three days," Mary says, and then stops, pushing back tears. "I'm sorry," she says.

"You started the story, ma. You've got to finish it," says Tom, now 56, as we sit in the dining room of the Rose Garden Bowl/Viking Valhalla Restaurant in Bergen, talking over a plate of wings about the history of Genesee County's 2009 Business of the Year.

Doc and Mary Sardou bought the Rose Garden Restaurant -- 30 years in business at the time -- in 1954, added a bowling alley three years later and renamed it Viking Valhalla in 1966. They had some rough times as young entrepreneurs, working hard, trying to raise two sons, and dealing with the region's changing business climate. But it was the death of Tom's father that may have been the biggest challenge for the family to overcome.

"Everybody," says Mary, trying to start again, "everybody who walked up to us said to him ... 'now you’re the man of the house. You’re the man.' I’m sure that just stuck in his mind. It stuck in mine. I think he felt very obligated to stay with me."

"Did that have an impact on you?"

"Absolutely," says Tom. "That was drilled into me. When I went into high school I knew what my course in life would be. It was going to be running a business."

Tom Sardou did what many teenage boys did -- he went to school, made the wresting team and even dreamed of being a cop. But after graduation, he didn't enter the University of Buffalo or RIT or even GCC. Sardou started a different education program: "the college of hard knocks," as he puts it.

First, Sardou took a job at Gates Bowl as a night manager so he could learn the bowling business. The next year, at age 19, Tom started running, with his mother, the restaurant and bowling lanes.

And he's been at it, seven days a week, ever since.

"I do enjoy it," Tom says. "There’s times when I would like a little more time off than I get. There’s times when I wake up in the morning and say, 'geez, I’d like to call in sick today.'"

Hard work and innovation to adjust to an ever-changing business climate pretty much define Viking Valhalla and the Sardous.

At 82, Mary Sardou still comes to the restaurant every day to take care of the books and look over the operation. Tom took a special interest in the bowling business, even serving for years as president of the area's bowling operators association, and manages the restaurant along with his wife, Chris -- who met Tom, where else, at the Viking Valhalla.

When Mary, Tom and Chris attend the chamber's award ceremony Saturday evening, it will be the first time ever that at least one of them was not at Viking Vahalla on a weekend night.

That's quite a bit of dedication for a restaurant Mary wasn't sure she even wanted her husband to buy when they first saw it. She didn't even want to go inside after they drove from their home in Fairport to look at it. "We came all this way," Doc said. "We might as well take a look."

Her first day of work at the restaurant began minutes later, when she saw the owner's wife needed help with the dishes.

At first, the couple paid weekly rent on the restaurant. Doc cooked and Mary tended bar, pregnant with their son, George.

Doc happened to meet one of the county's richest men at the time, Oakfield's G. Sherwin Haxton. Haxton came into the bar one day to meet Mary. He decided the Sardous seemed like decent, hard-working people. He decided to help them out. Mary calls Haxton, "our angel."

“He liked us," Mary said. "He went to bat for us. He went to the Columbia Bank in Rochester and he talked to the owner of the bank and told him to give us the loan, and he did.”

The loan helped them expand.

Winters for a restaurant along Buffalo Road in Bergen were dead. In the late '50s, there were no snowmobilers riding up to your front door looking for a brew and a burger, and with Batavia Downs closed for the season, there was very little Rochester-to-Batavia traffic. The Sardous had to figure out a way to bring in business during the cold, snowy months.

The bowling alley seemed like the right idea.

That worked for a while, but after the Thruway opened, more and more traffic bypassed Bergen. While a lot of family businesses in New York shut down as a result of the Thruway opening, the Sardous were determined to hang on. They worked harder, started hosting more parties and found ways to make ends meet.

While other business owners might have given up, Tom Sardou said, "We've never been of that mindset."

To keep the bowling business going, the Sardous have added leagues to fit into any bowler's schedule, from monthly leagues and morning leagues for mothers to a "wine and cheese league" Chris created to attract people who like to try new, fine wines.

But bowling slows down in the summer when people are more interested in outdoor activities, so Tom added sand volleyball courts in 1993.

The constant tinkering and finding new ways to keep the business going are just part of the family tradition.

"After my husband died, people said, ‘she won’t last six months,’" Mary recalls. "They were thinking I would give up or fall on my face. I’m not sure which. But I was determined to make it.

"This is my whole life."

History. Community. Baseball. Three things Naomi Silver knows something about.

In 1956, 57 years after the Rochester baseball franchise was formed, the St. Louis Cardinals, which had owned and operated the Red Wings for the previous 27 seasons, decided to abandon the city. Naomi's father, Morrie Silver, made it his one-man mission to save baseball for Rochester.

Silver formed Rochester Community Baseball, Inc. In 72 days, Morrie sold enough stock in the team -- 8,882 shares to local investors -- to buy the team from the Cardinals, keeping it from being either shuttered or moved.

Today, Rochester is home to the only minor league baseball team that has operated in the same city since the 1800s.

Batavia is also a historic baseball city. The New York-Penn League was formed in Batavia and Batavia is one of only two cities -- along with Jamestown -- that still has teams connected to those original six franchises.

The Muckdogs trace their lineage to 1939.

It's that history, and the importance of baseball to the community, that attracted Naomi Silver and Red Wings General Manager Dan Mason, to the Muckdogs.

Prior to the 2008 season, the Muckdogs were on the ropes. 

The team lost $150,000 in 2007. It seemed nearly certain the NY-Penn League would force the team to move to a larger market. Silver and Mason heard about the dire straits of baseball in Batavia and decided to do something about it.

Rochester Community Baseball stepped in and paid off all of those debts and agreed to operate the team and see if the franchise could once again become a profitable operation.

Fewer than 200 cities in North America have professional baseball teams.

In cities such as Ithica, Elmira and Watertown, baseball fans are bereft each summer of the opportunity to see future stars swat homers the way Ryan Howard did a few years ago at Dwyer Stadium. They miss the joys of showing up at the ballpark and visiting with friends or mentoring grandchildren while watching young pros hone their skills in one of the most storied and historic leagues of professional sports.

"For Batavia to have a team is a great asset," Mason said. "It’s something that a lot of other cities would love to have. The pride that it generates, and the memories it generates for the fans in any minor league community, is something that is a great asset to the quality of life in that town."

Credit Rochester Community Baseball with saving the sport in Batavia, for now. It's the reason the Red Wings will accept a special recognition award Saturday from the Genesee County Chamber of Commerce. But it doesn't guarantee baseball in Batavia in 2011.

Even after winning a championship in 2008, the first year the club fell under Red Wings' management, the team still lost $100,000 in 2009.

This year's campaign is critical, Silver said, in determining the future of baseball in Batavia.

"I would have thought that last year we could have broken even," Silver said. "This year, we most definitely must break even. We should be better than that."

Fan support is important, but minor league teams survive on business sponsorships. At one time, local businesses were very supportive of the Muckdogs, but the sponsorships fell off in recent years. Muckdogs General Manager Travis Sick is working hard -- with help from superfan Russ Salway -- selling corporate sponsorships. The level of local business support, Silver said, will be key to determining the future of the Muckdogs.

"We’ll know in a relatively short time what the outcome will be,” Silver said. "We’ll be able to tell very soon what our sponsorships are going to be like. We won’t know if we’re going to draw more people until the baseball season starts."

It's clear that Silver and Mason care a good deal about baseball, history and community. It's woven into the mission and culture of Red Wings baseball, and it's why there's a Batavia Muckdogs team this year.

Now is the time, according to Silver, for the community to step up the effort to support baseball in Batavia.

"We definitely want to get people involved in this," Silver said. "Everyone has a stake in this in Batavia. Whether you’re a fan that should be making a decision to come out to the ballpark or whether you’re a business and would hate to see baseball leave Batavia, we hope they'll all get out there.

"There’s hardly a community I can imagine," Silver added, "that would want to lose an asset like this."