Molino is getting $130K and better benefits from Tompkins County. The salary is above the schedule set by Tompkins County when the job was posted. Gretch Difante left for a city in the ballpark of Batavia to become manager at a salary of $130K.
These developments tell you how stiff the competition is for top-quality government executives.
We often hear, "but Batavia is a small city." But it's not the size of the city as a stand-alone consideration that determines the salary. It's the quality of the executives and the competition for their services that is the leading determining factor.
You get what you pay for and if you cheap out, you get what you deserve.
If the council wants to hire a top executive to replace Molino, expect a salary range of $120k to $130k, plus an assistant (plus the expense of the search), and remember that Molino probably could have been retained for a couple of more years at something less than $120K (remember, he was trying to negotiate a new contract that would have kept him here longer when the council broke it's promise of a raise last year).
Howard I hope your estimate for potential salary is waaaayyyy on the high side.
I found one site (https://www.payscale.com/research/US/Job=City_Manager/Salary) that indicates something less.
I see Batavia, like it or not, as a stepping stone community where someone comes in, learns or hones his/her skills and moves on after a few years. Personally, I do not think we should be expected to pay $150K to manage a city of 15,000 residents (that would be the manager and assistant).
I am opposed to the appointment of an assistant city manager.
Everyone in the workforce is asked to do more with less. That should include the potential city manager of Batavia.
I support the hiring of an Assistant City Manager. Every organization this size needs a defined #2. I do not know of any government entity (State, City, County, Town or Village) that does not have one. Even most civic organizations and clubs have a #2.
But, I do not think it should be a stand alone job. It should be combined with another, just as it was for years when Sally Kuzon was the Assistant Manager and head of the DPW.
I would suggest a new Assistant be combined with the Economic Development job we now contract out for about $70,000 per year.
As for being a stepping stone, I think Dave is right.
Jason was pretty fresh out of college (not completely, but close) when he became city manager. Batavia got lucky that he was as good as he was, and even then, he had a steep learning curve with some of his management skills early on.
Hiring another kid out of college may not work out as well. It's a gamble.
The ideal candidate should have some municipal experience and that would probably mean with a larger agency. That is going to drive the cost up.
Steep increases in pay in positions don't come with annual pay raises. That helps keep pay down. They come when people change jobs. The market adjusts with each job change.
Whether the assistant job is stand-alone or not should really be the decision of the new manager who knows best his or her personnel needs. Combining it with BDC would mean either Julie becomes the assistant or you push another good person who has done a good job out of a job.
People in jobs are not widgets, especially in knowledge-industry jobs. They are not interchangeable parts that you fit here and there on whim for whatever you think you can afford. They are valuable assets who require equitable compensation and either you invest in quality assets or you settle for lower quality, but you can't just simply say, we're going to move this piece over here and that piece over there and replace this piece with that piece and expect good results. And that's what you're suggesting, John -- oh, let's just combine these two jobs and hire whomever we can get for manager at whatever low price we want to pay and all will be fine. It doesn't work that way.
As for being a stepping stone, one indication that the right person is hired is if that person is able to move on to a few years to a bigger and better job. Let's just hope its for the right reasons and not because the person was poorly managed, as Jason was, by the City Council.
re: John #3 John, you are way off base with this assessment. The fact is, I did a short research of the NYS' 11 cities similar in population to Batavia [+/- 3,000]. Only 1 other city on this list [Geneva] has a City Manager, and it does have an assistant manager who is also their HR director. So in other words, ALL the other 10 "cities" are run without a "manager, and obviously no assistant manager". Plus, interestingly Batavia is the ONLY city among the 12 that DOES NOT have a Mayor.
Do you have any clue why this is? Is it because Batavia is so much smarter? Or because Batavia is so much better at management? Batavia certainly has NOT outpaced by any stretch of the imagination.
Arguably, a strong "at large" candidate is essentially the same as a Mayor. But, in Batavia we have 3 "at large" seats. This is a ridiculous abuse of the balance of power, as it is almost certain that the "at large" seats will be won by the controlling party... thus unfairly overriding the representation of the individual wards.
As Dave said #2 " we shouldn't be expected to pay $150K to manage a city of 15,000 residents"... IMO we shouldn't be paying $90K, unless and except, if the manager is doing the whole job [no assistant necessary].
Dunkirk:
Population (2010) Total 12,563
Estimate (2016) 11,940
Government
Type: Mayor+5 member Common Council
Geneva:
Population (2010) Total 13,261
Estimate (2016) 12,988
Government
Type: Mayor+8 member City Council-Manager
Oneonta:
Population (2010) Total 13,901
Estimate (2016) 13,955
Government
Type: Mayor+8 member Common Council
Olean:
Population (2010) Total 14,452
Estimate (2016) 13,794
Government
Type: Mayor+7 member Common Council
Glens Falls:
Population (2010) Total 14,700
Estimate (2016) 14,328
Government
Type: Mayor+6 member Common Council
Tonawanda:
Population (2010) Total 15,130
Estimate (2016) 14,858
Government
Type: Mayor+5 member Common Council
Batavia:
Population (2010) Total 15,465
Estimate (2016) 14,801
Government Type:
9 member City Council+Manager
Beacon:
Population (2010) Total 15,541
Estimate (2016) 14,271
Government Type:
Mayor+6 member City Council
Gloversville:
Population (2010) Total 15,665
Estimate (2016) 14,940
Government Type:
Mayor+7 member Common Council
Rye:
Population (2010) Total 15,720
Estimate (2016) 15,980
Government Type:
Mayor+6 member City Council-Manager
Cohoes:
Population (2010) Total 16,168
Estimate (2016) 16,883
Government Type:
Mayor+6 member Common Council
Lackawanna:
Population (2010) Total 18,141
Estimate (2016) 17,868
Correction to my post #5... there are two other cities on the above list that have a manager [Geneva & Rye].
Also interesting, all these other cities have less "at large" positions than Batavia, and six of them have zero. I'd suggest this is something Batavia should consider revising.
Brain, nice.
But as an example, you left out that Oneonta has a Mayor (at around $54,000) and a City Manager (at about $110,000).
The At Large positions in Batavia had been looked at a number of times. It was thought that 3 At large gave people more access to Council members, along witht he 6 ward members.
OK John, so I missed one. I admittedly was going by Wikipedia and obviously it is not up-to-date on Oneonta. However, actually it appears that the Mayor of Oneonta received $12,000, and that the office was budgeted for $17,500 in 2017. https://www.ecode360.com/documents/ON1737/public/333203341.pdf
I find that Oneonta just switched to using a manager in 2012. It would be interesting to contact them and find out what improvements [if any] a manager has reaped. I'd suggest this would be an expedient thing for the Batavia City Council to do in it's search for a new manager.
The At-large seats tend to be just extra representation for the dominant party. Think about this... in Batavia having a 9 member Council w/3 at-large seats, if 20% of the registered voters participate in an at large election, and the winners only need 50%+1, so what we get is 10% of the voters naming 1/3 of the City Council! Imagine how the voting on city council would change if we got rid of the Republican at large reps?
Brian, just trying to point out a fast search does not tell the whole story. Glenn Falls for example has a Mayor, but also has an Assistant Mayor, a Community Development position, and Economic Development position, both with clerks, and many more jobs than here.
As for voter turn out being larger if there were 3 less Republicans, that's just stupid.
BTW John, your calling me Brain once again [what's this now the 6-7th time you've done it?] was it a typo(?) or is it a slick way of circumventing Howard's ban on name calling?
John you miss the point completely. I did not suggest or imply that voter turnout would be larger... not even close. The point I made was simple. It's obvious that at-large seats [where the entire voter base can vote for] will generally be won [controlled] by the dominant party of the community. In Batavia this is predominantly Republican. Now, this is also generally the case with the separate ward voting too. But having At-large seats' primary accomplishment will be to increase the number of dominant party presence vs any minority [Democrat, Libertarian, African Americans, etc]. For example: With 9 members on City Council, if 2 members are non-Republican and the rest [7] are. the minority representation has considerably less influence than they would if there were just 4 Republican members. IMO, the 6 Ward representatives already cover the entire city and that should be all that is needed. If there is deemed a need for more representatives, then create another Ward.
For another example: With 9 members on City Council, mathematically each position represent 11% of the population. The % of blacks in the City of Batavia is near 8% and increasing [granted it's not 11% yet], but how many black members of City Council are there? [Sidebar: What % of the BPS BoE are black?]
"In 2013 Fayette County, Georgia, was ordered by a federal district court to develop single-member districts for election of members to its county council and its school board. Due to 'at-large voting', African Americans had been unable to elect any candidate of their choice to either of these boards for decades. A black candidate, for example, recently lost a Fayette County Board of Education election after receiving 99 percent support from Black voters, but securing only 15 percent from white voters." http://atlantablackstar.com/2013/05/22/fayette-county-at-large-election…
Thanks for the Christmas wish John, and I return the sentiment to you. FWIW I am a consummate scrooge, I don't participate in Christmas except for the children, and a limited amount at that. Happy Humbug
By increasing the potential, for example: 2/6 vs 2/9. And at this juncture, the minority I'm referring to in this discussion of City Council, is the Democrat, Libertarian, Conservative, Independent, party's affiliates. In the recent election, if the Democrats or Libertarians were to have won one of the At-large seats, how much difference would that have made in the voting on CC with 6 of the other seats Republicans? On many/most issues very little to none. Thankfully local politics isn't as partisan as state and federal nonsense... but it's bad enough. I'm registered Republican but am very disappointed in some of our local GOP electives who are obviously not fiscally conservative, smaller government, lower taxes representatives.
Molino is getting $130K and
Molino is getting $130K and better benefits from Tompkins County. The salary is above the schedule set by Tompkins County when the job was posted. Gretch Difante left for a city in the ballpark of Batavia to become manager at a salary of $130K.
These developments tell you how stiff the competition is for top-quality government executives.
We often hear, "but Batavia is a small city." But it's not the size of the city as a stand-alone consideration that determines the salary. It's the quality of the executives and the competition for their services that is the leading determining factor.
You get what you pay for and if you cheap out, you get what you deserve.
If the council wants to hire a top executive to replace Molino, expect a salary range of $120k to $130k, plus an assistant (plus the expense of the search), and remember that Molino probably could have been retained for a couple of more years at something less than $120K (remember, he was trying to negotiate a new contract that would have kept him here longer when the council broke it's promise of a raise last year).
Howard I hope your estimate
Howard I hope your estimate for potential salary is waaaayyyy on the high side.
I found one site (https://www.payscale.com/research/US/Job=City_Manager/Salary) that indicates something less.
I see Batavia, like it or not, as a stepping stone community where someone comes in, learns or hones his/her skills and moves on after a few years. Personally, I do not think we should be expected to pay $150K to manage a city of 15,000 residents (that would be the manager and assistant).
I am opposed to the appointment of an assistant city manager.
Everyone in the workforce is asked to do more with less. That should include the potential city manager of Batavia.
I support the hiring of an
I support the hiring of an Assistant City Manager. Every organization this size needs a defined #2. I do not know of any government entity (State, City, County, Town or Village) that does not have one. Even most civic organizations and clubs have a #2.
But, I do not think it should be a stand alone job. It should be combined with another, just as it was for years when Sally Kuzon was the Assistant Manager and head of the DPW.
I would suggest a new Assistant be combined with the Economic Development job we now contract out for about $70,000 per year.
As for being a stepping stone, I think Dave is right.
Jason was pretty fresh out of
Jason was pretty fresh out of college (not completely, but close) when he became city manager. Batavia got lucky that he was as good as he was, and even then, he had a steep learning curve with some of his management skills early on.
Hiring another kid out of college may not work out as well. It's a gamble.
The ideal candidate should have some municipal experience and that would probably mean with a larger agency. That is going to drive the cost up.
Steep increases in pay in positions don't come with annual pay raises. That helps keep pay down. They come when people change jobs. The market adjusts with each job change.
Whether the assistant job is stand-alone or not should really be the decision of the new manager who knows best his or her personnel needs. Combining it with BDC would mean either Julie becomes the assistant or you push another good person who has done a good job out of a job.
People in jobs are not widgets, especially in knowledge-industry jobs. They are not interchangeable parts that you fit here and there on whim for whatever you think you can afford. They are valuable assets who require equitable compensation and either you invest in quality assets or you settle for lower quality, but you can't just simply say, we're going to move this piece over here and that piece over there and replace this piece with that piece and expect good results. And that's what you're suggesting, John -- oh, let's just combine these two jobs and hire whomever we can get for manager at whatever low price we want to pay and all will be fine. It doesn't work that way.
As for being a stepping stone, one indication that the right person is hired is if that person is able to move on to a few years to a bigger and better job. Let's just hope its for the right reasons and not because the person was poorly managed, as Jason was, by the City Council.
re: John #3 John, you are
re: John #3 John, you are way off base with this assessment. The fact is, I did a short research of the NYS' 11 cities similar in population to Batavia [+/- 3,000]. Only 1 other city on this list [Geneva] has a City Manager, and it does have an assistant manager who is also their HR director. So in other words, ALL the other 10 "cities" are run without a "manager, and obviously no assistant manager". Plus, interestingly Batavia is the ONLY city among the 12 that DOES NOT have a Mayor.
Do you have any clue why this is? Is it because Batavia is so much smarter? Or because Batavia is so much better at management? Batavia certainly has NOT outpaced by any stretch of the imagination.
Arguably, a strong "at large" candidate is essentially the same as a Mayor. But, in Batavia we have 3 "at large" seats. This is a ridiculous abuse of the balance of power, as it is almost certain that the "at large" seats will be won by the controlling party... thus unfairly overriding the representation of the individual wards.
As Dave said #2 " we shouldn't be expected to pay $150K to manage a city of 15,000 residents"... IMO we shouldn't be paying $90K, unless and except, if the manager is doing the whole job [no assistant necessary].
Dunkirk:
Population (2010) Total 12,563
Estimate (2016) 11,940
Government
Type: Mayor+5 member Common Council
Geneva:
Population (2010) Total 13,261
Estimate (2016) 12,988
Government
Type: Mayor+8 member City Council-Manager
Oneonta:
Population (2010) Total 13,901
Estimate (2016) 13,955
Government
Type: Mayor+8 member Common Council
Olean:
Population (2010) Total 14,452
Estimate (2016) 13,794
Government
Type: Mayor+7 member Common Council
Glens Falls:
Population (2010) Total 14,700
Estimate (2016) 14,328
Government
Type: Mayor+6 member Common Council
Tonawanda:
Population (2010) Total 15,130
Estimate (2016) 14,858
Government
Type: Mayor+5 member Common Council
Batavia:
Population (2010) Total 15,465
Estimate (2016) 14,801
Government Type:
9 member City Council+Manager
Beacon:
Population (2010) Total 15,541
Estimate (2016) 14,271
Government Type:
Mayor+6 member City Council
Gloversville:
Population (2010) Total 15,665
Estimate (2016) 14,940
Government Type:
Mayor+7 member Common Council
Rye:
Population (2010) Total 15,720
Estimate (2016) 15,980
Government Type:
Mayor+6 member City Council-Manager
Cohoes:
Population (2010) Total 16,168
Estimate (2016) 16,883
Government Type:
Mayor+6 member Common Council
Lackawanna:
Population (2010) Total 18,141
Estimate (2016) 17,868
Government Type:
Mayor+5 member City Council
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_cities_in_New_York
Correction to my post #5...
Correction to my post #5... there are two other cities on the above list that have a manager [Geneva & Rye].
Also interesting, all these other cities have less "at large" positions than Batavia, and six of them have zero. I'd suggest this is something Batavia should consider revising.
Brain, nice.
Brain, nice.
But as an example, you left out that Oneonta has a Mayor (at around $54,000) and a City Manager (at about $110,000).
The At Large positions in Batavia had been looked at a number of times. It was thought that 3 At large gave people more access to Council members, along witht he 6 ward members.
OK John, so I missed one. I
OK John, so I missed one. I admittedly was going by Wikipedia and obviously it is not up-to-date on Oneonta. However, actually it appears that the Mayor of Oneonta received $12,000, and that the office was budgeted for $17,500 in 2017.
https://www.ecode360.com/documents/ON1737/public/333203341.pdf
I find that Oneonta just switched to using a manager in 2012. It would be interesting to contact them and find out what improvements [if any] a manager has reaped. I'd suggest this would be an expedient thing for the Batavia City Council to do in it's search for a new manager.
The At-large seats tend to be just extra representation for the dominant party. Think about this... in Batavia having a 9 member Council w/3 at-large seats, if 20% of the registered voters participate in an at large election, and the winners only need 50%+1, so what we get is 10% of the voters naming 1/3 of the City Council! Imagine how the voting on city council would change if we got rid of the Republican at large reps?
Also... TERM LIMITS, PLEASE.
Brian, just trying to point
Brian, just trying to point out a fast search does not tell the whole story. Glenn Falls for example has a Mayor, but also has an Assistant Mayor, a Community Development position, and Economic Development position, both with clerks, and many more jobs than here.
As for voter turn out being larger if there were 3 less Republicans, that's just stupid.
BTW John, your calling me
BTW John, your calling me Brain once again [what's this now the 6-7th time you've done it?] was it a typo(?) or is it a slick way of circumventing Howard's ban on name calling?
Brian, it was no conspiracy,
Brian, it was no conspiracy, it was a typo (again) and spell check of course does not pick that up. On the other hand-MERYY CHRISTMAS to you.
John you miss the point
John you miss the point completely. I did not suggest or imply that voter turnout would be larger... not even close. The point I made was simple. It's obvious that at-large seats [where the entire voter base can vote for] will generally be won [controlled] by the dominant party of the community. In Batavia this is predominantly Republican. Now, this is also generally the case with the separate ward voting too. But having At-large seats' primary accomplishment will be to increase the number of dominant party presence vs any minority [Democrat, Libertarian, African Americans, etc]. For example: With 9 members on City Council, if 2 members are non-Republican and the rest [7] are. the minority representation has considerably less influence than they would if there were just 4 Republican members. IMO, the 6 Ward representatives already cover the entire city and that should be all that is needed. If there is deemed a need for more representatives, then create another Ward.
For another example: With 9 members on City Council, mathematically each position represent 11% of the population. The % of blacks in the City of Batavia is near 8% and increasing [granted it's not 11% yet], but how many black members of City Council are there? [Sidebar: What % of the BPS BoE are black?]
"In 2013 Fayette County, Georgia, was ordered by a federal district court to develop single-member districts for election of members to its county council and its school board. Due to 'at-large voting', African Americans had been unable to elect any candidate of their choice to either of these boards for decades. A black candidate, for example, recently lost a Fayette County Board of Education election after receiving 99 percent support from Black voters, but securing only 15 percent from white voters."
http://atlantablackstar.com/2013/05/22/fayette-county-at-large-election…
Thanks for the Christmas wish
Thanks for the Christmas wish John, and I return the sentiment to you. FWIW I am a consummate scrooge, I don't participate in Christmas except for the children, and a limited amount at that. Happy Humbug
So, how would 2 or 3 fewer
So, how would 2 or 3 fewer Council members increase minority representation?
By increasing the potential,
By increasing the potential, for example: 2/6 vs 2/9. And at this juncture, the minority I'm referring to in this discussion of City Council, is the Democrat, Libertarian, Conservative, Independent, party's affiliates. In the recent election, if the Democrats or Libertarians were to have won one of the At-large seats, how much difference would that have made in the voting on CC with 6 of the other seats Republicans? On many/most issues very little to none. Thankfully local politics isn't as partisan as state and federal nonsense... but it's bad enough. I'm registered Republican but am very disappointed in some of our local GOP electives who are obviously not fiscally conservative, smaller government, lower taxes representatives.