I guess over a dozen intelligence agencies declaring "Russia tried to interfere with the election" just isn't enough for some people. But that's OK - the ex-kgb leader of Russia said Russia didn't, so they must not have. So sad.
All 17 US intelligence agencies concluded that the Russians attempted to influence our 2016 election and yet nearly 40% of the people that voted don’t believe that.
This amazes me.
Christ, even Fox “News” reported that story. Don’t these people READ??
There’s a mountain of evidence that there was a Russian effort to sew disinformation via social media on Facebook and Twitter.
And Brian, it could very well be that they did a creditable enough job to change just enough votes for trump to win. You do remember that Bernie Sanders wasn’t a candidate right?
What’s really interesting is that the trump “administration” has done NOTHING to secure the electoral system for the next election. He has however formed a commission to investigate the 3 million fraudulent votes that were cast (according to his nitwit self) in the last election.
Jeezus.
Perhaps a better question would be: Which candidate do you think Russia tried to help by interfering with the U.S. presidential election in 2016? 1. Donald Trump or 2. Hillary Clinton
I'm not convinced Putin had any special love for Donald Trump. Russia is on a worldwide campaign to destabilize democracies because the examples of flourishing, untroubled democracies, makes Putin's own authoritarian rule appear less legitimate to his own people.
Instability in other countries can allow him to claim to provide relative stability to his own country.
He's also a right-wing authoritarian (not a socialist) who condemns western culture.
If Hillary were to run in 2020, I wouldn't be surprised if his destabilization efforts were aimed at supporting her just because that would cause more disruption.
I'm very troubled by the people who try to minimize Russian involvement in our country elections because this isn't really about Trump or not Trump. It's about protecting our system and our way of life, which Putin would like to destroy. It seems to me, the wise course of action is to figure out exactly what happened and what steps can be taken in the future to counter those efforts.
That said, the flip side, seeming contradiction is, the U.S. should have better relations with Russia, even Putin's Russia, and all this Russia stuff just makes it harder. Too many anti-Trump people have become like neo-McCarthyites making it impossible for Trump or anybody else to deal with Russia in a constructive manner on issues like Syria and North Korea.
Russia is not an enemy. It is a rival. That should be the context of the Russian investigations and our foreign policy approaches.
Of course, Bernie was never a candidate. That's how Socialism works. You take the votes from one person (Bernie) and give them to another (Hillary). That's how elections are done in Russia and Hillary learned from the best while she was Secretary of State. Hillary and her famous reset button. Obama telling Putin, "Wait until after the elections (2012) and I'll have more flexibility," see YOUTUBE. Yes. Of course, the Russians tried to interfere with our elections, and it has been going on for years, and especially after 2012, and It is called espionage.
I agree with Howard on this. I don't think the Russians went to bat for any one candidate. They just wanted to cause problems. If they did want to help anyone, I would have bet on Hillary only because up until election night, most people thought Hillary would win.
Howard, I agree Russia is more of a rival than an enemy. However, Iran isn't and they are a sponsor of murder and terror. Obama gave Iran, our sworn enemy. 1.7 billion dollars-cash.
Actually, I think Iran could be one of our best friends in the region, and better relations would further help weaken the grip of the extremists in power. There is a large, educated, literate, moderate middle class in Iran. Trump is the best present the Mullah's ever got. They were slowly losing their grip on power and now Trump gives them the excuse to say, "see, can't trust the U.S." If you want less Iranian-sponsored terror, better relations with Iran is the best and fastest way to get there.
Iran long ago stopped being our enemy and the $1.7 billion was a legal settlement the U.S. was obligated to pay.
Our real enemy in the Middle East is Saudi Arabia, the biggest exporter of terrorism in the region, but we treat the Saudi's like best buds.
It's almost funny as we sit here discussing who our enemies are when we (the United States) are the enemy of countries and people all over the world. The U.S. has invaded countries and killed innocent people the world over. The U.S. is flying machines today, over countries on the other side of the world, killing people with the push of a button.
Makes me wonder who is the real enemy ?
There is no question Russia interfered in the 2016 election. Congress has almost unanimously voted for new sanctions against Russia in response to the election interference. How can anyone not know this?
As of today the administration is two months late in issuing guidelines for the new Russian sanctions reluctantly signed by Trump, without the usual fawning lackey applause. He was outnumbered by Congress; now he is stalling. Guess why.
One of the first things Trump did once in office was to try to lift the sanctions against Russian officials as a result of the Magnitsky Act, signed into law by President Obama in 2012. Hillary Clinton was then Secretary of State. Anyone deluded enough to think Putin would collude to get her elected needs their head checked.
Julie, just because congress votes on sanctions doesn't mean they know anything about Russia.
They all vote the way their party leader tells them, nothing more nothing less. An education is not a requirement to become a congress person. Going against the law does not disqualify a person from being a member of congress however a vote against the party leader's directive could very well end a members gravy train.
Correction: Apparently the administration has compiled a list of entities connected to Russia which are being considered for sanctions. Limping right along.
This whole Big Bad Scary Russia debate is a total dog n pony show. On the day I was born in 1951, the first thing the nurses said to me was 'Russia is our enemy'. In my 67 years since, the US has fought an almost 'endless' war with someone, somewhere, but we've never gone to war head-to-head with our 'enemy' Russia? Even when they were as close as Cuba, or we were as close as Georgia [Caucasus region], the hostilities never turned into a face-to-face war. But with the support of the hawks, if the war party in the US keeps trying they may pull it off yet. In fact they almost did in Georgia 2008. https://www.usnews.com/news/articles/2008/08/12/the-united-states-share…
It's really laughable, all this bantering about Russian meddling in the November election. How many foreign elections has the US meddled with?
BTW, here's an eye opener. Check out the list of wars the US has been involved with [keep in mind that the USA is only 240 years old]. How have we developed such a lengthy list of enemies from around the world? Speaking of enemies... notice that Russia is absent completely from the opponent column [Combatant 2] of our illustrious history of wars and warring. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wars_involving_the_United_States
How is this possible? They are our enemy.
Brian - so we were wise enough to NOT start a nuclear war with the Soviet Union. Both nations used puppet nations to do their skirmishes - meaning we did not have to pull out the big nuclear guns.
And I really don't give a rat's patootie whether we have interfered in another nation's elections in the past (we have) - THEY INTERFERED IN OURS.
Tim. When you said, "And I really don't give a rat's patootie whether we have interfered in another nation's elections in the past (we have) - THEY INTERFERED IN OURS.", isn't that (somewhat) like saying, "I don't give a rat's patootie if my kids used to hit younger children on the bus, but, I'm concerned that older kids are hitting mine."?
Yep, it is. Neither is right, and both should be stopped.
But I'll be damned if I sit there while a big bully hits a smaller bully and not do anything about it. Some might say "serves him right", and as an individual maybe that is true.
But we are NOT talking about two individuals who are bullies - we are speaking about two nations, and there are many, MANY people in America who were adversely affected by the Russian interference. In the two-bully situation, the bully getting hit is not an innocent. With the election interference there were hundreds of millions of innocents.
And for that reason, I don't give a rat's patootie what previous American administrations did when it comes to Russia interfering with our elections - there are innocent Americans that had nothing to do with previous American interference.
Now, if you want to talk about taking action against Americans who interfered in other countries' elections, I think we'd both be preaching to the choir on that one.
I guess over a dozen
I guess over a dozen intelligence agencies declaring "Russia tried to interfere with the election" just isn't enough for some people. But that's OK - the ex-kgb leader of Russia said Russia didn't, so they must not have. So sad.
So what if they did.
So what if they did. Obviously they didn't do a very good job... if they did a determinable job the Socialist Bernie would have won.
I'm not entirely sure how
I'm not entirely sure how Bernie helps Russia. You do know Russia isn't actually Communist anymore right? I heard that was a thing that happened.
All 17 US intelligence
All 17 US intelligence agencies concluded that the Russians attempted to influence our 2016 election and yet nearly 40% of the people that voted don’t believe that.
This amazes me.
Christ, even Fox “News” reported that story. Don’t these people READ??
There’s a mountain of evidence that there was a Russian effort to sew disinformation via social media on Facebook and Twitter.
And Brian, it could very well be that they did a creditable enough job to change just enough votes for trump to win. You do remember that Bernie Sanders wasn’t a candidate right?
What’s really interesting is that the trump “administration” has done NOTHING to secure the electoral system for the next election. He has however formed a commission to investigate the 3 million fraudulent votes that were cast (according to his nitwit self) in the last election.
Jeezus.
Dave is right, Bernie was not
Dave is right, Bernie was not a candidate. Hillary made sure of that.
Perhaps a better question
Perhaps a better question would be: Which candidate do you think Russia tried to help by interfering with the U.S. presidential election in 2016? 1. Donald Trump or 2. Hillary Clinton
I'm not convinced Putin had
I'm not convinced Putin had any special love for Donald Trump. Russia is on a worldwide campaign to destabilize democracies because the examples of flourishing, untroubled democracies, makes Putin's own authoritarian rule appear less legitimate to his own people.
Instability in other countries can allow him to claim to provide relative stability to his own country.
He's also a right-wing authoritarian (not a socialist) who condemns western culture.
If Hillary were to run in 2020, I wouldn't be surprised if his destabilization efforts were aimed at supporting her just because that would cause more disruption.
I'm very troubled by the people who try to minimize Russian involvement in our country elections because this isn't really about Trump or not Trump. It's about protecting our system and our way of life, which Putin would like to destroy. It seems to me, the wise course of action is to figure out exactly what happened and what steps can be taken in the future to counter those efforts.
That said, the flip side, seeming contradiction is, the U.S. should have better relations with Russia, even Putin's Russia, and all this Russia stuff just makes it harder. Too many anti-Trump people have become like neo-McCarthyites making it impossible for Trump or anybody else to deal with Russia in a constructive manner on issues like Syria and North Korea.
Russia is not an enemy. It is a rival. That should be the context of the Russian investigations and our foreign policy approaches.
Of course, Bernie was never a
Of course, Bernie was never a candidate. That's how Socialism works. You take the votes from one person (Bernie) and give them to another (Hillary). That's how elections are done in Russia and Hillary learned from the best while she was Secretary of State. Hillary and her famous reset button. Obama telling Putin, "Wait until after the elections (2012) and I'll have more flexibility," see YOUTUBE. Yes. Of course, the Russians tried to interfere with our elections, and it has been going on for years, and especially after 2012, and It is called espionage.
I agree with Howard on this.
I agree with Howard on this. I don't think the Russians went to bat for any one candidate. They just wanted to cause problems. If they did want to help anyone, I would have bet on Hillary only because up until election night, most people thought Hillary would win.
Howard, I agree Russia is
Howard, I agree Russia is more of a rival than an enemy. However, Iran isn't and they are a sponsor of murder and terror. Obama gave Iran, our sworn enemy. 1.7 billion dollars-cash.
Actually, I think Iran could
Actually, I think Iran could be one of our best friends in the region, and better relations would further help weaken the grip of the extremists in power. There is a large, educated, literate, moderate middle class in Iran. Trump is the best present the Mullah's ever got. They were slowly losing their grip on power and now Trump gives them the excuse to say, "see, can't trust the U.S." If you want less Iranian-sponsored terror, better relations with Iran is the best and fastest way to get there.
Iran long ago stopped being our enemy and the $1.7 billion was a legal settlement the U.S. was obligated to pay.
Our real enemy in the Middle East is Saudi Arabia, the biggest exporter of terrorism in the region, but we treat the Saudi's like best buds.
Yes. the Saudi's are our
Yes. the Saudi's are our enemies and don't fool yourself, so is Iran.
I like the Russian people.
I like the Russian people. When I was young I wanted to send away for one of those Russian brides.
It's almost funny as we sit
It's almost funny as we sit here discussing who our enemies are when we (the United States) are the enemy of countries and people all over the world. The U.S. has invaded countries and killed innocent people the world over. The U.S. is flying machines today, over countries on the other side of the world, killing people with the push of a button.
Makes me wonder who is the real enemy ?
I have no doubts who the real
I have no doubts who is the real enemy, and I thank our veterans and servicemen for keeping us safe.
To have peace, prepare for war! In closing, "A toast and blessing to my enemies, enemies."
There is no question Russia
There is no question Russia interfered in the 2016 election. Congress has almost unanimously voted for new sanctions against Russia in response to the election interference. How can anyone not know this?
As of today the administration is two months late in issuing guidelines for the new Russian sanctions reluctantly signed by Trump, without the usual fawning lackey applause. He was outnumbered by Congress; now he is stalling. Guess why.
One of the first things Trump did once in office was to try to lift the sanctions against Russian officials as a result of the Magnitsky Act, signed into law by President Obama in 2012. Hillary Clinton was then Secretary of State. Anyone deluded enough to think Putin would collude to get her elected needs their head checked.
Putin pulls the Puppet in chief’s strings.
Julie, just because congress
Julie, just because congress votes on sanctions doesn't mean they know anything about Russia.
They all vote the way their party leader tells them, nothing more nothing less. An education is not a requirement to become a congress person. Going against the law does not disqualify a person from being a member of congress however a vote against the party leader's directive could very well end a members gravy train.
Correction: Apparently the
Correction: Apparently the administration has compiled a list of entities connected to Russia which are being considered for sanctions. Limping right along.
This whole Big Bad Scary
This whole Big Bad Scary Russia debate is a total dog n pony show. On the day I was born in 1951, the first thing the nurses said to me was 'Russia is our enemy'. In my 67 years since, the US has fought an almost 'endless' war with someone, somewhere, but we've never gone to war head-to-head with our 'enemy' Russia? Even when they were as close as Cuba, or we were as close as Georgia [Caucasus region], the hostilities never turned into a face-to-face war. But with the support of the hawks, if the war party in the US keeps trying they may pull it off yet. In fact they almost did in Georgia 2008. https://www.usnews.com/news/articles/2008/08/12/the-united-states-share…
It's really laughable, all this bantering about Russian meddling in the November election. How many foreign elections has the US meddled with?
BTW, here's an eye opener. Check out the list of wars the US has been involved with [keep in mind that the USA is only 240 years old]. How have we developed such a lengthy list of enemies from around the world? Speaking of enemies... notice that Russia is absent completely from the opponent column [Combatant 2] of our illustrious history of wars and warring. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wars_involving_the_United_States
How is this possible? They are our enemy.
Brian - so we were wise
Brian - so we were wise enough to NOT start a nuclear war with the Soviet Union. Both nations used puppet nations to do their skirmishes - meaning we did not have to pull out the big nuclear guns.
And I really don't give a rat's patootie whether we have interfered in another nation's elections in the past (we have) - THEY INTERFERED IN OURS.
Tim. When you said, "And I
Tim. When you said, "And I really don't give a rat's patootie whether we have interfered in another nation's elections in the past (we have) - THEY INTERFERED IN OURS.", isn't that (somewhat) like saying, "I don't give a rat's patootie if my kids used to hit younger children on the bus, but, I'm concerned that older kids are hitting mine."?
Yep, it is. Neither is right
Yep, it is. Neither is right, and both should be stopped.
But I'll be damned if I sit there while a big bully hits a smaller bully and not do anything about it. Some might say "serves him right", and as an individual maybe that is true.
But we are NOT talking about two individuals who are bullies - we are speaking about two nations, and there are many, MANY people in America who were adversely affected by the Russian interference. In the two-bully situation, the bully getting hit is not an innocent. With the election interference there were hundreds of millions of innocents.
And for that reason, I don't give a rat's patootie what previous American administrations did when it comes to Russia interfering with our elections - there are innocent Americans that had nothing to do with previous American interference.
Now, if you want to talk about taking action against Americans who interfered in other countries' elections, I think we'd both be preaching to the choir on that one.