Rollover accident on Pearl Street in the city

It was not 138 Pearl Street but 178 Pearl Street.....thought you might want to correct that....

How fast were they going? Speeding. Reckless driving. Destruction.
I would venture a guess, he/she had to have been doing a high rate (55 or better) to cause that kind of damage. Why are people in a hurry to get their foot in the grave? Better yet. Why are people in a hurry to put someone else's feet in the grave??? Slow down! It's bad enough you put adults in danger... we have children out of school!

Lisa, have you had some training as an accident reconstructionist? You are assuming speeding and reckless driving factored in to this accident. Did you consider the driver may have swerved to avoid a collision with another vehicle, or an animal or person in the road?
Maybe the driver had some type of medical problem, we don't know and should not act like we do until all the facts are present.
"How fast were they going", the driver was the only person in the vehicle, and last time I checked,most vehicles allow for one operator only.There was an accident 5 or 6 years ago in almost the same spot, lots of damage, vehicle totalled, pole snapped in half, no charges filed.I would wait and see if the driver catches any charges before I assume he did anything wrong.

Lisa, have you had some training as an accident reconstructionist? You are assuming speeding and reckless driving factored in to this accident. Did you consider the driver may have swerved to avoid a collision with another vehicle, or an animal or person in the road?
Maybe the driver had some type of medical problem, we don't know and should not act like we do until all the facts are present.
"How fast were they going", the driver was the only person in the vehicle, and last time I checked,most vehicles allow for one operator only.There was an accident 5 or 6 years ago in almost the same spot, lots of damage, vehicle totalled, pole snapped in half, no charges filed.I would wait and see if the driver catches any charges before I assume he did anything wrong.

Lisa, have you had some training as an accident reconstructionist? You are assuming speeding and reckless driving factored in to this accident. Did you consider the driver may have swerved to avoid a collision with another vehicle, or an animal or person in the road?
Maybe the driver had some type of medical problem, we don't know and should not act like we do until all the facts are present.
"How fast were they going", the driver was the only person in the vehicle, and last time I checked,most vehicles allow for one operator only.There was an accident 5 or 6 years ago in almost the same spot, lots of damage, vehicle totalled, pole snapped in half, no charges filed.I would wait and see if the driver catches any charges before I assume he did anything wrong.

Lisa, have you had some training as an accident reconstructionist? You are assuming speeding and reckless driving factored in to this accident. Did you consider the driver may have swerved to avoid a collision with another vehicle, or an animal or person in the road?
Maybe the driver had some type of medical problem, we don't know and should not act like we do until all the facts are present.
"How fast were they going", the driver was the only person in the vehicle, and last time I checked,most vehicles allow for one operator only.There was an accident 5 or 6 years ago in almost the same spot, lots of damage, vehicle totalled, pole snapped in half, no charges filed.I would wait and see if the driver catches any charges before I assume he did anything wrong.

Lisa, have you had some training as an accident reconstructionist? You are assuming speeding and reckless driving factored in to this accident. Did you consider the driver may have swerved to avoid a collision with another vehicle, or an animal or person in the road?
Maybe the driver had some type of medical problem, we don't know and should not act like we do until all the facts are present.
"How fast were they going", the driver was the only person in the vehicle, and last time I checked,most vehicles allow for one operator only.There was an accident 5 or 6 years ago in almost the same spot, lots of damage, vehicle totalled, pole snapped in half, no charges filed.I would wait and see if the driver catches any charges before I assume he did anything wrong.

Double post?????

Wow, now it posted a third and fourth time, no clue if its my pc or the site, strange, I hit save once only.

Frank, I'm not, nor was I ever, an accident reconstructionist; however, my 27 years in the volunteer fire and EMS service in dealing MVAs tells me Lisa has one of the three factors she suggests as a mitigating cause of this roll over.

Speed!

Ray, I'm just saying that Lisa was assuming a lot, like I said, there was an accident 5-6 years ago in that same stretch,and the damage looked worse than this, no charges were filed to the best of my knowledge.I'm curious as to what makes you so sure speed was a factor.

Ray, I'm just saying that Lisa was assuming a lot, like I said, there was an accident 5-6 years ago in that same stretch,and the damage looked worse than this, no charges were filed to the best of my knowledge.I'm curious as to what makes you so sure speed was a factor.

Must have a problem on my end, double post, and posted before I hit save.

Actually Frank, I've seen enough MVA's scenes during my time in the Fire/EMS field in both New York and Atlanta, Ga. In total 19 years. However, I never claimed to be an investigator for accidents. Nor have I played one on TV. Had there been a medical emergency, do you not think this person would have been transported to the hospital?

As Ray had stated, I was merely stating my opinion on the factors. Thank you Ray. I knew someone who has been in the field would understand. Assessing the scene. It's part of the job.

You don`t flip vehicles over like that going 30!! Speed as a cause looks like a no-brainer.

Would anyone like to place a wager or whether or not a speeding ticket gets issued or not?
I'm betting against it.SUV's are top heavy and if you swerve to avoid a collision, they have been known to go over.Jim, it was a rollover, not a flip, learn to read.

It looks more like a van than an SUV to me but I could be wrong. Regardless, a 30 mph dead center hit on a utility pole isn't likely to flip it over on its side so add me to the "over 30" crowd here.

You can bet your bottom dollar that if the driver is related to or knows "somebody" it's not likely they're going to get a ticket anyhow, so that's a moot point.

Frank, "Would anyone like to place a wager or whether or not a speeding ticket gets issued or not?" Unless you caused this accident yourself, you were there or you have some inside knowledge- you're still going to lose. Those pictures do not lie.

If you blow up the pictures (ZOOM), maybe you could tell more. You can see where he plowed a mailbox, there is a tree sheered off. Observe this: The tree is sheered. Look at the undercarriage of the vehicle. The folding of the car shows he directly impacted the tree BEFORE the vehicle flipped. There are several red flags.

So, as far as your "wager", save your money.

"Would anyone like to place a wager or whether or not a speeding ticket gets issued or not?"

Speeding ticket? No. Cop(s) did not witness the crash, nor did they use a laser to determine speed prior to the crash.

However, a ticket for speed not prudent for road conditions? That's a possibility.

My point was that Lisa assumes a lot, calling someone reckless without facts is wrong.
A 30-35 mile an hour crash can cause some serious damage once the vehicle is out of control.You can't tell how fast this vehicle was going by a photo, you are guessing, thats why the police have not issued a ticket, no proof.Assumption and speculation do not equal facts, that doesn't change because you are an emt or vol.firefighter
Ed, vans are built on the same chassis as sport utility vehicles and some ins.companies classify them the same.
Ray and Lisa, thank you for volunteering your time, I do appreciate our emt's and vol.firefigters.

Like I said, it looks like a no brainer that speed is a factor. Vehicles driving 30 mph are not going to roll, flip, or any other way you want to put it Frank! It is pretty safe to assume some recklessness took place here. Nobody`s rights are getting violated here like you usually whine about. You say we are all wrong to assume speeding was involved but its ok for you to ASSUME that speed wasn`t?

I went to where this happened because "curiosity" got the better of me. Oh and I happened to be going this way. :)

Fact. The vehicle hit a mailbox, what used to look like a fire hydrant and then proceeded to hit a pole. The pole had to be replaced. There is police lines where they had marked where the car had been ( it was in blue) Oh, and if you go out Pearl about 600 yrds (give or take) the 55 mph starts. Now, I can't tell you if he/she was coming into town or leaving. The way the picture looks, I'd say he/she would have been leaving. Which now I AM assuming he/she crossed over. Now, you can jump on me for the ASSuming part.

Thank you for the compliment also Frank.

Jim Urtel Jr. It is NOT a no brainer at all just an assumption on your part. suv's especially the ones marketed to soccer moms and college students aren't wide enough to keep from rolling over even at low speeds. Jeep cj-7 and ford broncos had this problem specifically.

Now, look again at the force acting between the tire tread and the center-of-gravity of the vehicle (in red). This force is at an angle which has a horizontal component proportional in length to half the track of the vehicle. It also has a vertical component that is exactly proportional to the height of the center-of-gravity above the roadway. We KNOW both of these distances! Therefore, the angle at the CG (which we have been calling θ), between the red and green lines, is the angle whose TANGENT is equal to (Height of the CG)/(half the track). In the case of this example, that vertical side is 30" and half-the-track is also 30". This means that the angle we have been describing has a tangent of 30/30 or 1.000, and so our angle θ is 45°.

Since we now know the angle θ in the triangles we have been dealing with, we can do the final calculations. Using the specific dimensions (tread track and center-of-gravity height) of ANY vehicle, it is therefore VERY easy to quickly calculate at what speed it would roll over! No "expert", from Ford or anyone else, could possibly get away with testifying in court that he "does not know!"

We have already determined that the actual lifting force on the center of gravity of the vehicle is the centripetal force times the tangent of that angle, in other words in our example, 3400 pounds times 1.000 or 3400 pounds vertical lifting effect!

Now, since the vehicle only weighs 3200 pounds, there is only 3200 pounds of gravitational force holding the vehicle down, and so this 3400 pound lifting force is enough to lift it up and roll it over. Our example vehicle would roll over in making that moderate turn at just 20 mph!

That's all there is to the calculations! This is actually all way easier to do in math, than the very comprehensive way we felt necessary to present it here so that full and deep understanding might be had. Doing these calculations a second time should only take a minute or two! If the resultant vertical lifting force is less than the weight of the vehicle, it will not roll over; if it is more, it is certain to roll over.

In our example, at just 20 mph, our SUV vehicle would roll over when trying to turn in our 25-foot radius circle!

Look for yourself... http://mb-soft.com/public/rollover.html

I've never known an SUV to have a spoiler on it. I may just be a "dumb female". But my Daddy did teach this "dumb female" to look at the whole picture. This is a car with a spoiler and trunk. I've waited to hear somebody say this. Just saying.

Jim, No where have I said speed wasn't a factor, I only said at this point is is an assumption, but given your inability to read and comprehend anything, your comment comes as no surprise.

I can read and comprehend anything Frank obviously much better than you. What is no surprise is the fact that whenever the law might be involved you are strictly against that. Kyle, they were traveling in a straight line, not making turns. Everyone is entitled to their opinion and I`ll stick to the most obvious that speed was a factor!

Jim, not sure what meds you are on, but my comments have nothing to do with the law, so again, please learn to read and comprehend, and I never claimed anyone wasn't entitled to their opinion.There was only the driver in the vehicle Jim, there's that comprehension problem again.At any rate you have no clue as to whether that vehicle swerved or not.Again Jim, I never denied speed as a factor, was just suggesting other possibilities, but with your limited level of comprehension, I can see why you twist up the story due to your failed reading abilities.

Jim, why don't you find some other line when you make your useless attempts at insulting me about my rights. I can read and comprehend, I also know my rights, and I am not afraid to exercise those rights where ever and when ever it becomes neccessary.If you call that whining, that says a lot about you, not me. When someone says jump, I don't ask how high,I ask why, just a non sheeple, unlike yourself.

To Lisa Woltz (re your comment #25)
Loved the WHOLE comment.
Somewhere around the 3rd or 4th time I looked at the pics of the vehicle, I noticed the spoiler. But, then, BLAM, totally dismissed it as being relevant.
While I'd (personally) be reluctant to say that SUV's never have spoilers, I can 100% say that I don't recall noticing any.
I think you've hit the nail on the head.

Guess it can be said that, not only does it have a spoiler on the rear, but, there's spoilage to the front and 2 sides, also.

Jim,Frank does have an issue with authority, particularly the police. I would call him a whiny douchebag, but that is against the rules. So I won't :)

The problem I had Jim is that you assumed a couple of things. One you asserted that no vehicle can roll over at 30 mph. I disproved that soundly.

Two you said the vehicle didn't swerve yet judging from the photos something either a medical event or trying to avoid something in the road caused the driver to lose control and cross over to hit these objects. Obviously the vehicle was level when it hit the pole but crumple zones and such can make the speed seem much more than it might have been. Thats why they investigate these things.

You are right everyone is entitled to their opinions but, it's rather arrogant to assume that your opinions are the most valid and making assumptions.

I agree that speed could have been a factor, but isnt this part of pearl st that goes up to 55 mph as the speed limit? So 55 wouldn't be an unreasonable speed.

Bud,I don't have a problem with authority, only abuse of authority, and I 'd call you a trash talking chump hiding behind a keyboard, but its against the rules.
All I tried to say was there are other possibilities in this accident,so rather than assume the driver was reckless, or speeding, or was doing anything wrong, I simply suggested other possibilities. B

Again,comment posted before finished,?????I have used numerous apps to make sure my pc is running properly, so I don't believe it is happening at my end.Ed Hargrave noticed irregularities with posts as well.Must be glitches with the site.
Bud, bet your stones would shrink face to face.That should have been the last sentence in my post #33.

No sir, there would be no shrinking. and it seems your interactions with "the system" are always set up against you. That sounds paranoid to me. JMO.Meet you for coffee anytime. :)

Hey Bud, can I be the moderator?

Any and all would be welcome, Michael :)

Quit while your ahead Frank but I doubt you would have such a big mouth in person! No sense in turning it into a schoolyard brawl but if ever there were 2 guys who think that they are never wrong its Frank and Kyle. Don`t worry, you 2 guys have the keyboard championship still!

Same old, same old...some things never change. Frank still acting all pissed-off, superior with his "learn to read and comprehend" line from 2011. Childishness is alive and well in good ole Batavia! Bravo!

No n

Oh no, he ran out of letters!!!!

Lorie why don't you go do what you do best, have a drink.

Frank, why don't you grow up and act like an adult. Nothing but a crybaby, bully.

Just an observation; I'd say the horse is dead. It's been dead so long most of it has been shipped out, labeled glue.

Hey Frank... try replacing your keyboard. You seem to be the ONLY one having this particular problem and sticking keys have been known to cause things like that.

I'd also suggest you stop eating and/or drinking over your new one, which is usually the cause of keys getting "sticky".

Ed, this is the only site it happens on.Go back and look at the order some repllies are in, I think the site is glitched.I can't answer poll questions either.I eat and drink in the kitchen as I was taught many years ago.Ed Hargrave pointed out some issues as well.

Now, now. Everyone play nice in the sandbox.

Lorie, stop trolling,its a bad habit.