Little League back in hots and pizza business

It shouldn't have taken this sort of action to resolve what was a heavy-handed, over lording, governmental excess. We're talking about the Little League here... ya know local kids engaged in wholesome activity, and the supporting concessions that help fund the operation. I WONDER IF THE COUNTY HEALTH DEPT GOON WHO AGREED TO SERVE THE SHUTDOWN NOTICE, SLEEPS WELL... THEY SHOULDN'T!!!!!!

Brian, I'm sure whoever issued the shutdown notice is sleeping just fine.

I heard on channel 2 news last night that the permit fees was paid for by Ficarella's Pizza since they're the ones who donate the pizza to the little league. The little league is probably happy they don't have to come up with the money themselves for the fees.

The Little League concession stand was warned last year that they needed a permit and the Health Dept. let them continue. They were reminded again this year they needed a permit......so there was no heavy handed action Brian......

Thumbs up Anne

Yep... the blind leading the blind.

Why do people stand for this type of bullying. What would have happened if you just DIDNT listen. Sell pizza and stuff anyway, let them arrest you, let 500 parents show up in court supporting you. Show the authority that the only reason they have the power to tell you what you may and may not do is because YOU GIVE THEM THE POWER. Take it back. The police show up, the parents and kids surround the concession stand. What are they going to do, beat parents and children? Better yet, next time, stop selling pizza, and sell a napkin for $3, each napkin comes with a free slice of pizza, or hotdog. Nope, lets cave to the bully and pay $175. Just so you all know, you paid the bully to bully you. Because your tax dollars pay his salary. Every time some small thing like this just rolls over and capitulates, the government takes a little more from you.

Right on Christopher. Let them make an arrest for such an unreasonable, unpopular issue. Find the right attorney, demand a jury trial and work for a jury nullification of the charge. There really is 4 arms of Checks and Balances, but for a long time the government has tried to hide the fourth one. It's Jury Nullification.

http://www.jurybox.org/

Actually, I think Christopher might've hit upon the answer.
"Better yet, next time, stop selling pizza, and sell a napkin for $3, each napkin comes with a free slice of pizza, or hotdog."

As the 2 old guys in the beer commercial would've said, "Sell a $3 napkin and give away a hot dog. BRILLIANT!"

I, for one, now feel so much safer that my slice of pizza, or my hot dog purchased at the little league stand is safe to eat because the county robbed them for $175.
That is the only change in all of this, reminds me of the protection rackets the mob used to run.

Okay, let's dump the health Dept. And the first person who "claims" or in actuality gets sick from food at an event, tough. They can sue the Little League for emotional and physical stress, actually the individuals cooking could be sued in civil court. Folks, especially Brian, these laws have been brought on by past lawsuits. People have demanded that the food they buy anywhere is safe. Libertarian leanings are nice, but not realistic in all cases.

Did having a health dept stop the people in the town of batavia from having contaminated wells last year from farmers spreading manure..Also why were they charged 175 for a permit when they are only open for a few months a year..why not pro rate it..

I happen to trust that this concession stand has no reason to want it's customers to get sick. Removing $175 from the economy for a piece of paper ( a permit) I'm certain doesn't make people safer.

"Libertarian leanings are nice, but not realistic in all cases." I would say statist
leanings are unrealistic.

"Libertarian leanings are nice, but not realistic in all cases." I would say statist
leanings are in some cases unrealistic but always enforced with threats of violence.

I suppose if the people would prefer that permits and inspections were fee-less, the Health Department budget could be adjusted upward so taxpayers shoulder the cost.

Anne; does buying this permit absolve the little league from responsibility? That's rhetorical, of course it does not. The $175 bought the league noting, but protection from harassment. Your argument there is weak. In fact, no one except you mentioned dumping the health dept. Self-righteous indignation and accusing those of a different opinion of taking an extreme position, when in fact no one did is also the sign of a weak argument.

With regard to Libertarians, I do not presume to speak for anyone but myself; but as a Libertarian, I do not want to do away with the health dept. I think they serve an important function, its just that in this particular instance, they overreached and ignored common sense. Public opinion seems to agree. Why couldn't they issue a set of guidelines and have groups like churches and little leagues self-report compliance. If they have questions or problems, then someone could come and help, not threaten and demand. The burden of responsibility would be the same as it is now. As Terry says, i trust people to do the right thing, most of us don't need a county employee looking over our shoulder to verify it. And none of us can afford the skyrocketing cost of all this nannyness. The proper role of government is to empower people to pursue happiness and protect individual rights.

CM, permits for commercial business, sorta OK if you have to. Permits for non-profit fundraisers, No. Self-inspection for non-profits. Voluntary inspections for commercial business. Could be done by a private firm for a fee. Private firms can voluntarily be sanctioned by the county health dept. If i owned a restaurant, I would surely pay for a regular inspection from a reputable, county sanctioned firm and would display the certificate prominently, I would advertise the fact and have it on my menus. That would necessarily adjust the health dept budget downward and taxes should be lowered accordingly.

We are so well trained to expect that "the government" will keep us safe from every potential problem, that a good many of us refuse to even imagine a country with less regulation and control. That is truly sad. What if Health department inspections were optional? Don't want one? Don't get one. Those willing to pay 175 dollars to the health compartment in return for a certificate of compliance could display it proudly. Those establishments content to police themselves just wouldn't get the government seal of approval to display. Don't want to buy a slice of pizza from an establishment that doesn't pay off the tax collector? Well, eat somewhere else then.

It seems to me that the general consensus here is that the health dept is a good thing and should be maintained. Depending on what degree it's authority extends, I may or may not agree. So, if the majority of society [the community] feel this way then I guess the GCHD should be funded by the community, most likely via taxes collected, and an additional burden [fee] should not be levied on the individuals that society has deemed need to be controlled [certified acceptable]. Just like in so many other instances of government over-reach... the pre-emption mindset violates individual liberty. An individual should have the right to sell food, without any government intervention until he harms another in the process. The people should have responsibility to decide what, and from whom, they buy.

Here a question: How does the Health Dept control raw eggs?

"Those willing to pay 175 dollars to the health compartment in return for a certificate of compliance could display it proudly."

Food service establishments are required to display their food service license in a conspicuous location for the general public to see.

Isn't the taxpayer covering the way it should be? After all who is requiring that the health dept protect them and put it's stamp of approval? It's not the vendors. My immediate answer would be the people [society]... but then again would the majority of the people in our society truly agree to wanting this if they knew that they were paying for it? Furthermore, what if the majority of the people in our society didn't want this, would it make any difference? I doubt it, because the handful of "representatives" really don't care what the majority of the people want... they are the "enlightened one", who, once put in office, decide what the people need.

Yep... don't reign in the out of control legislators, just figure out who to make pay for what they decide needs to be. How many people ever stop and contemplate why most politicians, after they get elected, act like their job is to get as many new laws passed as they can???!!!!!!

"How does the Health Dept control raw eggs?"

Intact shell eggs shall be stored at an ambient temperature of 45 degrees F or below.

Eggs are to be heated to 145 degrees Fahrenheit or greater unless an individual consumer requests preparation of a shell egg or food containing shell eggs in a style such as raw, poached or fried which must be prepared at a temperature less than 145 degrees Fahrenheit in order to comply with the request.

Yea, and I bet you look for it and make damn sure it's there before you buy any food. And if it's not there I bet you report it to John Roach.

Have you never been to a restaurant where the eggs are stacked in 12 dozen crates near the grill? How close to 45 degrees do you guess the temp is in that environment? And then "unless an individual consumer requests preparation of a shell egg or food containing shell eggs in a style such as raw"... !

Yea, yea, yea... and we have to pay a government agency to tell us this crap???

"We are so well trained to expect that "the government" will keep us safe from every potential problem, that a good many of us refuse to even imagine a country with less regulation and control. That is truly sad. What if Health department inspections were optional?"

You might check out the Mexican hinterlands. (Skip the regulated places where the tourists go.) Montezuma's opportunity?

"Those establishments content to police themselves just wouldn't get the government seal of approval to display."

Nor much business, after a couple of bacterial outbreaks. Puts one at a competitive disadvantage. But penny wise, pound foolish, can be a small price to pay ideologically, as we race to the bottom.

It's truly amazing to think that my grandparents, [who came to the USA from Italy, Ireland and Scotland] all were able to raise crops and animals [for meat/milk/eggs], and were able to keep everyone in the family from dying from contaminated food without directions from the Depts of Health and Agriculture!!! How were they EVER able to do that?

Brian, still not willing to step up and tell us how you will defy the law? Still all talk. Again, so easy for you to tell others what they should do, but dare not do it yourself.

Pizza. Hot dogs. Where did the eggs enter the little league stand? Really.

Can't remember the words verbatim, "Eggs stacked by the grill"- It's true. Used to work right there and watch in several restaurants I've worked for. I bet you could walk into any given Waffle House, Huddle House or heck let's just take a look at your neighborhood sub shop and see how "cold" your prep is (veg 45-55- meat 41-45 deg. Even in your convenience stores food isn't necessarily shipped out at the temp it's supposed to be kept at (45 deg or below) albeit eggs are supposed to be also. As long as the health inspector isn't coming around.... nothing is going to be done. This customer, won't be staying.

Next time your out, take a good look at the food your purchasing from the store. Is it really fresh? I'd rather go to the farmer's market. At least I'll know what I'm getting and no chemicals added to my eggs, veggies, fruit (I have it sent to me from Florida) and meat.

It's pizza and hot dogs for crying out loud. Not Steak, potatoes and salad. This isn't a ritzy restaurant. It's kids having fun and enjoying what they love best. Why does it have to be about the almighty dollar! Geez

There ya go again, Scott straight off the rails right to the most extreme outpost of a point you can get to. Yeah, without health dept over regulation we will turn into rural Mexico. Geesh, do ya ever step back and listen to yourself?

Also, you made Jim's point for him, in a society without strong arm health reg's, the free market will determine which restaurants and food concessions survive. Not the gub'ment. Pretty simple.

Rural Mexico, Baja Batavia, viva la revolution bang bang LOL

"Scott straight off the rails right to the most extreme outpost of a point you can get to."

Hardly the most extreme. There are delightful places in the Mexican interior, it's just caveat emptor on the food. You trust free markets, I trust judicious regulation. Let history be your guide.

Actually Europeans don't refrigerate their eggs. It's an American thing to do so.

"It's pizza and hot dogs for crying out loud."

Both of which are, or contain items that are, a PHF.

"Have you never been to a restaurant where the eggs are stacked in 12 dozen crates near the grill? "

I don't know of any restaurant that even orders 12 dozen crates of eggs at one time.

One or two flats near the flat top, maybe, but usually not more than that, and they are not right next to the flat top, but close enough to it.

Restaurants I've cooked in, the eggs were in the line cooler behind me when I was facing the flat top.

"Take it back. The police show up, the parents and kids surround the concession stand. What are they going to do, beat parents and children?"

Only thing wrong with your over-dramatization, it's not a crime, only a violation, and only a fine would be assessed.

Really?!?!? let history be my guide? OK, be mindful of what you wish for my friend. Historically as stronger and stronger government regulations have taken hold in New York State and agencies (such as county health departments) have gained more and more power which has necessarily increased the size and cost of government which causes higher taxes to be stolen from the populace; the actual wealth producing population of New York State has been plummeting and continues to do so. Business has relocated and retirees leave as soon as they can sell the old homestead.
Historical fact, very easy to correlate. I say give freedom a chance, we haven't had true free markets for 102 years, lets give it a shot.

Yep, you got me Ray. I misspoke when I said "crates" rather than "flats"... you are right... I stand corrected. And that settles it. But, You didn't win... I quit.

The fact that a grammatical misstep surely must outweigh the erroneous claim that the health dept requires raw eggs be kept at 45 degrees or less, is enough for me to say "see ya". Find someone else who will tolerate your endless political correctness. It Ain't Me.

Scott, you say you trust judicious regulation. To me that is equivalent to saying that you have relinquished your liberty and personal responsibility to the government. That of course is your option... I strongly disagree.

BTW, I believe that many people who [not even knowing what they have done] have decided to trust judicious regulation to the extent that they don't pay attention, get involved, or vote! Just sayin'.

John you are wrong, I don't tell others what to do. I stated what I thought should be done based on what I would have done were I in charge. So, if your fancy mouthpiece has eminence in our community, you get me appointed to be in charge of the LLCS and yes I would not comply!

BUT, right now I'm telling you to buzz off... you arrogant, condescending, Loyalist.

Oh damn... there I go again, telling someone what to do. Haha

There's another one for your buddy Howard to take down...

Yes, but this doesn't matter to PC experts like John Roach and Raymond Richardson.

"OK, be mindful of what you wish for my friend."

There's no question that regulation can go too far; I think the Little League kerfuffle might be an example. I don't have all the information, but my sense of it was an over-reaching regulation that came to threaten a very good thing. But there are ways in a democratic society to address such grievances. Some are too impatient to do so, and would rather tear down the entire edifice of regulatory structure. And yet somehow I doubt even the most ardent Libertarian would board an airliner without the overweening regulation from the FAA. And I, for one, would rather eat at a restaurant that's meet the standards of the "powerful' health department. I'm not sure what freedom is lost in that, unless we're nostalgic for the heyday of cholera.

"Historical fact, very easy to correlate. I say give freedom a chance, we haven't had true free markets for 102 years, lets give it a shot."

There's a reason for that. Your timeline correlates nicely with the Triangle Shirtwaist Factory fire. Corporate greed, both human and capital, inevitable in an unfettered marketplace, is what generates and sustains regulation. It's true there is a cost to regulation, but there's a dividend as well: a more stable marketplace. You mention 102 years ago -- compare the magnitude of the economy then and now. Historical fact.

I'll just sit here and laugh. You guys are a riot for nit picking the heck out of every- single- sentence.

I will go and enjoy my hot dog and pizza, with a coke. This conversation has went from little league to Supermarket.

Good night

I was not wrong. You said they should break the law, but you come up with excuses to dodge doing it yourself. Always easy to say what others should do. Cheap talk from the cheap seats. Man up and do a fundraiser for some group where you resell food as the league does like the pizza. (Call it the Brian Graz bail fund) . Then publically announce you will break the Health Law. Show us how it is done. I am sure you don't need to be a member of the LLCS to show us all how it is done. Then, if taken to court, you show us how you would fight it at your jury trail. Stop beating your chest and step up. Start walking the walk.

Loyalist? Where did you come up with that?
And Howard is my "buddy"? Another Graz lie?

"And that settles it. But, You didn't win... I quit."

Were we competing for something?

"To me that is equivalent to saying that you have relinquished your liberty and personal responsibility to the government."

No, Brian. It just means I don't want my dinner to kill me.

http://www.greatamericanjobsscam.com/chapter-2.pdf
http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/03/08/us-usa-retirees-idUSBRE82714G…
https://thehobbesian.wordpress.com/2013/08/21/regulations-are-good-for-…