I am wondering what the cost comparison is between the grants students are given now for college which aren't paid back and the cost of 2 years at community college. Also if it were to happen, it should not include the cost for someone to attend a community college out of state. You should only be able to get this if you stay local.
Cost per semester at MCC is just over $1700, or $3400 per year, for a total of $6800 for a 2 year tuition, for a NYS resident, as compared to $3416 a semester for non-NYS residents, or $13664 for a 2 year tuition, not including the small, less than $10, fees added for each semester.
A program put in place for full time workers, earning less than $10/hr with good attendance at work, that pays tuition only, so long as they keep working I could get behind.
So basically you're saying the graduating H.S. seniors are left out of this, by your theory, because they can't meet the full time employment requirement?
Heart's in the right place, just a bad idea is all.
I was actually thinking more along the lines of, maintaining a GPA of 3.5 or higher to qualify for the free two year tuition.
No, because not everyone is college material and it's not what America needs.
Two years of trade school, however, makes a lot of sense to me. A young person learns an actual skill then commits to use it for a period of time in return for the government-provided tuition.
If Pres Obama would've introduced 2 years of mandatory, paid community service after high school, I'd heavily support him. Military, Peace Corps, any kind of public service that would expose a young person to America, teach some Americanism, demonstrate how to get along with others, and result in a good citizen.
I think there needs to be more and better affordable access to continuing education after high school. However, the problem with this idea is that subsidies typically raise the price of everything around it. That is already evident by the cost of college skyrocketing in the face of government subsidized financing. So the next 2 years of college will cost yet more than they do now and nothing will have been solved. Also, it will dilute the value of an associates degree.
Nothing is free, it has to balance somehow.
Nothing is free. This has to be paid for somehow, and we cannot pay for what we spend now. We are in debt up to our great grandkids ears.
And like so many well meaning programs, it will spiral out of control. And why should only groups picked by the government get it for free? That is just plain not fair on the face of it.
If a HS senior get a job and works full time over the summer, they would qualify. There is no exclusion. I am for helping people who work hard, not giving people a hand out.
It's not the only cause, but surely a contributing factor. The rise of administration is probably the biggest reason, same as in public schools. Government mandates, affirmative action reporting and accounting related to accepting government grants and subsidized loans helped that to happen. Not to mention the arrogance of college faculty in believing they are above such menial bourgeois tasks without any thought of how more underlings would get paid.
So, like most anything else connected with government, the cause of high costs is bureaucracy, politics and poor fiscal stewardship.
True, but I think it's important to remember that student loans, just like the GI Bill, aren't handouts. They're government backed loans that no form of bankruptcy can forgive. The post war (WW II) prosperity fueled a burgeoning middle class such as the world had never seen before, and the government played no small role in the transition from a full-production war economy to the consumer economy we still, for the most part, enjoy today.
I voted no...If you want a higher education put some of your own money out..You go to two years of college and fail who should bear that cost.... The government would like to have you from the age of 3 {UPK}up until the age of 20 {2 years of college}all on the taxpayers dime..The people who have no children really lose out....Boon for teachers unions, loss for taxpayers..
Dangling free tuition to a community college is politics- pure and simple. The real issue is student loans, usurious rates and the inability to pay them back. Obama, for the sake of his Wall Street banker-buddies, won't re-invent the higher education loan system. Offering a student intent on a prestigious law or medical degree two years, free, at MCC is... I like Jerry's idea describing a quid pro quo; something that benefits both the recipient, the provider and the community. These corporations that receive corporate welfare: why not a provision that they open up internships as part of the qualification for tax breaks and grants?
Let's see if anybody likes this idea......... How about making student loans interest free? The money lent is yours and mine to begin with. We lend money to the student for tuition. The student gets an education , goes to work and pays back what they borrowed. I think we would all benefit from the education we invest in.
I am wondering what the cost
I am wondering what the cost comparison is between the grants students are given now for college which aren't paid back and the cost of 2 years at community college. Also if it were to happen, it should not include the cost for someone to attend a community college out of state. You should only be able to get this if you stay local.
Cost per semester at MCC is
Cost per semester at MCC is just over $1700, or $3400 per year, for a total of $6800 for a 2 year tuition, for a NYS resident, as compared to $3416 a semester for non-NYS residents, or $13664 for a 2 year tuition, not including the small, less than $10, fees added for each semester.
A program put in place for
A program put in place for full time workers, earning less than $10/hr with good attendance at work, that pays tuition only, so long as they keep working I could get behind.
But I don't want to create grades 13 and 14.
So basically you're saying
So basically you're saying the graduating H.S. seniors are left out of this, by your theory, because they can't meet the full time employment requirement?
Heart's in the right place, just a bad idea is all.
I was actually thinking more along the lines of, maintaining a GPA of 3.5 or higher to qualify for the free two year tuition.
No, because not everyone is
No, because not everyone is college material and it's not what America needs.
Two years of trade school, however, makes a lot of sense to me. A young person learns an actual skill then commits to use it for a period of time in return for the government-provided tuition.
If Pres Obama would've introduced 2 years of mandatory, paid community service after high school, I'd heavily support him. Military, Peace Corps, any kind of public service that would expose a young person to America, teach some Americanism, demonstrate how to get along with others, and result in a good citizen.
I think there needs to be
I think there needs to be more and better affordable access to continuing education after high school. However, the problem with this idea is that subsidies typically raise the price of everything around it. That is already evident by the cost of college skyrocketing in the face of government subsidized financing. So the next 2 years of college will cost yet more than they do now and nothing will have been solved. Also, it will dilute the value of an associates degree.
Nothing is free, it has to balance somehow.
Nothing is free. This has to
Nothing is free. This has to be paid for somehow, and we cannot pay for what we spend now. We are in debt up to our great grandkids ears.
And like so many well meaning programs, it will spiral out of control. And why should only groups picked by the government get it for free? That is just plain not fair on the face of it.
If a HS senior get a job and
If a HS senior get a job and works full time over the summer, they would qualify. There is no exclusion. I am for helping people who work hard, not giving people a hand out.
The value of an associates is
The value of an associates is about the same as a high school diploma at this point.
"That is already evident by
"That is already evident by the cost of college skyrocketing in the face of government subsidized financing."
But is that the cause of the skyrocketing costs, Dave? Government has been financing higher education since the GI Bill of Rights of 1944.
And really, prior to WW II,
And really, prior to WW II, college was really for the privileged elite.
It's not the only cause, but
It's not the only cause, but surely a contributing factor. The rise of administration is probably the biggest reason, same as in public schools. Government mandates, affirmative action reporting and accounting related to accepting government grants and subsidized loans helped that to happen. Not to mention the arrogance of college faculty in believing they are above such menial bourgeois tasks without any thought of how more underlings would get paid.
So, like most anything else connected with government, the cause of high costs is bureaucracy, politics and poor fiscal stewardship.
True, but I think it's
True, but I think it's important to remember that student loans, just like the GI Bill, aren't handouts. They're government backed loans that no form of bankruptcy can forgive. The post war (WW II) prosperity fueled a burgeoning middle class such as the world had never seen before, and the government played no small role in the transition from a full-production war economy to the consumer economy we still, for the most part, enjoy today.
I voted no...If you want a
I voted no...If you want a higher education put some of your own money out..You go to two years of college and fail who should bear that cost.... The government would like to have you from the age of 3 {UPK}up until the age of 20 {2 years of college}all on the taxpayers dime..The people who have no children really lose out....Boon for teachers unions, loss for taxpayers..
I never said they were
I never said they were handouts, I am claiming that government subsidies breed inefficiency.
I know, Dave. I was just
I know, Dave. I was just making my own point and emphasis. As a liberal I can't help myself, but you know that.
I have hopes for you yet,
I have hopes for you yet, Grasshopper. Just let the kool-aid be.
Open the pod bay doors,
Open the pod bay doors, Dave . . .
:>)
:>)
[video:www.youtube.com/watch?v=OuEN5TjYRCE]
Dangling free tuition to a
Dangling free tuition to a community college is politics- pure and simple. The real issue is student loans, usurious rates and the inability to pay them back. Obama, for the sake of his Wall Street banker-buddies, won't re-invent the higher education loan system. Offering a student intent on a prestigious law or medical degree two years, free, at MCC is... I like Jerry's idea describing a quid pro quo; something that benefits both the recipient, the provider and the community. These corporations that receive corporate welfare: why not a provision that they open up internships as part of the qualification for tax breaks and grants?
"The real issue is student
"The real issue is student loans, usurious rates and the inability to pay them back."
Yes.
"I like Jerry's idea describing a quid pro quo; something that benefits both the recipient, the provider and the community."
And yes again.
As Jerry noted - not
As Jerry noted - not everybody is "college material"... So the 2-year education should include trade schools as well.
Let's see if anybody likes
Let's see if anybody likes this idea......... How about making student loans interest free? The money lent is yours and mine to begin with. We lend money to the student for tuition. The student gets an education , goes to work and pays back what they borrowed. I think we would all benefit from the education we invest in.
That is a very good
That is a very good suggestion David Spaulding.
That gets my vote,
That gets my vote, David. Along with Jerry and Tim's inclusion of trade school.
Interest-free student loans.
Interest-free student loans. Eminently sensible.