It would be difficult to reconcile the concept of demanding full disclosure in some instances and insisting on repression in others. Many argue that it has the potential of harming the families but information is a commodity that one chooses whether or not to consume. In this particular case the disclosure has the potential to serve purposes both positive and negative. There were growing reports that the police response was inadequate, bungled, and slow leading to conjecture of lawsuits. The release of the tapes showed a quick, coherent, and coordinated response. On the flip side, it offers future Adam Lanzas concrete support of more of what they crave, the wide scale attention and response of law enforcement, the media, and the public.
Since it is impossible to preempt every behavior of nutjobs like Lanza, I would fall on the side of transparency. Sunlight remains the greatest disinfectant and we can still choose whether or not to stare at the sun.
In some states, it wouldn't even be a question, Florida for example 9-1-1 tapes are automatically made public 24-48 hours after incident. When it comes to government, especially local and state government, sunlight is definitely the best disinfectant.
N.Y. County Law § 308(4) exempts from disclosure calls and transcripts of calls placed to county-run E911 systems.
This, I think, is a law that should be -- though doubtfully ever will be -- overturned.
Meanwhile, there's been a couple of attempts by the NYS Legislature to prohibit the broadcast of 9-1-1 calls (radio, television or Internet). So far, those bills have failed.
Richard, where are autopsy reports withheld, they are public once they go to court, if not part of a criminal case or public health emergency, they really aren't anyone's business.
I realize that Howard, but what would one expect from one of the most liberal states in the nation? It is ironic that the more progressive the government structure, the more concealing the government tends to be, sort of the exact opposite of the progressive mantra.
I haven’t been able to find them anywhere online. It appears to me they are being withheld for political reasons.
New York passed the “Safe Act” and Colorado passed one similar to it restricting the Constitutional Rights of honest citizens citing Sandy Hook.
When laws are based on lies or misinformation; specifically jerk-knee feel good laws for political reasons; things like autopsies are everyone’s business and might be a factor in getting them overturned.
I heard on "regular news" that these Sandy Hook releases had been gone over, to be sure that nothing too sensitive was heard on them. That would appear to be the way to go.
As for (some) of the gov'ts wanting to prohibit any of them being released, I would be against that prohibition. How many times do we hear the phrase, "Don't you realize that, once you put your info out there in cyberspace, the whole world can listen (or see) it"? Well, that goes both ways.
Several months ago, I started listening to police dispatches, from all over the U.S., on tunein.com - Genesee County Sheriff, Rochester police, etc. Well, I found Detroit and San Diego to be some of the busiest (no shock there!)
About 2 months ago, I came across Cleveland Police Dispatch. Very, very, very busy police agency. Anyways, I came across something on their dispatch calls that I hadn't heard on any others - A lot of times, the officer on duty would ask the dispatcher to run the name of someone (OK, that's routine). But the cop would ask for, AND RECEIVE, not only the name, but their date of birth, their address, AND their Social Security Number. Dozens of times a day, this info was put out over the airways. Talk about helping crooks commit identity theft. Imagine being someone pulled over for having a brake light out, and having the local police agency asking their dispatch for (and broadcasting to anyone with a scanner), your name, DOB and SS#. We have NO privacy anymore, and police agencies should not expect any.
Oh, BTW, Cleveland Dispatch hasn't been available on tunein for the last couple weeks - I wonder why!
I didn't realize that your reference was to Sandy Hook. I am not so familiar with Connecticut Law but one might assume that because there is not going to be a trial, there is no legal basis to release.
Autopsies are a particularly difficult area, you have criminal procedure law and you have HIPPA. An autopsy is in fact a medical procedure even though it is conducted post mortem it is a difficult balancing act and far different than 9-1-1 recordings.
To assume that those teachers and children were killed by anything other than gunfire would be a stretch at the least.
With regard to gun laws and autopsies, I would venture to say that even if half of those who died were killed by tear gas or even friendly fire, it would not change the mnds of gun control advocates or give gun rights advocates any boost. No matter what is on the 9-1-1 tapes, the Sherriff's dispatches{Which I have listened too} or anything else would change reactionary politicians for doing anything else.
Even if one of those teachers were armed and downed the maniac saving some of the lives, the anti gun advocates would still use this the same way they are now I suspect.
Ed, I have never heard anything like that before and I listen across the US on Broadcastify all the time. I know for fact that when that info is needed here in Genesee county, SSN that is, it is done over cell phone or CAD.
I do believe that Federal law precludes Police Departments from airing that info, but then Federal Law technically precludes using SSN's for anything but Social Security and we have seen how that has been going unfortunately.
These were calls made to taxpayer funded resources, that were then dispatched to taxpayer funded resources. In my way of thinking this unquestionably puts the communications in the public domain.
(Bringing back the emotional aspects)
The same could be said for autopsy results belonging in the public domain.
Too bad these legal issues must be debated - "back in the day" common sense, integrity, mutual respect and sensitivity would be the rule.
How does releasing a 9-1-1 recording differ from releasing police blotter information? Besides the obvious difference of one being audio and one written on paper. You can either choose to listen or not listen, just as easy as you choose to read or not read. This tragedy is public record. There are those who feel that, the government (state and federal) has not fully disclosed all the information of this horrible act. It is truly heartbreaking to hear the cries of fear and death but, people have the right to choose to listen or not to. Emotions aside, it is up to each individual to choose. Some use this information to learn of any mistakes or to evaluate what was done correctly.
Our society's morality has deteriorated over the past few decades and we still have not learned from it. Instead we find fault within someone or something else, those whom claim that it violates their rights/freedoms and those who claim it discriminates against their beliefs or cultures.
Since Sandy Hook, we have witnessed how our politicians have addressed this issue. Blame the guns! The Right to Bear Arms is the root of this evil, blah, blah, blah. As Governor Cuomo puts it, “What hunter needs thirty rounds to kill a deer?” This by the way has little to no bearing on the Second Amendment. Very little has been done to keep guns out of the hands of the criminal and the mentally disturbed. Yes, the Safe Act does somewhat address this but, also punishes the law abiding citizens in its wake. Very little has been done to help those who need mental health counseling. Very little has been done to teach our children right from wrong. Yes, parents are the first line in teaching morals, ethics, principle, values, etc… However, today parents’ hands are tied behind their back. Television, video games, movies and the media contribute to the moral breakdown of our society. We have become such a soft society because; peoples’ feelings get hurt so easily. The bottom line is that, nothing will change until we as a society wake up and discover the true root of our problems.
Yeah, Mark. I listen to both tunein and broadcastify, and the Cleveland police are the ONLY site I've ever heard broadcasting SS#'s. As I hinted at, for the last several weeks, when I try the Cleveland Dispatch, I get a notice that the site isn't currently available.
I don't see where it serves a
I don't see where it serves a purpose.
I don't see where it does any
I don't see where it does any harm.
And government transparency always serves a purpose. Transparency in and of itself is a virtue.
It would be difficult to
It would be difficult to reconcile the concept of demanding full disclosure in some instances and insisting on repression in others. Many argue that it has the potential of harming the families but information is a commodity that one chooses whether or not to consume. In this particular case the disclosure has the potential to serve purposes both positive and negative. There were growing reports that the police response was inadequate, bungled, and slow leading to conjecture of lawsuits. The release of the tapes showed a quick, coherent, and coordinated response. On the flip side, it offers future Adam Lanzas concrete support of more of what they crave, the wide scale attention and response of law enforcement, the media, and the public.
Since it is impossible to preempt every behavior of nutjobs like Lanza, I would fall on the side of transparency. Sunlight remains the greatest disinfectant and we can still choose whether or not to stare at the sun.
In some states, it wouldn't
In some states, it wouldn't even be a question, Florida for example 9-1-1 tapes are automatically made public 24-48 hours after incident. When it comes to government, especially local and state government, sunlight is definitely the best disinfectant.
Mark, NYS is the exact
Mark, NYS is the exact opposite of Florida.
N.Y. County Law § 308(4) exempts from disclosure calls and transcripts of calls placed to county-run E911 systems.
This, I think, is a law that should be -- though doubtfully ever will be -- overturned.
Meanwhile, there's been a couple of attempts by the NYS Legislature to prohibit the broadcast of 9-1-1 calls (radio, television or Internet). So far, those bills have failed.
I'd be more interested in
I'd be more interested in seeing the autopsy reports and wonder why they are being withheld.
Richard, where are autopsy
Richard, where are autopsy reports withheld, they are public once they go to court, if not part of a criminal case or public health emergency, they really aren't anyone's business.
I realize that Howard, but what would one expect from one of the most liberal states in the nation? It is ironic that the more progressive the government structure, the more concealing the government tends to be, sort of the exact opposite of the progressive mantra.
Mark, I haven’t been able to
Mark,
I haven’t been able to find them anywhere online. It appears to me they are being withheld for political reasons.
New York passed the “Safe Act” and Colorado passed one similar to it restricting the Constitutional Rights of honest citizens citing Sandy Hook.
When laws are based on lies or misinformation; specifically jerk-knee feel good laws for political reasons; things like autopsies are everyone’s business and might be a factor in getting them overturned.
I heard on "regular news"
I heard on "regular news" that these Sandy Hook releases had been gone over, to be sure that nothing too sensitive was heard on them. That would appear to be the way to go.
As for (some) of the gov'ts wanting to prohibit any of them being released, I would be against that prohibition. How many times do we hear the phrase, "Don't you realize that, once you put your info out there in cyberspace, the whole world can listen (or see) it"? Well, that goes both ways.
Several months ago, I started listening to police dispatches, from all over the U.S., on tunein.com - Genesee County Sheriff, Rochester police, etc. Well, I found Detroit and San Diego to be some of the busiest (no shock there!)
About 2 months ago, I came across Cleveland Police Dispatch. Very, very, very busy police agency. Anyways, I came across something on their dispatch calls that I hadn't heard on any others - A lot of times, the officer on duty would ask the dispatcher to run the name of someone (OK, that's routine). But the cop would ask for, AND RECEIVE, not only the name, but their date of birth, their address, AND their Social Security Number. Dozens of times a day, this info was put out over the airways. Talk about helping crooks commit identity theft. Imagine being someone pulled over for having a brake light out, and having the local police agency asking their dispatch for (and broadcasting to anyone with a scanner), your name, DOB and SS#. We have NO privacy anymore, and police agencies should not expect any.
Oh, BTW, Cleveland Dispatch hasn't been available on tunein for the last couple weeks - I wonder why!
I REALLY DONT KNOW?!?!
I REALLY DONT KNOW?!?! Really kinda creepy to hear that kinda stuff?
I would vote yes. but a really creepy, weird yes.
I didn't realize that your
I didn't realize that your reference was to Sandy Hook. I am not so familiar with Connecticut Law but one might assume that because there is not going to be a trial, there is no legal basis to release.
Autopsies are a particularly difficult area, you have criminal procedure law and you have HIPPA. An autopsy is in fact a medical procedure even though it is conducted post mortem it is a difficult balancing act and far different than 9-1-1 recordings.
To assume that those teachers and children were killed by anything other than gunfire would be a stretch at the least.
With regard to gun laws and autopsies, I would venture to say that even if half of those who died were killed by tear gas or even friendly fire, it would not change the mnds of gun control advocates or give gun rights advocates any boost. No matter what is on the 9-1-1 tapes, the Sherriff's dispatches{Which I have listened too} or anything else would change reactionary politicians for doing anything else.
Even if one of those teachers were armed and downed the maniac saving some of the lives, the anti gun advocates would still use this the same way they are now I suspect.
Ed, I have never heard
Ed, I have never heard anything like that before and I listen across the US on Broadcastify all the time. I know for fact that when that info is needed here in Genesee county, SSN that is, it is done over cell phone or CAD.
I do believe that Federal law precludes Police Departments from airing that info, but then Federal Law technically precludes using SSN's for anything but Social Security and we have seen how that has been going unfortunately.
(Putting the emotional
(Putting the emotional aspects aside)
These were calls made to taxpayer funded resources, that were then dispatched to taxpayer funded resources. In my way of thinking this unquestionably puts the communications in the public domain.
(Bringing back the emotional aspects)
The same could be said for autopsy results belonging in the public domain.
Too bad these legal issues must be debated - "back in the day" common sense, integrity, mutual respect and sensitivity would be the rule.
Not so much anymore.
Too many greedy lawyers.
How does releasing a 9-1-1
How does releasing a 9-1-1 recording differ from releasing police blotter information? Besides the obvious difference of one being audio and one written on paper. You can either choose to listen or not listen, just as easy as you choose to read or not read. This tragedy is public record. There are those who feel that, the government (state and federal) has not fully disclosed all the information of this horrible act. It is truly heartbreaking to hear the cries of fear and death but, people have the right to choose to listen or not to. Emotions aside, it is up to each individual to choose. Some use this information to learn of any mistakes or to evaluate what was done correctly.
Our society's morality has deteriorated over the past few decades and we still have not learned from it. Instead we find fault within someone or something else, those whom claim that it violates their rights/freedoms and those who claim it discriminates against their beliefs or cultures.
Since Sandy Hook, we have witnessed how our politicians have addressed this issue. Blame the guns! The Right to Bear Arms is the root of this evil, blah, blah, blah. As Governor Cuomo puts it, “What hunter needs thirty rounds to kill a deer?” This by the way has little to no bearing on the Second Amendment. Very little has been done to keep guns out of the hands of the criminal and the mentally disturbed. Yes, the Safe Act does somewhat address this but, also punishes the law abiding citizens in its wake. Very little has been done to help those who need mental health counseling. Very little has been done to teach our children right from wrong. Yes, parents are the first line in teaching morals, ethics, principle, values, etc… However, today parents’ hands are tied behind their back. Television, video games, movies and the media contribute to the moral breakdown of our society. We have become such a soft society because; peoples’ feelings get hurt so easily. The bottom line is that, nothing will change until we as a society wake up and discover the true root of our problems.
Yeah, Mark. I listen to both
Yeah, Mark. I listen to both tunein and broadcastify, and the Cleveland police are the ONLY site I've ever heard broadcasting SS#'s. As I hinted at, for the last several weeks, when I try the Cleveland Dispatch, I get a notice that the site isn't currently available.