Depends on the definition of Mentally Ill. Should every child (or adult) with ADD/ADHD or Autism be listed. How about individuals with social disorders that makes them introverts, shy or just quiet. How about people who suffer from addiction (alcohol, drugs or tobacco), is that a mental illness?
I think a data base would just be another way to discriminate against people.
WOW.....While I believe that weapons should be kept from the mentally ill, this is a slippery slope! First of all, what is considered "mentally ill"?? Much like the first poster, I just think there is too wide of a "grey area".
For Example: A kid in 9th grade is depressed and anxious because she just had to change schools for the 4th time. Her parents get her some professional help to deal with her issues, the professional puts her on anti depressants for a short period of time whie she adjusts......again. 20 years later: She goes to get a gun permit so she can go target shooting with her sig other and is denied because she is in the "database"??? Is that OK??
OR
Will ANYONE who has had to have a therapist of some sort for whatever reason be on "the list"?
Where will it end??
I am glad i am not the person who has to decide this stuff!
I think the idea of a national data base will discourage people from seeking help. There is already a stigma against people with mental health problems and this will not help encourage them to seek treatment.
And the likelihood that the data base will over time get misused by the government has to be considered.
I answered yes because I know that our current system of background checks for firearm purchases has no way of verifying whether an applicant is mentally ill or not. It's obvious that the real problem with recent events is mental health, not guns. I realize that not everyone procures firearms legally, but I don't think we'll ever be able to prevent that from happening.
There was a time when people could actually be committed for an indefinite period of time if mental health care practitioners deemed a patient to to be dangerous to their selves or to other people. Now it's almost impossible to force a mentally ill person to be treated for issues that pose those kinds of threats.
In the case of William Spengler, his mental health issues were known and given his prior history and what he had been saying to other people, he should not have been free to roam among the rest of us. He beat a 92 year old woman to death with a hammer and was only convicted of manslaughter. (That just escapes all logic in my opinion.) William Spengler had made threats against his sister and had said things that should have made people say "ummmm WTF?"
Don and Julie, those things already happen to people who have been arrested but never convicted. "Some" arrest records never go away and the person needs to submit a request to have those records expunged by a judge. No system will ever be perfect.
I wish I had the answer to stopping mass murders and the shooting of innocent people, especially children. I don't and neither does much of anyone else, in my humble opinion. Crazy government crack-downs are a waste of time and resources. Like the author of the article above points out rounding up the usual suspects might make some of you feel better, but it won't have much of a positive effect.
I have to agree with Doug, albeit with some reservations. I believe that mental health history should be taken into consideration for pistol permits and long gun transfers.
However, in a case like Spengler, a database would have done no good. Being a convicted felon he could not have obtained those weapons legally. The result of the investigation as to how he came into possession of them will be interesting.
Newtown points out another flaw in such a database. All the weapons were obtained legally by Lanza's mother.
Should such a database also be mailing address based so as to bar "sane" people living in the same household as the mentally ill person be allowed to obtain weapons?
You can't join the military with severve mental or social disorders. In other words, WE DONT WANT YOU TO HAVE A GUN. The mentally ill should not be allowed to own or operate a gun.
Gun Control for the Mentally unstable
1) Mental data collected over a period of time can and will be used against you.
2) If you have had an issue, you would need to get a doctor to sign off on your well being.
3) During your back round check, if you have had any blips at all, including arrest record, you should need a judge to sign off on it.
Really there is alot that can be done, that isn't.
Mike, unless you have a violent misdemeanor or a felony conviction, you cannot be denied a firearm purchase. You can be placed on hold for a few days, but you can't ultimately be denied. Your suggestion #3 is already a reality. A judge has to sign every pistol permit application AND every firearm purchase has to be approved with a National Instant Criminal Background Check (NICS) check. There is no gun show loop hole that the liberals love to jam down our throat, either. Every gun sold at a gun show has to have a NICS check approval first. Only private gun sales don't need a NICS performed. I can place a "for sale" list on facebook and sell any of my guns to anyone I want to, outside of my pistols.
If they don't institute something along the lines I suggested for THE MENTALLY CHALLENGED, not us, then the GOVERNMENT IS going to take our guns. Twice now in the last week, Gov. Cuomo's office has leaked verbage like "confiscation" and "Manditory for all". This is seriously scary shit to me, very Orwellian.
The best part is that all this crap is a complete over reaction. There are so many other things to focus on. I have done so much research on this over the last few weeks, it will make anyones head spin. Did you know that more people have been killed in the streets of Chicago and Washington DC in 5 years than have been killed in active combat in Afganastan since 2001. Most of the 10,000 dead in those two cities over the last 10 years, have been by criminal means, and most done by someform of mental disorder and a gun.
GET MORE HELP FOR THE MENTALLY ILL OR SOCIAL DISORDERS, AND FOR THE LOVE OF GOD, DON'T LET THEM HAVE A GUN!
This might stop some incidents but, with the economic collapse, moral breakdown of society, social breakdown,etc.... People who might seem okay could develop breaking points and become a menace to society.
GUNS DO NOT KILL! Stop blaming a tool and start focusing on the real issues at hand. Why is everyone under the belief that if, guns are removed killings will disappear? They will not, they will find another way. Guns can be made from different materials and people will never know. One of my co-workers stated he saw a YouTube video on how someone made a AK-47 out of a shovel handle.
Depends on the definition of
Depends on the definition of Mentally Ill. Should every child (or adult) with ADD/ADHD or Autism be listed. How about individuals with social disorders that makes them introverts, shy or just quiet. How about people who suffer from addiction (alcohol, drugs or tobacco), is that a mental illness?
I think a data base would just be another way to discriminate against people.
WOW.....While I believe that
WOW.....While I believe that weapons should be kept from the mentally ill, this is a slippery slope! First of all, what is considered "mentally ill"?? Much like the first poster, I just think there is too wide of a "grey area".
For Example: A kid in 9th grade is depressed and anxious because she just had to change schools for the 4th time. Her parents get her some professional help to deal with her issues, the professional puts her on anti depressants for a short period of time whie she adjusts......again. 20 years later: She goes to get a gun permit so she can go target shooting with her sig other and is denied because she is in the "database"??? Is that OK??
OR
Will ANYONE who has had to have a therapist of some sort for whatever reason be on "the list"?
Where will it end??
I am glad i am not the person who has to decide this stuff!
PEACE & LOVE people!
I think the idea of a
I think the idea of a national data base will discourage people from seeking help. There is already a stigma against people with mental health problems and this will not help encourage them to seek treatment.
And the likelihood that the data base will over time get misused by the government has to be considered.
I answered yes because I know
I answered yes because I know that our current system of background checks for firearm purchases has no way of verifying whether an applicant is mentally ill or not. It's obvious that the real problem with recent events is mental health, not guns. I realize that not everyone procures firearms legally, but I don't think we'll ever be able to prevent that from happening.
There was a time when people could actually be committed for an indefinite period of time if mental health care practitioners deemed a patient to to be dangerous to their selves or to other people. Now it's almost impossible to force a mentally ill person to be treated for issues that pose those kinds of threats.
In the case of William Spengler, his mental health issues were known and given his prior history and what he had been saying to other people, he should not have been free to roam among the rest of us. He beat a 92 year old woman to death with a hammer and was only convicted of manslaughter. (That just escapes all logic in my opinion.) William Spengler had made threats against his sister and had said things that should have made people say "ummmm WTF?"
Don and Julie, those things
Don and Julie, those things already happen to people who have been arrested but never convicted. "Some" arrest records never go away and the person needs to submit a request to have those records expunged by a judge. No system will ever be perfect.
" So desperate are some
" So desperate are some people to make sense of the slaughter that they resorted to the flimsiest of straw men."
http://reason.com/archives/2012/12/20/wrong-answers-for-mass-shootings
I wish I had the answer to stopping mass murders and the shooting of innocent people, especially children. I don't and neither does much of anyone else, in my humble opinion. Crazy government crack-downs are a waste of time and resources. Like the author of the article above points out rounding up the usual suspects might make some of you feel better, but it won't have much of a positive effect.
he's after me....he's after
he's after me....he's after you......don't be too alarmed,i believe we are all in a data base now,whether you are nuts or not....
Don't worry, there is
Don't worry, there is absolutely no way the government could use this list to suppress its own people.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_abuse_of_psychiatry_in_the_Sovie…
I have to agree with Doug,
I have to agree with Doug, albeit with some reservations. I believe that mental health history should be taken into consideration for pistol permits and long gun transfers.
However, in a case like Spengler, a database would have done no good. Being a convicted felon he could not have obtained those weapons legally. The result of the investigation as to how he came into possession of them will be interesting.
Newtown points out another flaw in such a database. All the weapons were obtained legally by Lanza's mother.
Should such a database also be mailing address based so as to bar "sane" people living in the same household as the mentally ill person be allowed to obtain weapons?
You can't join the military
You can't join the military with severve mental or social disorders. In other words, WE DONT WANT YOU TO HAVE A GUN. The mentally ill should not be allowed to own or operate a gun.
Gun Control for the Mentally unstable
1) Mental data collected over a period of time can and will be used against you.
2) If you have had an issue, you would need to get a doctor to sign off on your well being.
3) During your back round check, if you have had any blips at all, including arrest record, you should need a judge to sign off on it.
Really there is alot that can be done, that isn't.
Mike, unless you have a
Mike, unless you have a violent misdemeanor or a felony conviction, you cannot be denied a firearm purchase. You can be placed on hold for a few days, but you can't ultimately be denied. Your suggestion #3 is already a reality. A judge has to sign every pistol permit application AND every firearm purchase has to be approved with a National Instant Criminal Background Check (NICS) check. There is no gun show loop hole that the liberals love to jam down our throat, either. Every gun sold at a gun show has to have a NICS check approval first. Only private gun sales don't need a NICS performed. I can place a "for sale" list on facebook and sell any of my guns to anyone I want to, outside of my pistols.
If they don't institute
If they don't institute something along the lines I suggested for THE MENTALLY CHALLENGED, not us, then the GOVERNMENT IS going to take our guns. Twice now in the last week, Gov. Cuomo's office has leaked verbage like "confiscation" and "Manditory for all". This is seriously scary shit to me, very Orwellian.
The best part is that all this crap is a complete over reaction. There are so many other things to focus on. I have done so much research on this over the last few weeks, it will make anyones head spin. Did you know that more people have been killed in the streets of Chicago and Washington DC in 5 years than have been killed in active combat in Afganastan since 2001. Most of the 10,000 dead in those two cities over the last 10 years, have been by criminal means, and most done by someform of mental disorder and a gun.
GET MORE HELP FOR THE MENTALLY ILL OR SOCIAL DISORDERS, AND FOR THE LOVE OF GOD, DON'T LET THEM HAVE A GUN!
This might stop some
This might stop some incidents but, with the economic collapse, moral breakdown of society, social breakdown,etc.... People who might seem okay could develop breaking points and become a menace to society.
GUNS DO NOT KILL! Stop blaming a tool and start focusing on the real issues at hand. Why is everyone under the belief that if, guns are removed killings will disappear? They will not, they will find another way. Guns can be made from different materials and people will never know. One of my co-workers stated he saw a YouTube video on how someone made a AK-47 out of a shovel handle.