Hancock praises cuts to pension plans for public employees

I WONDER IF MS HANCOCK AND ALL THE OTHER ELECTED OFFICIALS ARE GOING TO FORGO THERE PENSIONS AND HEALTH CARE COVERAGE ALSO.

NO ONE is getting their pension cut that already exist. The pensions for new hires are going to be tailored more like 401K's you know, the same type retirement plan that the people who pay government employees paychecks get.

The alternative would be to fire more government employees

and new elected officials will be elected and function under these new tiers or continue to have elit status. why are working class people being targeted and our elected officials skate free

Let's see, the elite, we have on our county legislature, a couple of school teachers, a dairy farmer's wife, a local business guy, a retired veternarian's wife duly elected to balance a county budget.

A budget mind you rife with state mandates, (Most unfunded) and required essential services.

It might suprise you to know Douglas, those are working class people just like you.

The fact is, and it is a nationwide fact that 65% or more of the cost of all local, state and federal programs are social programs, not the military, not the state and local legislatures, but social spending.

Pension cost have skyrocketed, and New York unlike many states has a fully funded pension which means we have to keep the cash on hand for these pensions at all times.

Does it make more sense to pay a firefighter $50k base salary and end up paying them $26.5K pension for the rest of their life

Or pay the firefighter $65K base salary and the firefighter and the local governemnt each pay 6% of that while they work so that they can retire at the $26,5K or more without either contributing after the firefighter retires.

When these pension systems were set up, Civil workers would work for a lower salary in exchange for a healthy pension. Since 1962 when JFK signed an excutive order bringing collective bargaining to the civil sector, Government workers now make as much and in many cases more that comparable non government jobs with the same large pension payouts.

There is no possible way economically to maintain essential services and maintain the current pension system for future hires, there just isn't enough money to go around,

BTW, Richard Trumpka, you know the president of the AFL CIO do you know how much he makes? I do $238,650 per yer, plus expenses and a healthy 65% pension package, except the average tax payer doesn't pay that, your union dues do, all the while he is telling you he is looking out for the "Working Class" and bitching about the "Fat Cats" that make more than you do.

I, like most republicans are not actually against unions, the carpenters, the IBEW etc provide vital training and support for their membership, What we are against is Public Service Unions holding local and state governments economic hostage and limiting the amount of our tax money availabe for essential services.

Put your thumbs down I don't care, but we have passed the point where we can afford to pay for things with money we have to borrow.

Union membership is declining to about 16% of the workforce, off that more than half are civil service jobs

The funny thing is over the past 15 years, including during this last recession, right to work states have exceeded union required states in income, had lower unemployment and the most important category average wage almost across the board. And that my friend is a fact no matter what they say at the union hall

that's a great question Doug.our politicians never cut there PENSIONS AND HEALTH CARE COVERAGE , why is that?cut there PENSIONS AND HEALTH CARE and let them live on tear 6

Douglas,
Once Tier 6 starts, any new County Legislator elected after that will be in that system. They get nothing special.
And NO CURRENT worker gets their pension changed.

all the way up to the president and when are they vested? all im looking for is equality and elected officials are govt workers

Douglas, the Federal Pension system and the State are two different things

The Presidents pension is actually not part of any pension system, it is a totally separate issue.

Didn't realize I was name calling . Mary Pat is a retired public servant collecting on tier one status . That must be nice, since no one will ever get those benefits that she has received or will receive . I find it hard to trust someone that expcts others to give away benefits as she collects from the top . My parents always told me that they want me to do better than them but that is next impossible when those elders are the ones abolishing the benefits underneath our nose all while collecting . A new employee usualy does more work and harder work while working next to someone that makes double the pay and now double the benefits . I say its criminal and Mary Pat is a big part of that process that is failing .

Mark wrote in part; “Pension cost have skyrocketed, and New York unlike many states has a fully funded pension which means we have to keep the cash on hand for these pensions at all times.”

This is true and State workers are mandated to pay a percentage of their wages for work performed towards their pensions, as well as pay towards their health insurance.

During good economic times, taxpayers have paid little or nothing into the mentioned State Pension Fund because of how well the money was invested and managed.

Ironically every Governor in the past 30 years, Republican as well as Democrat has attempted to borrow against or outright seize control this mentioned “fully funded pension fund” to use as their personal slush fund or put into the “General Fund”.

The General Fund is a brilliant abomination; a fund of little or no accountability in general for our politicians of both parties to dip into at their leisure and to help get them re-elected.

Can you imagine if the Social Security System was fully funded as is the State Pension Fund and the Federal Government was mandated by law to pay out only to people who actually worked their entire lives, and by doing so contributed to it.

I detect a lot of sour grapes and anxiety in the comments above. The pension system in the public sector has been in a run away mode for decades. With promises made in the distant past that are now coming to fruitation. These have to be brought under control by the current State and Local representatives or we will end up bankrupt like many towns and cities in California. I was reading the other day about the City of Stockton California. They had to declare bankruptcy because the pension system was so far out of skew that the taxpayers could not or would not pay the taxes to support the retirees. The one example that I remember was an retired Librarian was drawing $226,000 a year pension. Totally absurd!

Tom,

Tier 1, 2, 3,4, 5, 6,…… I am all for equal pay and equal benefits for the same work, whether it be in the private or public sector and especially if it is high risk work and generally dangerous and/or physically demanding.

Keep in mind when Tier 1 was changed to Tier 2 almost 99% of the members of New York State Legislature were Tier 1; it didn’t affect them.

Tier 3 to Tier 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, etc….the outcome remains the same; the Legislature will always have theirs, much like Congress is exempt from Obama Care. Does the word hypocrisy come to mind?

Thomas, I really think that you and many others are missing the point.

1) Mary Pat Hancock did not and was not responsible to set up the retirement system, but as chair of the county legislature, she had to build the county budget around the retirement mandate, just like other county chairs.

2) Her praise for the Governor was that some action what ever it was, was needed because it was becoming nearly impossible to maintain services, pay retirees and balance a budget the way things were.

3) It really is the same sort of thing as what is happening in Wisconsin, The counties are required to balance a budget, but most of the budget is premandated by the state, (Pensions, school mandates, minimum salaries etc.) That leaves local legislatures in a very tough spot, To maintain basic services and pay growing pensions without raising property taxes. The the state places a cap on state property taxes which pretty much throws a wrench in the whole process.

It all comes back to the basics, we have to change the way we are doing business, and that has to start where and how wisely we are spending our money.

One can cite remote instances of public employees who for whatever reason have been empowered to play the system and attain outrageous benefits. These extreme examples are unfortunate and not only misrepresent the vast majority of public employees' earnings/benefit allowances but suggest collusion by administrators above and beyond the intent of public retirement systems. For most public employees in New York State pension is based on the wages earned in the last three years of employment. The average custodian earning between 10 and 13 dollars per hour based on a 40 hour work week will not see 10% of the Librarian's retirement pay suggested in comment #13. Clerk typists, cleaners, teacher's aides, cook/bakers, employment counselors, highway maintenance workers, temporary assistance specialists, etc. will be lucky to see $10K in annual retirement after 30 years service. Our public employees earn salaries that are consistently lower than private-sector employees performing equivalent jobs, they are generally expected to perform tasks above and beyond the scope of their job description and often (due to budget restrictions) must provide at their own expense equipment and supplies necessary to accomplish their work. It is a mistake to blame the hardworking public employees of New York State. Our state's off-budget public agencies squander millions annually. We excuse their escapades and bother the night custodian over claims of a lost penny. It's not only illogical; it's demeaning.

The New York State average pension payment was $2300 per month per retiree, That equals $27600 per year.

That is why I used the $26.5K retirement figure in my firefighter example.

The problem is that under our current pension system, the money is in the general fund which makes it easy pickings for various politically based programs to dip into the fund.

From the ny post

"What the calculator will show you is that New York pension benefits can be extremely rich for typical employees. Consider a teacher in Albany County, retiring at 59 after a 37-year career, with a final average salary of $89,000. That teacher is eligible for a pension benefit starting at $62,745 (70.5% of final average salary) with an annual cost-of-living adjustment.

Is your 401(k) as rich as that? Consider that a private-sector worker seeking an equivalent annuity would need a whopping $1.25 million on hand at retirement to buy it.

Read more: http://www.nypost.com/p/news/opinion/opedcolumnists/public_vs_private_r… "

An interesting online tool for the sake of discussion

http://www.empirecenter.org/pensioncalculator/

Mark,
The money is not in the general fund. It is a separate fund that is off limits to the legislature. At this time the fund is fully funded and not in debt.

The problem is that local governments have to pay their share to the fund since many retires are from local governments (police, fire, teachers, etc). The amount they have to pay has been going up and with other mandates like Medicaid, it's killing them.

I understand that John, I misspoke, I am actually very much in agreement with you.

My issue is that people jump and blame local legislators, like the first post in this thread, They have very little control because of mandates from state nd fed and most p[eople just don't understand that.

For example, I had a friend who won a seat on the Caledonia School Board a few years ago, he was totally excited be cause he thought he could effect change, after two meetings he was actually depressed, turns out, that because of state and local mandates, pretty much all he could change was busing and sports programs and how many teachers they hired, a drop in the bucket compared to the entire budget.

Pensions do have an effect, "Our counties share" is nopt dictated by the county, but by the state, I applaud the Governor's move"

Medicaid is really going to be a problem soon, the CBO on Monday updated it's numbers on the new Health Care law, it is actually going to cost $1.764 Trillion rather that the $984 Billion then we were told and as many as 3.5 million otherwise insured will soon be added to medicaid, before all the partisan folks jump on that, it isn't the republicans saying that it is the NON PARTISAN CBO

Meanwhile as we argue the merits of pinching pennies on the pensions of productive people who work and contribute to society, the State of New York is purposely and proudly expanding its Lamborghini of Welfare systems welcoming all pandemic prospects, many with propensities of sloth with open arms; those who produce nothing or contribute nothing as their prolific prodigious progenies prosper in unending perpetuity.

This pension reform is a joke...It only effects people who aren't even hired yet..And they are fighting over this....Where is the reform for this year ..It will be years before any of this would even benefit anyone.....all it does it make a feel good head line......

NO BLAME WAS LAID! WONDER WAS ! IF AND WHEN A NEW RETIREMENT TIER IS PUT IN PLACE ID LIKE TO SEE IT APPLY TO ALL OF OUR GOVT EMPLOYEES, EVEN THE ONES ELECTED.