It would be easy to come on here and add to the negativity , so I won't .I feel that the negativity stems from high excpectations we all have for this city to be better or to be like it used to be . As any negativity is bad but this does show that people still care and there is hope for Batavia .
The city of Batavia Ny, just business as usual. look at the 70% whom agree with each other. The City's last great development, a round about. This city has potential but it needs some major changes,within it's political structure.
I guess the kids at Grandma's Luv'n Care haven't been affect by the pervasive negative attitude yet--they all look pretty positive to me. Someone much wiser than I once said that you often find what you expect to find (or put another way, people often ignore evidence that contradicts their believes, but will gladly endorse any 'evidence' that supports it.)
"Negativity" is a touchy subject of late. I don't see it as negativity as I do a power struggle between the City, the County, the local Municipalities. I think all want the same positive outcome, but pride and power get in the way.
Having only a few years here locally I have some exp both in this community and a few others I have lived in. I voted yes because it seems that the way things have transpired here in the past that everything is looked at with with a bit of cynicism.
But as I have watched I see plenty of reasons for such cynicism as well. There seems to be a big disconnect between some of those in Govt vs the people they represent. Oh nothing glaring mind mind you but opinions are built upon alot of little things pulled together to form them. My perception of local Govt and its decision making process here is that they know whats good for you and will keep trying to do what they want depsite what the people indicate. Examples of this are the massive dead mall in he middle of town, the budget proccess for the schools, even the little things too like the struggle for Genesee Justice, or Jay and Chris's little political and personal debacle.
In the last couple of polls I laughed at the arguments over PILOT. In Ithaca where I lived for almost 20 yrs prior to coming here they have Cornell University, which brings about 5 billion dollars through ther area anually however they pay only 1 million in taxes in a PILOT program. For those who might not be sure, my understanding is PILOT stands for Payment In Lieu of Taxes. is complex to be sure but its a consant struggle there, taxpayere here think they have such a burden, back there just in the City of Ithaca 70% of the taxable land is exempt because it is owned by Colleges or other tax exempt entities. A favorite past time of developers is to build office buildings then sell them to Cornell so they become tax exempt. So the 30% actually paying the taxes to support the city are doing so but have no voice as the 2 colleges get to run roughshod over them because of political power.
Things arent always so bad when you look to others local problems. But the negativity is gonna get bigger because of the corruption and crap occuring in all forms of Govt from local to international while we supposedly sensible people shout into the void about how wrong it is while we still vote the same people in to supposedly change things.
I'll do it for $53K. Let's race to the bottom folks. Matter of fact, I'm willing to pay you a dollar to tell you that the state of affairs in Batavia sucks.
Dave, if you were in Texas they would pay you twice that amount if 10% came back to Pandering Preacher Perry. It sounds like a good deal to a sorry bunch of butt kissing sychophants and we have hundreds and hundreds of them here. Why? Because they need the work and Prince Charmin Perry can't wipe bear butts fast enough to keep up. "Probama, tell your mama 2012" tm
Turn that frown upside down, "Boost Batavia, it's good for you". If you see litter, pick it up and put it in a trashcan. If you can't find a trashcan, call the Mayor. If you see potential juvenille crime, step up and say "STOP THAT SHIT" at the top of your lungs, try to look really angry too. Nine times out of ten the vermin will scatter, then call their parents. It worked on me, I can testify to that much. Thank God I was born White or I would be fukced right now.
Many people in Batavia echo the sentiments of Richard Farina in his book "Been down so long it looks like up to me."
Learn from history and keep this video in mind, all of the time. [video:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=of2aNxu4KBQ]
"Boost Batavia, it's good for you, and you and you too."
I think "bad attitude" was a bad choice of words, unless of course you paid me 55 grand to use this term.
Batavians may be critical of our elected officials, we speak our minds when necessary, we tell it like it is.
If thats having a bad attitude, so be it.
I wouldn't expect this firm to put those who paid in a bad light.
Frank, it's not just about being critical of elected officials or speaking one's mind. It's about saying things like "why would anybody relocate here" or "why would a business open here" or "Batavia is dying" or "building anything new creates a sense of false hope" ... should I go on .. all of these things and more are comments that in one form or another have been left on The Batavian and I've also heard in discussions when I'm out and about. The consultants interviewed dozens of people and sat in coffee shops and restaurants overhearing conversations and heard the same things.
I remember when we first opened The Batavian and an issue came up at city council about all of the slum-like neighborhoods on the Southside, so Philip Anselmo drove every street of the South Side and couldn't find one single "slum like" neighborhood, and reported as such, and readers jumped all over him.
Both he and I commented that we have seen much worst neighborhoods in Rochester.
A couple of years ago Richard Gahagan was on here running down Batavia and I challenged him on it and he commented that I obviously hadn't seen the slums. And I'm like, "What slums?"
He told me to drive down State Street or Thorpe, and I reminded him that I lived at the end of Thorpe. It's no slum. It's kind of sucky and low class, and I'm glad we moved away from it, but it's no slum. At least half the people on Thorpe are decent, hard-working people, and the same with State.
But there's a tendency for people to run down Batavia, especially the Southside (people often look at me odd when they find out I live on the Southside). But the Southside isn't bad at all. I don't understand why people run it down.
I love Batavia and Genesee County, but I've certainly been exposed to a lot of bashing of our wonderful little city and not once have I found the bashing based in a factual or objective observation of what Batavia is actually like.
Is it negativity, or reality? Local attitudes are simply a reflection of the current national psyche. Have our parents bred a generation of negative people, or are negatively impacted by the direction our country?
I vote the latter.
BTW, $5000.00 bucks and I'll do the study - times are tough.....
Bob, I've been all over the country. Batavia is unique in how a lot of people here always run it down as not a good place to live or do business and that it has no hope of ever getting better. It has nothing to do with "national psyche." And in talking with other residents, it's been that way here for several decades at least.
Howard wrote:
But there's a tendency to for people to run down Batavia, especially the South side (people often look at me odd when they find out I live on the South Side). But the South Side isn't bad at all. I don't understand why people run it down.
Most of those who bash the south side are the remnants of bigotry and racism from an earlier time.
The south side was, and still is, considered "the other side of the tracks". It was the home of the Italian and Polish immigrants. It had a large (for the size of the city)black community. It was dominated by two Catholic parishes with ethnic ties. Everything one would need to fuel the fires of hate and distrust.
If you were a girl from the 'southside', you weren't considered good enough for the young men living in the WASP neighborhoods of the north side. If you did date a south side girl, you generally ended your date at the tracks..you didn't walk her home.
While that ended after WW2, the seeds of belittling anyone from the south side were well planted.
Yet, those immigrants had wonderful yards and gardens. They took pride in their neighborhoods. Most important, they looked after each other. They knew the names of their neighbors and the kids had to answer to their own parents and to any parent who happen to be in eyesight.
We were brought up in neighborhoods where English was still a second language for many. It was truly a melting pot.
As the older people died, and children became part of our mobile society, the homes were sold. The homes were rented by absentee landlords and neighborhoods suffered.
Ironic as it may seem, it is the southside that will have a renewal of good neighborhoods as young people, looking to buy a home, can take advantage of inexpensive homes. They will clean up their neighborhoods, raise their children in a safe environment and the cycle will go around again.
Howard, it could be a lot of us lifetimers have seen a much better Batavia, a bustling, thriving, friendly little city. Maybe we frown at the thought of knowing we may not live long enough to ever see it again, or maybe it's just nostalgia, and no one will ever witness the Batavia that was again.
Main Street Batavia just needs a medical marijuana dispensary and one old doctor to write prescriptions. Then you would be a true tourist destination and I would come by to stay/say high/hi four or five times a year. Think outside of the box, and speaking of box, Jack in the Box is sounding really good right now. Oh I want a bacon, bacon, cheese bacon triple meat bacon cheese bacon burger, hold the pickles.
Boost Batavia, goddamn it! It's good for your sorry asses. How are they going to throw my ashes off of the water tower if y'all go under? Pull your socks up wimps.
[video:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GrnzcdQx0Ns&feature=channel_video_title]
Frank, I don't want this to sound like I'm picking on you. In a way, you hit the nail on the head, and that's exactly the problem.
I was never even here for what the north side of Main Street was like at one time, and I greatly regret what was lost. I'm sure those who personally remember it feel an even greater pain over it.
However, there's a difference between recognizing what was lost and even regretting it and letting it color your entire perspective on Batavia and what could be.
Batavia will never be what it once was, but there's no reason that within the next 10 years it can't grow and prosper to levels never even seen before in the greatest days of Batavia of the past.
But it will never happen if people keep saying it can't or concentrate on a thought matrix of "Batavia will never again being what it once was."
Everybody knows urban renewal was a disaster for Batavia, but the issue isn't so much about what happened in the past, but what do we do about the future?
George, a marijuana dispensary- just what the doctor ordered to pull the plug on the meth, crack and hydrocodone trade in this town! ...Not so convinced on the clown selling nitrite/cholesterol-laden burgers. It's the beef, you know; distributors with multiple recalls. It's one thing to look the other way on the animal-cruelty, but E. coli; that's a horse of a different color. I really wanted to comment on your funeral plans involving the water tower. Depending on wind direction, I'm worried about the lunches served over at South Beach's new outdoor dining area. I picture you more the water-born eastern-type; origami boats floating your ashes down the Tonawanda. ...Way more picturesque than the dead cow that washed down the creek back in '77. Heck, maybe with your Texas-connection, an upturned Stetson buoying your mortal-remains might be just the ticket.
Howard, I agree with you, we do need to move forward,and try and build a better future here. But our elected officials need to step up as well, 55 grand to place blame on the citizens, it just doesn't seem like a very proactive idea. Spend the money to find ways to improve the attitudes instead of pointing fingers.
Frank, first you're minimizing all the work the consultants did. Second, sometimes it takes somebody from the outside to see things more clearly. Third, it's not up to the politicians to change things. It's up to you.
Forgive my liberties, Howard, while I expand on your comment. All the agencies, politicians, consultants, financiers and PR people in the world can line up behind development... If the host community doesn't support it- whether tangibly or in spirit, it will flop. The irony, those who withhold support will point away in every direction addressing blame. If 50 grand worth of study reveals the only thing holding us back is our own defeatism, maybe it is high time we swallow a dose of motivation. The former Main Street, the passing of which everyone laments; garden-variety Batavians built those buildings and set-up shop within them. Who knows who tore them down. It's irrelevant. The relevancy lies in accepting- no special requirements beyond Batavia's personal investment can inject renewed life into downtown Batavia.
It would be easy to come on
It would be easy to come on here and add to the negativity , so I won't .I feel that the negativity stems from high excpectations we all have for this city to be better or to be like it used to be . As any negativity is bad but this does show that people still care and there is hope for Batavia .
I'm surprised there are so
I'm surprised there are so many affirmative responses. ;)
The city of Batavia Ny, just
The city of Batavia Ny, just business as usual. look at the 70% whom agree with each other. The City's last great development, a round about. This city has potential but it needs some major changes,within it's political structure.
I guess the kids at Grandma's
I guess the kids at Grandma's Luv'n Care haven't been affect by the pervasive negative attitude yet--they all look pretty positive to me. Someone much wiser than I once said that you often find what you expect to find (or put another way, people often ignore evidence that contradicts their believes, but will gladly endorse any 'evidence' that supports it.)
"Negativity" is a touchy
"Negativity" is a touchy subject of late. I don't see it as negativity as I do a power struggle between the City, the County, the local Municipalities. I think all want the same positive outcome, but pride and power get in the way.
Having only a few years here
Having only a few years here locally I have some exp both in this community and a few others I have lived in. I voted yes because it seems that the way things have transpired here in the past that everything is looked at with with a bit of cynicism.
But as I have watched I see plenty of reasons for such cynicism as well. There seems to be a big disconnect between some of those in Govt vs the people they represent. Oh nothing glaring mind mind you but opinions are built upon alot of little things pulled together to form them. My perception of local Govt and its decision making process here is that they know whats good for you and will keep trying to do what they want depsite what the people indicate. Examples of this are the massive dead mall in he middle of town, the budget proccess for the schools, even the little things too like the struggle for Genesee Justice, or Jay and Chris's little political and personal debacle.
In the last couple of polls I laughed at the arguments over PILOT. In Ithaca where I lived for almost 20 yrs prior to coming here they have Cornell University, which brings about 5 billion dollars through ther area anually however they pay only 1 million in taxes in a PILOT program. For those who might not be sure, my understanding is PILOT stands for Payment In Lieu of Taxes. is complex to be sure but its a consant struggle there, taxpayere here think they have such a burden, back there just in the City of Ithaca 70% of the taxable land is exempt because it is owned by Colleges or other tax exempt entities. A favorite past time of developers is to build office buildings then sell them to Cornell so they become tax exempt. So the 30% actually paying the taxes to support the city are doing so but have no voice as the 2 colleges get to run roughshod over them because of political power.
Things arent always so bad when you look to others local problems. But the negativity is gonna get bigger because of the corruption and crap occuring in all forms of Govt from local to international while we supposedly sensible people shout into the void about how wrong it is while we still vote the same people in to supposedly change things.
Don't know, pay me 55 grand
Don't know, pay me 55 grand and I'll look into it.
I'll do it for
I'll do it for $54,000...sorry Dave these are lean times. :-)
http://rustwire.com/2011/09/2
http://rustwire.com/2011/09/22/the-rust-belt-city-as-a-catch-all-for-pe…
Thanks for sharing the link,
Thanks for sharing the link, C.M.
I'll do it for $53K. Let's
I'll do it for $53K. Let's race to the bottom folks. Matter of fact, I'm willing to pay you a dollar to tell you that the state of affairs in Batavia sucks.
I'm worth the full 55G, I
I'm worth the full 55G, I have many more years of negative experience than Phil or Chris.
Attitude adjustment time
[video:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VBGZTCwPhQQ]
Attitude adjustment time brothers and sisters of the universe. It looks like I missed it by fifteen minutes.
Dave, if you were in Texas
Dave, if you were in Texas they would pay you twice that amount if 10% came back to Pandering Preacher Perry. It sounds like a good deal to a sorry bunch of butt kissing sychophants and we have hundreds and hundreds of them here. Why? Because they need the work and Prince Charmin Perry can't wipe bear butts fast enough to keep up. "Probama, tell your mama 2012" tm
"Boost Batavia, it's good for you."
Turn that frown upside down,
Turn that frown upside down, "Boost Batavia, it's good for you". If you see litter, pick it up and put it in a trashcan. If you can't find a trashcan, call the Mayor. If you see potential juvenille crime, step up and say "STOP THAT SHIT" at the top of your lungs, try to look really angry too. Nine times out of ten the vermin will scatter, then call their parents. It worked on me, I can testify to that much. Thank God I was born White or I would be fukced right now.
Many people in Batavia echo
Many people in Batavia echo the sentiments of Richard Farina in his book "Been down so long it looks like up to me."
Learn from history and keep this video in mind, all of the time. [video:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=of2aNxu4KBQ]
"Boost Batavia, it's good for you, and you and you too."
Well your all pretty positive
Well your all pretty positive about this.
(No subject)
[video:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HunQL370XW8&feature=related]
I think "bad attitude" was a
I think "bad attitude" was a bad choice of words, unless of course you paid me 55 grand to use this term.
Batavians may be critical of our elected officials, we speak our minds when necessary, we tell it like it is.
If thats having a bad attitude, so be it.
I wouldn't expect this firm to put those who paid in a bad light.
Frank, it's not just about
Frank, it's not just about being critical of elected officials or speaking one's mind. It's about saying things like "why would anybody relocate here" or "why would a business open here" or "Batavia is dying" or "building anything new creates a sense of false hope" ... should I go on .. all of these things and more are comments that in one form or another have been left on The Batavian and I've also heard in discussions when I'm out and about. The consultants interviewed dozens of people and sat in coffee shops and restaurants overhearing conversations and heard the same things.
I remember when we first opened The Batavian and an issue came up at city council about all of the slum-like neighborhoods on the Southside, so Philip Anselmo drove every street of the South Side and couldn't find one single "slum like" neighborhood, and reported as such, and readers jumped all over him.
Both he and I commented that we have seen much worst neighborhoods in Rochester.
A couple of years ago Richard Gahagan was on here running down Batavia and I challenged him on it and he commented that I obviously hadn't seen the slums. And I'm like, "What slums?"
He told me to drive down State Street or Thorpe, and I reminded him that I lived at the end of Thorpe. It's no slum. It's kind of sucky and low class, and I'm glad we moved away from it, but it's no slum. At least half the people on Thorpe are decent, hard-working people, and the same with State.
But there's a tendency for people to run down Batavia, especially the Southside (people often look at me odd when they find out I live on the Southside). But the Southside isn't bad at all. I don't understand why people run it down.
I love Batavia and Genesee County, but I've certainly been exposed to a lot of bashing of our wonderful little city and not once have I found the bashing based in a factual or objective observation of what Batavia is actually like.
Is it negativity, or reality?
Is it negativity, or reality? Local attitudes are simply a reflection of the current national psyche. Have our parents bred a generation of negative people, or are negatively impacted by the direction our country?
I vote the latter.
BTW, $5000.00 bucks and I'll do the study - times are tough.....
Bob, I've been all over the
Bob, I've been all over the country. Batavia is unique in how a lot of people here always run it down as not a good place to live or do business and that it has no hope of ever getting better. It has nothing to do with "national psyche." And in talking with other residents, it's been that way here for several decades at least.
Howard wrote: But there's a
Howard wrote:
But there's a tendency to for people to run down Batavia, especially the South side (people often look at me odd when they find out I live on the South Side). But the South Side isn't bad at all. I don't understand why people run it down.
Most of those who bash the south side are the remnants of bigotry and racism from an earlier time.
The south side was, and still is, considered "the other side of the tracks". It was the home of the Italian and Polish immigrants. It had a large (for the size of the city)black community. It was dominated by two Catholic parishes with ethnic ties. Everything one would need to fuel the fires of hate and distrust.
If you were a girl from the 'southside', you weren't considered good enough for the young men living in the WASP neighborhoods of the north side. If you did date a south side girl, you generally ended your date at the tracks..you didn't walk her home.
While that ended after WW2, the seeds of belittling anyone from the south side were well planted.
Yet, those immigrants had wonderful yards and gardens. They took pride in their neighborhoods. Most important, they looked after each other. They knew the names of their neighbors and the kids had to answer to their own parents and to any parent who happen to be in eyesight.
We were brought up in neighborhoods where English was still a second language for many. It was truly a melting pot.
As the older people died, and children became part of our mobile society, the homes were sold. The homes were rented by absentee landlords and neighborhoods suffered.
Ironic as it may seem, it is the southside that will have a renewal of good neighborhoods as young people, looking to buy a home, can take advantage of inexpensive homes. They will clean up their neighborhoods, raise their children in a safe environment and the cycle will go around again.
Howard, it could be a lot of
Howard, it could be a lot of us lifetimers have seen a much better Batavia, a bustling, thriving, friendly little city. Maybe we frown at the thought of knowing we may not live long enough to ever see it again, or maybe it's just nostalgia, and no one will ever witness the Batavia that was again.
Main Street Batavia just
Main Street Batavia just needs a medical marijuana dispensary and one old doctor to write prescriptions. Then you would be a true tourist destination and I would come by to stay/say high/hi four or five times a year. Think outside of the box, and speaking of box, Jack in the Box is sounding really good right now. Oh I want a bacon, bacon, cheese bacon triple meat bacon cheese bacon burger, hold the pickles.
Boost Batavia, goddamn it! It's good for your sorry asses. How are they going to throw my ashes off of the water tower if y'all go under? Pull your socks up wimps.
[video:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GrnzcdQx0Ns&feature=channel_video_title]
Frank, I don't want this to
Frank, I don't want this to sound like I'm picking on you. In a way, you hit the nail on the head, and that's exactly the problem.
I was never even here for what the north side of Main Street was like at one time, and I greatly regret what was lost. I'm sure those who personally remember it feel an even greater pain over it.
However, there's a difference between recognizing what was lost and even regretting it and letting it color your entire perspective on Batavia and what could be.
Batavia will never be what it once was, but there's no reason that within the next 10 years it can't grow and prosper to levels never even seen before in the greatest days of Batavia of the past.
But it will never happen if people keep saying it can't or concentrate on a thought matrix of "Batavia will never again being what it once was."
Everybody knows urban renewal was a disaster for Batavia, but the issue isn't so much about what happened in the past, but what do we do about the future?
George, a marijuana
George, a marijuana dispensary- just what the doctor ordered to pull the plug on the meth, crack and hydrocodone trade in this town! ...Not so convinced on the clown selling nitrite/cholesterol-laden burgers. It's the beef, you know; distributors with multiple recalls. It's one thing to look the other way on the animal-cruelty, but E. coli; that's a horse of a different color. I really wanted to comment on your funeral plans involving the water tower. Depending on wind direction, I'm worried about the lunches served over at South Beach's new outdoor dining area. I picture you more the water-born eastern-type; origami boats floating your ashes down the Tonawanda. ...Way more picturesque than the dead cow that washed down the creek back in '77. Heck, maybe with your Texas-connection, an upturned Stetson buoying your mortal-remains might be just the ticket.
Howard, I agree with you, we
Howard, I agree with you, we do need to move forward,and try and build a better future here. But our elected officials need to step up as well, 55 grand to place blame on the citizens, it just doesn't seem like a very proactive idea. Spend the money to find ways to improve the attitudes instead of pointing fingers.
Frank, first you're
Frank, first you're minimizing all the work the consultants did. Second, sometimes it takes somebody from the outside to see things more clearly. Third, it's not up to the politicians to change things. It's up to you.
Forgive my liberties, Howard,
Forgive my liberties, Howard, while I expand on your comment. All the agencies, politicians, consultants, financiers and PR people in the world can line up behind development... If the host community doesn't support it- whether tangibly or in spirit, it will flop. The irony, those who withhold support will point away in every direction addressing blame. If 50 grand worth of study reveals the only thing holding us back is our own defeatism, maybe it is high time we swallow a dose of motivation. The former Main Street, the passing of which everyone laments; garden-variety Batavians built those buildings and set-up shop within them. Who knows who tore them down. It's irrelevant. The relevancy lies in accepting- no special requirements beyond Batavia's personal investment can inject renewed life into downtown Batavia.