Just a bunch of hypocrites. I wonder how many of these protesters of "corporate greed" buy ipods/phones, nike's, and other big corporate name brands to keep their social standing among their friends? Just like the people that rail against buying foreign goods, yet they're the first ones to buy a toyota, honda, kia etc and to justify this, they all say the same thing " they're built in the USA". That might be true, but their profits go to their mother country.
Just a bunch of kids and dissatified adults with the decisions they made in their lives. They want to transfer blame to the Government and DEMAND that the wrongs in their lives be made right by the same. The one that stands out in my mind,is the young adult that DEMANDS that the Government pay off his $80K college loan because he can not find a job. Sorry, bud, what did you major in at college; the Humanites?
You can't make a smart phone out of hemp fibers and morning glory seeds. This movement is being driven and coordinated via the web. iPhones and the like are sort of necessary.
Seems like the Tea Party movement was more about taxpayers who wanted accountability for there tax dollars..More of an older crowd..This thing seems more about those who don't pay taxes and seem to think that the government owes them something..Younger crowd....
John, how do you define a justified arrest? One that is made because somebody isn't obeying some unconstitutional "free speech zone" or a failure to disperse while exercising a First Amendment protected right to assembly, or ... ?
Yup, there's the new ridiculous talking point: People are getting arrested so they must be bad people...
When 700 people were arrested on the Brooklyn Bridge, it was because the police played pied piper and led them right to the restricted zone so they would have cause to make the arrests. There is video documentation of this. Welcome to the internet age.
In Chicago the police are bringing the occupiers coffee.
In Seattle the police are arresting people because they're on the grass. (Get off my lawn!!!)
In Boston last night, they were arresting people apparently just for the hell of it after the occupiers started a second camp.
In Buffalo, the police haven't done anything other than honk their horns in support.
The list goes on, but there have been no incidents of occupier fueled violence. There have been incidents of undercover police and FBI agents attempting to start violence from within the crowd (also video documented.)
Howard,
I was making a point that some of the Occupy crowd claim that many of the arrests were unjustified.
I would say that blocking a public bridge, a road or a public building, and interfering with others unfettered access to them would be a justified arrest. And now we have more arrest today in DC. Just comparing it to the Tea Party demonstrations.
I see alot of out of hand dismissal of this movement. While I agree that the Arab Spring movement isnt really a good comparison, it does seem to me to be a similar movement of citizen displeasure, like the Tea Party movement, while as some have characterized TP as older taxpayers wanting accountability for their tax dollars.
While the Occupy Wall Street movement is marginalized using generalization type statements like its just kids wanting the Govt to pay for their educations. Its funny that our local commentators can come to this conclusion while the media reports that there are so many varied answers to what they are exactly protesting...(The biggest of which they focus on is Wall St/Big Business and Banks manipulating the market through speculation among other things) And I have barely seen mention that Govt needs to pay their student loans.
This is BS in my view, one thing we can all agree upon is that the hand in hand games of corruption that big corporate businesses and the Govt play with our tax dollars aren't the way the system was supposed to work. I hear the arguments that increasing the tax on the rich isnt fair BS but as has been proven most big businesses dont even pay taxes, in fact they still get minimal amounts back. Banks played games with taking risk on mortgages, but when the shoe drops and time to pay the piper, in comes the Govt to bail them out. We allow it to happen, the TP was a first step but they allowed the political machines to come in and dilute their message and marginalize their cause. The way I see it it might take a younger minds like we are seeing to keep this Occupy movement just disorganized and spread out enough to still be getting a message across but scaring the big political machines and such away from coming in and "taking over the message" due to the lack of crystal clear message that they can manipulate.
As I mentioned to Chris C in earlier posts on another subject, maybe this is the seed of true sweeping change that will finally get the attention of our so-called representative and might stat putting the fires of corruption out and get us back to a fair system again.
Good comment Kyle. I'm not really paying enough attention to this movement to have an opinion. I do think that both the root of the original tea party protests and the occupy movement are against the unholy alliance between the political parties and big corporate interests. If the tea party originators and the occupyers can find enough common ground through their disaffection, then look out status quo. I am praying for it.
The sleeping giant of real populism is rising out of the majorities realization that corporations and their minions have been running a crooked game treating the majority like rubes at a carnival. The "Tea Party" was bought and paid for by the Koch brothers with well polished shills like Dick Armey, Sarah Palen, Sean Hannity, Glenn Beck et al giving the fair and balanced view of the worl dy Roger Ailes and Rupert Murdoch. The ersatz populist movement of the astro-turf elements of the "Tea Party Movement" has been exposed as a fraud, their all to clever schemes revealed as Wisconsin Governor Scott Walker (R) in a telephone interview with Ian Murphy posing as one of the Koch brothers, Sarah Palen(R) candidate, or the Paul Ryan (R) budget plan passed by the R's in the House of representitives to turn Medicare into a discount coupon plan.
Pres. Abe Lincoln once remarked that "You can fool all of the people some of the time, and some of the people all of the time, but you can't fool all of the people all of the time". Not a single Wall Street banker has been held accountable for the grandest of frauds ever to be envisioned with the "credit default" scheme of knowingly selling bad mortgage as securities by hedgefunds and investment banks as securities that were the collective nest eggs of pension plans, university endowments, charity investment portfolios. No they got tax breaks, huge bonususe and had job security because they were the only ones who could "unwind such complicated programs". In the mean time goverment as well as private pensions took the hit, unemployment passed 10%, government of all sizes from small to large saw their budgets explode as a direct result. Through it all the we watched as on our elected leaders sold us out to the highest bidders. The "Wall Street Occupation" is just the eyes of the giant beast called populism opening to survey the damage, the sleeping body of organized labored is starting to stir as the collective minds race for solutions that seem so simple if it weren't for a political system bought and paid for to serve the wishes of the few rather than the needs of the many. These are indeed interesting times that we a bleesed with.
There is a certain "they're not on my team" reaction to the Occupy movement. While many seem to think the Occupy movement is a progressive / liberal / Democratic movement (and certainly there are those on the left, such as the AFL-CIO, who want to wiggle in), there is a prime message that aligns with the basic TP message. But "not on my team" thinking prevents people from seeing something like this as it really is, and instead causes them to find excuses to be against it.
I initially felt very good about the Tea Party, but then I saw it get swallowed up by GOP party machine making it completely useless as a reform movement. When you see Democratic activists and union types trying to wiggle their way into OWS it's not hard to imagine this effort will go down the same ineffectual and partisan-hackery way the Tea Party effort did.
How does one get away with calling people who are opposed to the financial system that has wrecked the economy anti-American. I find this modern day definition of patriotism to be insane. Didn't patriotism used to be caring about your fellow citizens and the well being of your nation? Now its screw your fellow citizen, everyone for themselves in a mad rat race to see who can get rich. And once you're rich, who cares what the rest of the country is dealing with. It seems to be the antithesis of patriotism to me.
Interesting and ironic you comments are Jeff. You expect us to read your overly long posts, but obviously by your comment here you have no idea what is posted in the link Howard provided or you wouldn't have posted your "warning"
Read it then see how silly your comment is.... The link only gives hard data on some of the complaints that members of OWS have TOLD the media they are protesting.
Funny how some people fear facts, just saying is all.
Jeff, your comment is a non-sequitur if in response to my most recent comment in this thread.
Of course I'm highly suspect of anything claiming to be from OWS. But then I haven't quoted or linked to anything claiming to come from OWS or even based on anything claiming to come from OWS.
I have linked to a story from an independent journalistic publication providing verified and verifiable facts and figures and charts and graphs.
I think they have many messages, i think the main one they as a group want is separation of corporation and state. Also for wall street to be held responsible for there. Unethical and morally wrong trading.
I don't know why I thought anything would be different after taking a break from posting on here for a while, but it is not. Kyle, my "warning" was a quote that Howard wrote to me in a previous post and I don't expect you to read my overly long posts, when you see my name simply skip over it and go on to a shorter one. And yes Howard it specifically addressed the double standard. I linked a website that most likely is associated with the OWS but perhaps as you said there is no defined foundation for the movement as of yet and you felt you needed to warn me about it's validity. You posted a link to an article where the author claimed to understand the root causes of OWS were and I simply and appropriately called you out on it. No one knows the root of the protesters anger because there is no commonality to base it on unless you rely solely on the mainstream media reporting of it. Now one thing I have discovered in my over two years posting on this site is that you are never wrong. Whether you think so or not, as founder, CEO, editor, and everything else at the Batavian, you have a bully pulpit. I don't mean that as an insult, it's just the nature of your position. You choose to use it at times to be arbiter of what is fact and what is fallacious. That is not debate. I thought this had the potential to be a forum for the open exchange of ideas and opinions, however more often than not when one disagrees with a poster, that person is simply marginalized or met with sharp sarcasm. I have been polite when I have disagreed with people and have apologized if I wasn't. I have been wrong in some of my posts and have said so and corrected it. Maybe my expectation that there is a forum out there where people can exchange opinions, and disagree without all the crap is far too lofty.
We are all our own worst enemies and our government reflects that. We all want everything for nothing. Blame Wall Street all you want, but we bought what they sold. 5 year adjustable mortgages with balloon payments--did we think it would go up for ever? But I can't afford a house--Come on! Everything is cheaper at Walmart--of course it is, but we have to wreck the environment and send all the jobs overseas to make it happen. Just keeping buying the crap. We're basically protesting our own mistakes. Look in the mirror.
Hey, why not why not Occupy College Campuses? College Tuition is an absolute joke and has risen faster than any other thing in the country--where's the Michael Moore documentary on that one? The college system has been fleecing people for years.
Nice self martyring speach Jeff......doesnt change the fact that you are comparing apples to oranges, and still doesnt look like you read the posting Howard made. No one knows exactly what the protestors are protesting about but there are good ideas, based on those protestors who have specifically said what they are protesting about this article that Howard pointed to details and breaks down into a more understandable format what those chosen issues that they have seen specific protestors speak about are.
As far as your characterizaion of this forum well that is he nature of open debate, Howard and I havent agreed on much but some issues we do. Same with others as well but maybe this isnt the place for you as you seem to be thin skinned and unable to take criticisms, especially when your ideas arent based on facts or you are presented with facts that dont agree with you. Everyone eventually gets marginallized or treated with sarcasm over some issue or another.
Its just a dodge in my opinion blaming Howard or categorizing this forum as not open. Anywhere you go your gonna get crap when you discuss issues as contemporary and volitile as what we deal with in the headlines today. Its an unfair and downright incorrect generaliztion to accuse Howard of censorship or using this as a "Bully Pulpit" As the only things I have seen him senor is outright hostile verbiage focused on individuals personally and in an inappropriate manner. Which will happen (and I have been asked to cease or remove posts like this so I know what I speak of)
So put the big boy pants on and stand on your position and defend it, or be educated to new facts that might be in opposition to your viewpoint and consider the possibility that you might be wrong. I might not be comfortable or a nice feeling but we are all wrong once in a while and none of us have the whole picture or all the facts.
Jeff, my opinion expressed in comments counts no more or no less than anybody elses. You say, I'm "never wrong." Well, I could say the same thing about you, as your comment above demonstrates. You seem to have a real problem with people disagreeing with you. You say you want free and open debate, but then when people disagree with you or argue with you, then somehow your right to your opinion is being abridged. How is that debate if we all must agree with Jeff?
All I do is express my opinion and then stand by it and defend it. That doesn't make me "never wrong." That makes me a person with an opinion. If you can't defend your opinions with equal vigor, that's your problem to deal with, not mine.
The Batavian is by design a community of people of diverse political views and opinions. The hope is we can all debate the issues of the day without personal rancor and with a modicum of both civility and informed opinion so that we all might become a little better informed. Steel sharpening steel, as they say.
If debate isn't your cup of tea, there are echo chambers available such as Free Republic.
I can't ever recall ever personally insulting you, telling you that you don't have a right to your opinion or in any way censoring your opinion. You've always been afforded here the same open forum available to everybody else. Your thoughts or opinions are always welcome. That doesn't mean I or anybody else is obligated to agree with them.
In democracies we should not need "Authorized" demonstration, also I went to Zuccotti Park on Thursday / Friday and Saturday, there was ZERO drug use. It was a very peaceful area, lots of debating, lots of police but a very nice atmosphere.
Where's the flowers, the pot
Where's the flowers, the pot and Jimi Hendrix when you need them?? It's just history repeating.
Just a bunch of hypocrites.
Just a bunch of hypocrites. I wonder how many of these protesters of "corporate greed" buy ipods/phones, nike's, and other big corporate name brands to keep their social standing among their friends? Just like the people that rail against buying foreign goods, yet they're the first ones to buy a toyota, honda, kia etc and to justify this, they all say the same thing " they're built in the USA". That might be true, but their profits go to their mother country.
You can be against corporate
You can be against corporate greed and still own an iPod. The iPod is not a product of TARP or some other bailout program.
Just a bunch of kids and
Just a bunch of kids and dissatified adults with the decisions they made in their lives. They want to transfer blame to the Government and DEMAND that the wrongs in their lives be made right by the same. The one that stands out in my mind,is the young adult that DEMANDS that the Government pay off his $80K college loan because he can not find a job. Sorry, bud, what did you major in at college; the Humanites?
With the way the Arab Spring
With the way the Arab Spring has gone, not a great comparison.
You can't make a smart phone
You can't make a smart phone out of hemp fibers and morning glory seeds. This movement is being driven and coordinated via the web. iPhones and the like are sort of necessary.
Interesting, we now have
Interesting, we now have arrests in NYC, Washington DC and now Boston. Some might be unjustified, but we are seeing a small trend.
Seems like the Tea Party
Seems like the Tea Party movement was more about taxpayers who wanted accountability for there tax dollars..More of an older crowd..This thing seems more about those who don't pay taxes and seem to think that the government owes them something..Younger crowd....
John, how do you define a
John, how do you define a justified arrest? One that is made because somebody isn't obeying some unconstitutional "free speech zone" or a failure to disperse while exercising a First Amendment protected right to assembly, or ... ?
Yup, there's the new
Yup, there's the new ridiculous talking point: People are getting arrested so they must be bad people...
When 700 people were arrested on the Brooklyn Bridge, it was because the police played pied piper and led them right to the restricted zone so they would have cause to make the arrests. There is video documentation of this. Welcome to the internet age.
In Chicago the police are bringing the occupiers coffee.
In Seattle the police are arresting people because they're on the grass. (Get off my lawn!!!)
In Boston last night, they were arresting people apparently just for the hell of it after the occupiers started a second camp.
In Buffalo, the police haven't done anything other than honk their horns in support.
The list goes on, but there have been no incidents of occupier fueled violence. There have been incidents of undercover police and FBI agents attempting to start violence from within the crowd (also video documented.)
Howard, I was making a point
Howard,
I was making a point that some of the Occupy crowd claim that many of the arrests were unjustified.
I would say that blocking a public bridge, a road or a public building, and interfering with others unfettered access to them would be a justified arrest. And now we have more arrest today in DC. Just comparing it to the Tea Party demonstrations.
Maybe not the whole smart
Maybe not the whole smart phone Chris, but anything made out of plastic can be made with Hemp.
(No subject)
[video:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HzfR_7O3JJ4]
(No subject)
[video:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ptBR9PPonPY]
I see alot of out of hand
I see alot of out of hand dismissal of this movement. While I agree that the Arab Spring movement isnt really a good comparison, it does seem to me to be a similar movement of citizen displeasure, like the Tea Party movement, while as some have characterized TP as older taxpayers wanting accountability for their tax dollars.
While the Occupy Wall Street movement is marginalized using generalization type statements like its just kids wanting the Govt to pay for their educations. Its funny that our local commentators can come to this conclusion while the media reports that there are so many varied answers to what they are exactly protesting...(The biggest of which they focus on is Wall St/Big Business and Banks manipulating the market through speculation among other things) And I have barely seen mention that Govt needs to pay their student loans.
This is BS in my view, one thing we can all agree upon is that the hand in hand games of corruption that big corporate businesses and the Govt play with our tax dollars aren't the way the system was supposed to work. I hear the arguments that increasing the tax on the rich isnt fair BS but as has been proven most big businesses dont even pay taxes, in fact they still get minimal amounts back. Banks played games with taking risk on mortgages, but when the shoe drops and time to pay the piper, in comes the Govt to bail them out. We allow it to happen, the TP was a first step but they allowed the political machines to come in and dilute their message and marginalize their cause. The way I see it it might take a younger minds like we are seeing to keep this Occupy movement just disorganized and spread out enough to still be getting a message across but scaring the big political machines and such away from coming in and "taking over the message" due to the lack of crystal clear message that they can manipulate.
As I mentioned to Chris C in earlier posts on another subject, maybe this is the seed of true sweeping change that will finally get the attention of our so-called representative and might stat putting the fires of corruption out and get us back to a fair system again.
Good comment Kyle. I'm not
Good comment Kyle. I'm not really paying enough attention to this movement to have an opinion. I do think that both the root of the original tea party protests and the occupy movement are against the unholy alliance between the political parties and big corporate interests. If the tea party originators and the occupyers can find enough common ground through their disaffection, then look out status quo. I am praying for it.
(No subject)
[video:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ndzKAaZ3prs]
What's so bad about pot,
What's so bad about pot, flowers and Jimi Hendrix?
"What's so bad about pot,
"What's so bad about pot, flowers and Jimi Hendrix?"
Absolutely nothing, other than you can't use any of the above to LiveStream an Occupation. :)
The sleeping giant of real
The sleeping giant of real populism is rising out of the majorities realization that corporations and their minions have been running a crooked game treating the majority like rubes at a carnival. The "Tea Party" was bought and paid for by the Koch brothers with well polished shills like Dick Armey, Sarah Palen, Sean Hannity, Glenn Beck et al giving the fair and balanced view of the worl dy Roger Ailes and Rupert Murdoch. The ersatz populist movement of the astro-turf elements of the "Tea Party Movement" has been exposed as a fraud, their all to clever schemes revealed as Wisconsin Governor Scott Walker (R) in a telephone interview with Ian Murphy posing as one of the Koch brothers, Sarah Palen(R) candidate, or the Paul Ryan (R) budget plan passed by the R's in the House of representitives to turn Medicare into a discount coupon plan.
Pres. Abe Lincoln once remarked that "You can fool all of the people some of the time, and some of the people all of the time, but you can't fool all of the people all of the time". Not a single Wall Street banker has been held accountable for the grandest of frauds ever to be envisioned with the "credit default" scheme of knowingly selling bad mortgage as securities by hedgefunds and investment banks as securities that were the collective nest eggs of pension plans, university endowments, charity investment portfolios. No they got tax breaks, huge bonususe and had job security because they were the only ones who could "unwind such complicated programs". In the mean time goverment as well as private pensions took the hit, unemployment passed 10%, government of all sizes from small to large saw their budgets explode as a direct result. Through it all the we watched as on our elected leaders sold us out to the highest bidders. The "Wall Street Occupation" is just the eyes of the giant beast called populism opening to survey the damage, the sleeping body of organized labored is starting to stir as the collective minds race for solutions that seem so simple if it weren't for a political system bought and paid for to serve the wishes of the few rather than the needs of the many. These are indeed interesting times that we a bleesed with.
Good, post, Kyle. There is a
Good, post, Kyle.
There is a certain "they're not on my team" reaction to the Occupy movement. While many seem to think the Occupy movement is a progressive / liberal / Democratic movement (and certainly there are those on the left, such as the AFL-CIO, who want to wiggle in), there is a prime message that aligns with the basic TP message. But "not on my team" thinking prevents people from seeing something like this as it really is, and instead causes them to find excuses to be against it.
I initially felt very good about the Tea Party, but then I saw it get swallowed up by GOP party machine making it completely useless as a reform movement. When you see Democratic activists and union types trying to wiggle their way into OWS it's not hard to imagine this effort will go down the same ineffectual and partisan-hackery way the Tea Party effort did.
How does one get away with
How does one get away with calling people who are opposed to the financial system that has wrecked the economy anti-American. I find this modern day definition of patriotism to be insane. Didn't patriotism used to be caring about your fellow citizens and the well being of your nation? Now its screw your fellow citizen, everyone for themselves in a mad rat race to see who can get rich. And once you're rich, who cares what the rest of the country is dealing with. It seems to be the antithesis of patriotism to me.
Here's some charts and graphs
Here's some charts and graphs that pretty much explain what's fueling OWS.
http://www.businessinsider.com/what-wall-street-protesters-are-so-angry…
Howard, be highly suspect of
Howard, be highly suspect of any written statements claiming to represent OWS, since OWS has no official spokesperson, etc.
Interesting and ironic you
Interesting and ironic you comments are Jeff. You expect us to read your overly long posts, but obviously by your comment here you have no idea what is posted in the link Howard provided or you wouldn't have posted your "warning"
Read it then see how silly your comment is.... The link only gives hard data on some of the complaints that members of OWS have TOLD the media they are protesting.
Funny how some people fear facts, just saying is all.
Jeff, your comment is a
Jeff, your comment is a non-sequitur if in response to my most recent comment in this thread.
Of course I'm highly suspect of anything claiming to be from OWS. But then I haven't quoted or linked to anything claiming to come from OWS or even based on anything claiming to come from OWS.
I have linked to a story from an independent journalistic publication providing verified and verifiable facts and figures and charts and graphs.
So I'm baffled as to what you're trying to say.
I think they have many
I think they have many messages, i think the main one they as a group want is separation of corporation and state. Also for wall street to be held responsible for there. Unethical and morally wrong trading.
I don't know why I thought
I don't know why I thought anything would be different after taking a break from posting on here for a while, but it is not. Kyle, my "warning" was a quote that Howard wrote to me in a previous post and I don't expect you to read my overly long posts, when you see my name simply skip over it and go on to a shorter one. And yes Howard it specifically addressed the double standard. I linked a website that most likely is associated with the OWS but perhaps as you said there is no defined foundation for the movement as of yet and you felt you needed to warn me about it's validity. You posted a link to an article where the author claimed to understand the root causes of OWS were and I simply and appropriately called you out on it. No one knows the root of the protesters anger because there is no commonality to base it on unless you rely solely on the mainstream media reporting of it. Now one thing I have discovered in my over two years posting on this site is that you are never wrong. Whether you think so or not, as founder, CEO, editor, and everything else at the Batavian, you have a bully pulpit. I don't mean that as an insult, it's just the nature of your position. You choose to use it at times to be arbiter of what is fact and what is fallacious. That is not debate. I thought this had the potential to be a forum for the open exchange of ideas and opinions, however more often than not when one disagrees with a poster, that person is simply marginalized or met with sharp sarcasm. I have been polite when I have disagreed with people and have apologized if I wasn't. I have been wrong in some of my posts and have said so and corrected it. Maybe my expectation that there is a forum out there where people can exchange opinions, and disagree without all the crap is far too lofty.
We are all our own worst
We are all our own worst enemies and our government reflects that. We all want everything for nothing. Blame Wall Street all you want, but we bought what they sold. 5 year adjustable mortgages with balloon payments--did we think it would go up for ever? But I can't afford a house--Come on! Everything is cheaper at Walmart--of course it is, but we have to wreck the environment and send all the jobs overseas to make it happen. Just keeping buying the crap. We're basically protesting our own mistakes. Look in the mirror.
Hey, why not why not Occupy College Campuses? College Tuition is an absolute joke and has risen faster than any other thing in the country--where's the Michael Moore documentary on that one? The college system has been fleecing people for years.
Nice self martyring speach
Nice self martyring speach Jeff......doesnt change the fact that you are comparing apples to oranges, and still doesnt look like you read the posting Howard made. No one knows exactly what the protestors are protesting about but there are good ideas, based on those protestors who have specifically said what they are protesting about this article that Howard pointed to details and breaks down into a more understandable format what those chosen issues that they have seen specific protestors speak about are.
As far as your characterizaion of this forum well that is he nature of open debate, Howard and I havent agreed on much but some issues we do. Same with others as well but maybe this isnt the place for you as you seem to be thin skinned and unable to take criticisms, especially when your ideas arent based on facts or you are presented with facts that dont agree with you. Everyone eventually gets marginallized or treated with sarcasm over some issue or another.
Its just a dodge in my opinion blaming Howard or categorizing this forum as not open. Anywhere you go your gonna get crap when you discuss issues as contemporary and volitile as what we deal with in the headlines today. Its an unfair and downright incorrect generaliztion to accuse Howard of censorship or using this as a "Bully Pulpit" As the only things I have seen him senor is outright hostile verbiage focused on individuals personally and in an inappropriate manner. Which will happen (and I have been asked to cease or remove posts like this so I know what I speak of)
So put the big boy pants on and stand on your position and defend it, or be educated to new facts that might be in opposition to your viewpoint and consider the possibility that you might be wrong. I might not be comfortable or a nice feeling but we are all wrong once in a while and none of us have the whole picture or all the facts.
(No subject)
[video:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RGRXCgMdz9A&feature=player_detailpage]
Jeff, my opinion expressed in
Jeff, my opinion expressed in comments counts no more or no less than anybody elses. You say, I'm "never wrong." Well, I could say the same thing about you, as your comment above demonstrates. You seem to have a real problem with people disagreeing with you. You say you want free and open debate, but then when people disagree with you or argue with you, then somehow your right to your opinion is being abridged. How is that debate if we all must agree with Jeff?
All I do is express my opinion and then stand by it and defend it. That doesn't make me "never wrong." That makes me a person with an opinion. If you can't defend your opinions with equal vigor, that's your problem to deal with, not mine.
The Batavian is by design a community of people of diverse political views and opinions. The hope is we can all debate the issues of the day without personal rancor and with a modicum of both civility and informed opinion so that we all might become a little better informed. Steel sharpening steel, as they say.
If debate isn't your cup of tea, there are echo chambers available such as Free Republic.
I can't ever recall ever personally insulting you, telling you that you don't have a right to your opinion or in any way censoring your opinion. You've always been afforded here the same open forum available to everybody else. Your thoughts or opinions are always welcome. That doesn't mean I or anybody else is obligated to agree with them.
Timothy, you may be confusing
Timothy, you may be confusing Wall Street with Madison Avenue; that's okay, though, the human counterparts tend to wear the same labels!
In democracies we should not
In democracies we should not need "Authorized" demonstration, also I went to Zuccotti Park on Thursday / Friday and Saturday, there was ZERO drug use. It was a very peaceful area, lots of debating, lots of police but a very nice atmosphere.
[video:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qLnzMN2_Vd0]
That was entertaining.
That was entertaining.