This is the most irresponsible, do nothing Congress in my lifetime.....actually the last one wasn't much better at getting anything done other than help the well-heeled and corprations screw the country at large.....
This is what you get when a party decides it's politically beneficial to destroy our economy to gain power. The Republicans created this artificial crisis and don't have enough control to end it.
Bea,
Many Democrats, Nancy Pelosi being one, have said not to touch Social Security, in this discussion, period. They say it just fine and fully funded.
But Obama recently said he could not guarantee SS checks would go out in August if he is not allowed to borrow more money. Why should we have to borrow money to pay SS?
Who is telling the truth, Congressional Democrats or Obama?
I dont want the tea party and republicans to shut down the gov't. (although with the current incompetent man at the helm it may not be the worse thing to happen) I simply want them to do the job they were sent there to do, simply to keep the spendthrift democrats at bay and take that checkbook with all the blank signed checks out of obama's hands and slap him upside his head with it.
Look no further than the state you and i call home. New york and california are the 2 worse finacially "effed up" states in the country and for decades during every election they have been BLUE states. If that does not show you which parry lacks fiscal know how then nothing will.
Why oh why cant the gov't simply run the country like you or I would run our own household budgets?
I think the Democrats were pushing pretty hard to get lending regulations relaxed so that more people would qualify to borrow money for homes. This was the largest piece of the puzzle that makes up our current economic woes. Had the financial institutions been kept from relaxing their lending standards we would not have had the sub-prime mortgage disaster.
Don't get me wrong, the republicans hands are not free from filth in this matter either. I'm just pointing out that the democrats played a large part in the matter. The republicans did not single handedly destroy the economy as you claim.
We can argue about left and right, blue and red all we want, but the bottom line is special interests. Both parties are guilty of pandering to all manner of those who fund the campaigns, because both parties are obsessed with winning at all cost, on every single issue it seems. They will jump in bed with whatever devil will help them win elections, majorities and any bill that furthers the party's agenda in any way. Our Congress doesn't give a rat's tail about what is good for the American people. John Boehner, Eric Cantor, Nancy Pelosi, Steny Hoyer, Mitch McConnell, Harry Reid et al only care about winning, nothing else.
Good point John; now some facts about Social Security:
Franklin Roosevelt, a Democrat, introduced the Social
Security (FICA) Program. He promised:
1.) That participation in the Program would be
Completely voluntary,
No longer Voluntary
2.) That the participants would only have to pay
1% of the first $1,400 of their annual Incomes into the Program,
Now 7.65%
on the first $90,000
3.) That the money the participants elected to put into the Program would be deductible from their income for tax purposes each year,
No longer tax deductible
4.) That the money the participants put into the independent 'Trust Fund' rather than into the general operating fund, and therefore, would only be used to fund the Social Security
Retirement Program, and no other Government program, and,
Under Johnson the money was moved to The General Fund and SPENT!!!
5.) That the annuity payments to the retirees would never be taxed as income.
Under Clinton & Gore
Up to 85% of your Social Security can be Taxed
Since many of us have paid into FICA for years and are
now receiving a Social Security check every month --
and then finding that we are getting taxed on 85% of
the money we paid to the Federal government to 'put
away' -- you may be interested in the following:
Q: Which Political Party took Social Security from the
independent 'Trust Fund' and put it into the general fund so that Congress could spend it?
A: It was Lyndon Johnson and the democratically controlled House and Senate.
Q: Which Political Party decided to start giving annuity payments to immigrants?
AND MY FAVORITE:
A: That's right!
Jimmy Carter and the Democratic Party. Immigrants moved into this country, and at age 65, began to receive Social Security payments! The Democratic Party gave these payments to them, even though they never paid a dime into it!
Then, after violating the original contract (FICA), the
Democrats turn around and tell you that the Republicans want
to take your Social Security away!
Jeremiah, there is little doubt in my mind that both parties had a hand in our economic problems. I was referring to this latest fake political crisis. It was created by the Tea Party or the ruling class of the Republican party. These people created a budget a few months ago and passed it through both houses. Now they have decided to create political theater by not borrowing the money to pay for their bloated budget. They need to put their big boy pants on and meet somewhere in the middle or quit.
Tim, how could someone vote Democrat again? If you think Republicans or Tea Party types are coming out of this in better shape, it's time to turn off the talk radio. All I see at the office is Republicans losing support. To most people, negotiation means meeting in the middle. If they can't do that then they need to leave the job to the grown ups.
Meeting in the middle Charlie? When you owe WAY more money than you have coming in because your country is run by a man that thinks the best thing to do at time of fiscal crisis is to spend your way out then yeah its time like you say to put on the big boy pants, but its the dems wearing the jammies, they will not stop until this country is bankrupt (or should i say even more bankrupt than it already is). The republicans and especially the tea party are the only hope we have now. Like I said before, if only the gov't could run the country like you and I have to run our households....responsibly.
Also Charlie another point you may be missing is because obama screwed things up and spent SO much money the first couple years in office, the REASON why the republicans and tea partiers took the house was because the people said STOP the spending, that means STOP the spending, not spend money for foolish things less, it means STOP spending it on foolish things all together. This is why i believe the reps and tp's are being so tough on this, they KNOW why they were voted in, and know what a serious problem this really is. If you cant see that trillions of dollars worth of debt is not serious or "made up" then you got blinders on.
I just cant get past the fact that you think this is not a real crisis. I would not let my personal finances get out of whack with debt and i bet you wouldnt either. So how is it that trillions of dollars in the hole as a country is not a crisis to you?
And before you bother pointing out the fact that we got involved in 2 wars under a republicans watch was the start of this financial downward spirial, let me just say that i acknowledge that :)
Tim, I can't stand either party but, the Tea/Republicans are taking the beating on this one. The fact is they don't run the whole government so, they have to compromise. They won't do that and most Americans especially people in the middle look down on that. Only kids cry about not getting their way. They don't seem to understand it's a long term solution, not a quick fix. If change is going to come it will be in small bites. For heavens sake they got Obama to give on a lot more than I thought but, again they are to stupid to deal.
Tim, this is a real crisis but, it's a manufactured one. The Republicans won't raise the debt ceiling that their budget calls for. They created the crisis for political purposes and have no idea how to call their own bluff before driving us off the cliff. They are doing damage to themselves everyday this goes on.
Everyone hears the "stop the spending" line. What we are going to hear and see on TV for months is little old lady's who can't pay for drugs and food. Americans don't want cuts to Social Security and my guess is anyone who is involved in doing that is done politically.
One interesting thing you said Charlie was that this wont be a quick fix but a long term solution. I believe and i truly believe the tea partiers/republicans also feel that we dont have enough time to wait for a long term solution, the quick fix or at least as close as we can get to a quick fix may just divert a potential disaster.
Also i really believe that the more the democrats don't take this serious enough, the more it will hurt them. I get what your saying about the republicans not having the majority but why should they bend? The reason they were elected was to bring some sort of sanity to the out of control spending of the gov't, if they start "bending" it will hurt them way more than you think not reaching across the aisle will. The american people are sick and tired of the spendthrift gov't and the more the republicans are asked to bend the more its going to hurt the dems cause they will be looked upon as not taking this serious enough.
Tim, the majority opinion isn't that we can cut our way out of this problem. We should have a balanced approach. As long as Tea Party people are standing in the way, there will not be a solution. Instead of being the answer, the Tea party is the problem.
Do you really think that gutting Social Security is the answer? How does not having a space program help our country? With the Tea Party calling the shots a lot of what we took for granted as Americans will soon be gone.
Actually Tim the Republicans took the house because Americans want balance. Our government works best when it's run from the center. Americans fear one party rule. Now that the Republicans have become unable to compromise a lot of us will be unwilling to so easily pull their lever. The inability to compromise will have a damaging effect on the Republican side ,Rush is wrong. Americans will not stand for deep cuts without a sence of fairness or balance.
There is nothing truly funnier than listening to people defending their party. The Tea Party Republicans are as worthless as the Democrats.
Tim, do you honestly believe that the Republican'ts want to really cut? I mean sure as long as its not to their big money supporters like oil. Please. Whatever legitimacy the Tea Party carried as a citizen movement has been watered down by its ownership of the far right. As far as I'm concerned "Tea Party" is the same as "Ultra Conservative", and I've been told how to live my enough by those moral junkies thank you.
The debt ceiling has to be raised. After that, we need to get out of other nation's problems and take that money with us. All programs....again, ALL programs must be cut. Corporate Welfare must end. No more padding the pockets of companies that are making record profits.
Well Phil, I agree with a some of what you say, but nailing businesses with big tax hikes is only going to hurt job creation in this country and at the end of the day THAT should be the number one issue, and it should be a bi-partisan one and a common sense one. I also agree that not only should we scale back as far as puting our noses in other country's businesses but we need to take our jobs back from other countrys as well, and quick.
Just for the record Phil, yeah i do believe the republicans DO want to scale back spending in a big way, i really do, but one thing i will agree with you is that oil companies really need to stop influencing both sides in washington. EVERYONE (both parties) have thier hands in the oil companies pockets and that does need to stop.
Kinda funny how when the price of a barrel of oil goes up you IMMEDIATELY see it at the pump and the grocery store, ect but when that price goes down it takes a long time if at all to see it trickle down to "main street".
Also I do agree that ALL programs do need to be cut as well, I know special interests on both sides are clouding the real issues and its discusting.
Charlie,
You keep preaching a "balanced approach", what you call balance I call frivolous spending on BOTH sides that has been going on for WAY too long. That is why we need a radical change, one that calls for tightening the old belt very tight and making due with the bare necessities. As a dem you may very well disagree with me, but the gov't needs to shrink in a massive way and i believe they should be there for one reason and one reason only...DEFENSE. Imagine if it was run the way the founding fathers intended and if each individual state was actually allowed to run things the way they see fit and the gov't made sure we were safe and left the rest to "we the people".
Two things...I think Republicans want to cut too, but not at the expense of their campaign contributors. In my mind that equates them to the Democrat's approach, which again, is why I find it funny listening to people go after to each other. They're one in the same.
Tim, I learned a very valuable lesson during my time on council. You can have all the ideas you want but, your only going to get half. That's how our system works. That's democracy, that's what the grown-ups figure out real quick.
There is something broke in the minds of these moral conservative Tea Party types. They act like we live in a dictatorship and they hold all the power. That rubs people the wrong way. My guess is they are going to take the beating of their lives during the next election. You might not believe it but, I think that's a bad thing. The Tea Party did get the government to talk about cuts but, then went and peed all over themselves getting an actual deal done. We need adults in Congress.
I = Incomplete
I = Incomplete
Cant believe there are votes
Cant believe there are votes in the A option :\
This is the most
This is the most irresponsible, do nothing Congress in my lifetime.....actually the last one wasn't much better at getting anything done other than help the well-heeled and corprations screw the country at large.....
This is what you get when a
This is what you get when a party decides it's politically beneficial to destroy our economy to gain power. The Republicans created this artificial crisis and don't have enough control to end it.
Congress appeals to me like
Congress appeals to me like ketchup on bologna sandwiches. Sounds bad enough and leaves a bad taste in your mouth everytime.
I can't fathom how anyone
I can't fathom how anyone could possibly vote democrat again after this pathetic display. :(
Tim, you wanted the Tea Party
Tim, you wanted the Tea Party and the Republicans to shut down the government?
Interesting. How would that benefit you?
Ron, I believe you owe
Ron, I believe you owe bologna and ketchup apologies
Bea, Many Democrats, Nancy
Bea,
Many Democrats, Nancy Pelosi being one, have said not to touch Social Security, in this discussion, period. They say it just fine and fully funded.
But Obama recently said he could not guarantee SS checks would go out in August if he is not allowed to borrow more money. Why should we have to borrow money to pay SS?
Who is telling the truth, Congressional Democrats or Obama?
My darling liberal Bea, I
My darling liberal Bea,
I dont want the tea party and republicans to shut down the gov't. (although with the current incompetent man at the helm it may not be the worse thing to happen) I simply want them to do the job they were sent there to do, simply to keep the spendthrift democrats at bay and take that checkbook with all the blank signed checks out of obama's hands and slap him upside his head with it.
Look no further than the state you and i call home. New york and california are the 2 worse finacially "effed up" states in the country and for decades during every election they have been BLUE states. If that does not show you which parry lacks fiscal know how then nothing will.
Why oh why cant the gov't simply run the country like you or I would run our own household budgets?
Charlie, I think the
Charlie,
I think the Democrats were pushing pretty hard to get lending regulations relaxed so that more people would qualify to borrow money for homes. This was the largest piece of the puzzle that makes up our current economic woes. Had the financial institutions been kept from relaxing their lending standards we would not have had the sub-prime mortgage disaster.
Don't get me wrong, the
Don't get me wrong, the republicans hands are not free from filth in this matter either. I'm just pointing out that the democrats played a large part in the matter. The republicans did not single handedly destroy the economy as you claim.
We can argue about left and
We can argue about left and right, blue and red all we want, but the bottom line is special interests. Both parties are guilty of pandering to all manner of those who fund the campaigns, because both parties are obsessed with winning at all cost, on every single issue it seems. They will jump in bed with whatever devil will help them win elections, majorities and any bill that furthers the party's agenda in any way. Our Congress doesn't give a rat's tail about what is good for the American people. John Boehner, Eric Cantor, Nancy Pelosi, Steny Hoyer, Mitch McConnell, Harry Reid et al only care about winning, nothing else.
Ditto.
Ditto.
Good point John; now some
Good point John; now some facts about Social Security:
Franklin Roosevelt, a Democrat, introduced the Social
Security (FICA) Program. He promised:
1.) That participation in the Program would be
Completely voluntary,
No longer Voluntary
2.) That the participants would only have to pay
1% of the first $1,400 of their annual Incomes into the Program,
Now 7.65%
on the first $90,000
3.) That the money the participants elected to put into the Program would be deductible from their income for tax purposes each year,
No longer tax deductible
4.) That the money the participants put into the independent 'Trust Fund' rather than into the general operating fund, and therefore, would only be used to fund the Social Security
Retirement Program, and no other Government program, and,
Under Johnson the money was moved to The General Fund and SPENT!!!
5.) That the annuity payments to the retirees would never be taxed as income.
Under Clinton & Gore
Up to 85% of your Social Security can be Taxed
Since many of us have paid into FICA for years and are
now receiving a Social Security check every month --
and then finding that we are getting taxed on 85% of
the money we paid to the Federal government to 'put
away' -- you may be interested in the following:
Q: Which Political Party took Social Security from the
independent 'Trust Fund' and put it into the general fund so that Congress could spend it?
A: It was Lyndon Johnson and the democratically controlled House and Senate.
------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- --
Q: Which Political Party eliminated the income tax deduction for Social Security (FICA) withholding?
A: The Democratic Party.
------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -----
Q: Which Political Party started taxing Social Security annuities?
A: The Democratic Party, with Al Gore casting the 'tie-breaking' deciding vote as President of the Senate, while he was Vice President of the US
------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -
Q: Which Political Party decided to start giving annuity payments to immigrants?
AND MY FAVORITE:
A: That's right!
Jimmy Carter and the Democratic Party. Immigrants moved into this country, and at age 65, began to receive Social Security payments! The Democratic Party gave these payments to them, even though they never paid a dime into it!
Then, after violating the original contract (FICA), the
Democrats turn around and tell you that the Republicans want
to take your Social Security away!
Jeremiah, there is little
Jeremiah, there is little doubt in my mind that both parties had a hand in our economic problems. I was referring to this latest fake political crisis. It was created by the Tea Party or the ruling class of the Republican party. These people created a budget a few months ago and passed it through both houses. Now they have decided to create political theater by not borrowing the money to pay for their bloated budget. They need to put their big boy pants on and meet somewhere in the middle or quit.
Tim, how could someone vote
Tim, how could someone vote Democrat again? If you think Republicans or Tea Party types are coming out of this in better shape, it's time to turn off the talk radio. All I see at the office is Republicans losing support. To most people, negotiation means meeting in the middle. If they can't do that then they need to leave the job to the grown ups.
Meeting in the middle
Meeting in the middle Charlie? When you owe WAY more money than you have coming in because your country is run by a man that thinks the best thing to do at time of fiscal crisis is to spend your way out then yeah its time like you say to put on the big boy pants, but its the dems wearing the jammies, they will not stop until this country is bankrupt (or should i say even more bankrupt than it already is). The republicans and especially the tea party are the only hope we have now. Like I said before, if only the gov't could run the country like you and I have to run our households....responsibly.
Also Charlie another point
Also Charlie another point you may be missing is because obama screwed things up and spent SO much money the first couple years in office, the REASON why the republicans and tea partiers took the house was because the people said STOP the spending, that means STOP the spending, not spend money for foolish things less, it means STOP spending it on foolish things all together. This is why i believe the reps and tp's are being so tough on this, they KNOW why they were voted in, and know what a serious problem this really is. If you cant see that trillions of dollars worth of debt is not serious or "made up" then you got blinders on.
I just cant get past the fact that you think this is not a real crisis. I would not let my personal finances get out of whack with debt and i bet you wouldnt either. So how is it that trillions of dollars in the hole as a country is not a crisis to you?
And before you bother pointing out the fact that we got involved in 2 wars under a republicans watch was the start of this financial downward spirial, let me just say that i acknowledge that :)
Tim, I can't stand either
Tim, I can't stand either party but, the Tea/Republicans are taking the beating on this one. The fact is they don't run the whole government so, they have to compromise. They won't do that and most Americans especially people in the middle look down on that. Only kids cry about not getting their way. They don't seem to understand it's a long term solution, not a quick fix. If change is going to come it will be in small bites. For heavens sake they got Obama to give on a lot more than I thought but, again they are to stupid to deal.
Tim, this is a real crisis
Tim, this is a real crisis but, it's a manufactured one. The Republicans won't raise the debt ceiling that their budget calls for. They created the crisis for political purposes and have no idea how to call their own bluff before driving us off the cliff. They are doing damage to themselves everyday this goes on.
Everyone hears the "stop the spending" line. What we are going to hear and see on TV for months is little old lady's who can't pay for drugs and food. Americans don't want cuts to Social Security and my guess is anyone who is involved in doing that is done politically.
One interesting thing you
One interesting thing you said Charlie was that this wont be a quick fix but a long term solution. I believe and i truly believe the tea partiers/republicans also feel that we dont have enough time to wait for a long term solution, the quick fix or at least as close as we can get to a quick fix may just divert a potential disaster.
Also i really believe that the more the democrats don't take this serious enough, the more it will hurt them. I get what your saying about the republicans not having the majority but why should they bend? The reason they were elected was to bring some sort of sanity to the out of control spending of the gov't, if they start "bending" it will hurt them way more than you think not reaching across the aisle will. The american people are sick and tired of the spendthrift gov't and the more the republicans are asked to bend the more its going to hurt the dems cause they will be looked upon as not taking this serious enough.
Tim, the majority opinion
Tim, the majority opinion isn't that we can cut our way out of this problem. We should have a balanced approach. As long as Tea Party people are standing in the way, there will not be a solution. Instead of being the answer, the Tea party is the problem.
Do you really think that gutting Social Security is the answer? How does not having a space program help our country? With the Tea Party calling the shots a lot of what we took for granted as Americans will soon be gone.
Actually Tim the Republicans
Actually Tim the Republicans took the house because Americans want balance. Our government works best when it's run from the center. Americans fear one party rule. Now that the Republicans have become unable to compromise a lot of us will be unwilling to so easily pull their lever. The inability to compromise will have a damaging effect on the Republican side ,Rush is wrong. Americans will not stand for deep cuts without a sence of fairness or balance.
There is nothing truly
There is nothing truly funnier than listening to people defending their party. The Tea Party Republicans are as worthless as the Democrats.
Tim, do you honestly believe that the Republican'ts want to really cut? I mean sure as long as its not to their big money supporters like oil. Please. Whatever legitimacy the Tea Party carried as a citizen movement has been watered down by its ownership of the far right. As far as I'm concerned "Tea Party" is the same as "Ultra Conservative", and I've been told how to live my enough by those moral junkies thank you.
The debt ceiling has to be raised. After that, we need to get out of other nation's problems and take that money with us. All programs....again, ALL programs must be cut. Corporate Welfare must end. No more padding the pockets of companies that are making record profits.
Well Phil, I agree with a
Well Phil, I agree with a some of what you say, but nailing businesses with big tax hikes is only going to hurt job creation in this country and at the end of the day THAT should be the number one issue, and it should be a bi-partisan one and a common sense one. I also agree that not only should we scale back as far as puting our noses in other country's businesses but we need to take our jobs back from other countrys as well, and quick.
Just for the record Phil, yeah i do believe the republicans DO want to scale back spending in a big way, i really do, but one thing i will agree with you is that oil companies really need to stop influencing both sides in washington. EVERYONE (both parties) have thier hands in the oil companies pockets and that does need to stop.
Kinda funny how when the price of a barrel of oil goes up you IMMEDIATELY see it at the pump and the grocery store, ect but when that price goes down it takes a long time if at all to see it trickle down to "main street".
Also I do agree that ALL programs do need to be cut as well, I know special interests on both sides are clouding the real issues and its discusting.
Charlie,
You keep preaching a "balanced approach", what you call balance I call frivolous spending on BOTH sides that has been going on for WAY too long. That is why we need a radical change, one that calls for tightening the old belt very tight and making due with the bare necessities. As a dem you may very well disagree with me, but the gov't needs to shrink in a massive way and i believe they should be there for one reason and one reason only...DEFENSE. Imagine if it was run the way the founding fathers intended and if each individual state was actually allowed to run things the way they see fit and the gov't made sure we were safe and left the rest to "we the people".
Tim, Two things...I think
Tim,
Two things...I think Republicans want to cut too, but not at the expense of their campaign contributors. In my mind that equates them to the Democrat's approach, which again, is why I find it funny listening to people go after to each other. They're one in the same.
Second, I'm not a fan of raising taxes period, but can we be honest here? Do you think that Corporate America actually pays what their supposed rate is? Come on!
http://www.businesspundit.com/25-corporations-that-pay-less-taxes-than-…
There are some companies like GE (you know that REALLY big one) that didn't pay any taxes!
If you want to protect small business, cool, but this whole "poor big companies" spiel doesn't work cause it isn't true.
Tim, I learned a very
Tim, I learned a very valuable lesson during my time on council. You can have all the ideas you want but, your only going to get half. That's how our system works. That's democracy, that's what the grown-ups figure out real quick.
There is something broke in the minds of these moral conservative Tea Party types. They act like we live in a dictatorship and they hold all the power. That rubs people the wrong way. My guess is they are going to take the beating of their lives during the next election. You might not believe it but, I think that's a bad thing. The Tea Party did get the government to talk about cuts but, then went and peed all over themselves getting an actual deal done. We need adults in Congress.