Today's Poll: Which party controlling Congress would be best for the economy?

Historically, there's no clear winner. Congress works best for the economy when the parties collaborate, but that ain't going to happen any time soon.

On the Presidential level, the economy clearly does better under Democrats. This is compiled data from the last 40 years:

% Per Annum Democrat Republican
GDP Growth 4.1% 2.9%
Employment 2.9% 1.7%
CPI 4.0% 5.1%
DJIA 8.1% 6.5%
Dollar +0.8% -3.6%

Source: http://currencythoughts.com/2008/08/19/how-the-us-economy-performed-und…

We need moderates and less radicals on both sides. I feel this goes for politicians as well as the press and citizens. This divide we have created is crippling the county .

Well said Jim.

As is mentioned in the Federalist Papers, a divide in the country is good for it. More voices, less power behind each and therefore no radical shifts in government.

But in 2008 the voices were too one sided and Obama and his regime have moved so far from the Constitution that its likely never to swing back.

It’s the radical BS on both sides that is accomplishing nothing. This Constitution talk is nothing but, partisan propaganda. I’m sick of it.

Swing back? Peter, Bush had no regard for the Constitution either.

No its not propaganda. Its the truth, where in the constitution does it say you can force the citizenry to buy a product?

I didn't say that he did Dave.

If only both parties followed the Constitution and heeded Article 1, Section 8 for starters the economy would be going gangbusters. Government doesn't create any wealth it only consumes wealth. Too many politicians and the people who elect them think they know whats good for me and mine.

"Government's view of the economy can be summed up in a few short phrases: If it moves, tax it. If it keeps moving, regulate it. And if it stops moving, subsidize it.” Ronald Reagan

Peter, Bush bought 2 wars, and I think the human price tag is far to high, let alone the mess it has contributed to the economy.

The government is forcing us to buy a product? Like auto insurance?

What does that have to do with what I said Frank?

Jim auto insurance is needed only if you CHOOSE to drive a car. And only to pay for damage you cause to other people.

Health insurance is to pay for damage to you. And you have no choice in buying it or not.

And that is mandated on a state by state basis not by the Imperial Government.

Jim,
Yes, if you want to own a car and drive it, you will have to have auto insurance. But if for any reason you do not want to own a car, you are not required to have insurance.

But, under Obama, you are required to have health insurance. If you don't, you get fined and could be put in jail.

Peter; "But in 2008 the voices were too one sided and Obama and his regime have moved so far from the Constitution that its likely never to swing back."

I took that to infer that prior to 2008 we were following the constitution more closely. I agree, the pendulum has swung pretty high and instead of swinging back may in fact go over the top and start over.

OH I see so its like being taxed to take care of old people who did not work hard enough to save money. (statement is sarcastic)

As a society we work together and take care of each other. What is fair is often never accomplished when something goes to a committee. Social Security is one such program that many considered communistic, now try and get rid of it.. The health care plan as originally proposed by Reagan, Hilary or Obama is not what we have now. The system that was approved does very little.

I can get fined or put in jail for a lot of things the constitution say I can do. Its all politicians and special interest groups. Very little of any government is correct, just or for the people. I still like the US best.

I am no fan of Conservative Republicans, but yesterday as i was driving down to Fredonia I listened to an interview on NPR with Rep. Paul Ryan and Arthur Brooks of some Conservative Think Tank(oxymoron?). They were talking about Ryan's roadmap for the future. The man made a lot of sense, it was a great interview. Basically, he said that we are going off a cliff with spending and the way we finance our government and we should start dealing with it now and having an "Adult Conversation" instead of after a collapse. No argument there. He also said that he doesn't expect his proposal to be adopted, but he wants to get the debate started and hear other ideas so maybe we can find a solution that a majority in Congress can live with sooner rather than later. If I can find the audio for the interview, I'll post it for anyone who wants to listen. Agree or disagree with him, it needs attention now.
http://www.roadmap.republicans.budget.house.gov/

The audio of the Paul Ryan interview is here:
http://www.onpointradio.org/2010/09/paul-ryan-roadmap

Jim,
I am wondering, what does the Constitution say you can do that you can be put in jail for?

Peter, where in the Constitution does it say you are free?

http://americanhistory.about.com/od/usconstitution/f/slavery.htm

Peter, obviously you don't like Obama, and I didn't care much for GW. Thinking along the same lines as you, does the constitution give us the right to invade and occupy a foreign nation under false pretense, or are health care and war the policies of those we put in power, we the people put them in power.Obama care was never a secret unveiled only when he got in the white house, it was a large part of his campaign to get to the white house. If people didn't want it, how do you suppose he won the election?

I think Obama is in office because of Bush, people swung too far the other way and overcompensated.

While we're talking about impinging the average American's ability to survive in a depressed economy- why not mention the expansion of 1099s on business expenses over 600 dollars? How will this impact local musicians, handymen, small-scale farmers selling hay and other "under the table" enterprises to offset double-digit unemployment and no raises...

More Small Business Woe

A new tax law embodied in the Affordable Care Act will create mountains of additional paperwork for small business owners. Businesses and tax-exempt nonprofits will be required to submit IRS Form 1099s for any expenditure exceeding $600 a year for goods or services. The burden includes recording Employer Identification Number (EIN) or Taxpayer Identification Number (TIN) for all providers when the annual cost surpasses the $600 threshold.

An estimated 40 million small businesses and non-profits will face stiff penalties for failing to comply. This massive increase in filing requirements breaches computerized accounting; 1099 paperwork requires hand-generated reporting. Business offices will be forced to reprogram and overhaul their accounting procedures to comply.

A company that currently generates a dozen 1099s per year could file 600 reports when the system goes into effect in 2012. Although big business will see little change under the new law, small businesses, particularly those that farm out tax preparation at $74 per hour will feel more pain at tax time.

The new regulation was under advisement during the Bush administration. In preparation of the 2008 budget, discussions of a 'tax gap' - businesses not paying their fair share set the ball in motion. Tom Henschke, president of the Pennsylvania-based SMC Business Councils, one of the first organizations to offer analysis of the 2010 health care amendment noted, “…two administrations can claim credit for this."

CPAs are recommending clients begin handing out W-9 forms in advance of the new law. W-9s document tax identification data for withholding purposes. Many small businesses are behind the curve in preparation for the change. Although a tax gap surely exists- under-payment of $300 billion in federal taxes; penalizing small businesses, non-profits and local government with unreasonable cost and paperwork is onerous. Honest business people shouldn’t be punished to enable the IRS to ferret out tax evaders.

Congressman Scott Murphy who represents the Washington County region of New York authored H.R. 5982, the Small Business Tax Relief Act of 2010. His bill would have eliminated the 1099 reporting requirement for small businesses. H. R. 5982 would have also closed tax loopholes for corporations who ship jobs overseas. 5982 came to a vote in July, but failed to garner the two-thirds majority required to pass. Similar efforts are underway to raise the threshold to $5,000 or exclude businesses with less than 25 employees.

Those concerned with the impact of expanded 1099 filings on our communities should contact their member of Congress and refer to H. R. 5982.

Chuck,
Read the Declaration of Independence. It states I have a right to the pursuit if happiness. That right is given by god. Any government infringing upon those rights is to be altered or abolished and a new Government instituted.

Forcing me to spend my money in a way I don't see fit and not through at tax (though they are claiming it is which legally it is not) is an infringement upon that right.

Frank,
What Obama campaigned for is not what we got. And most people voted for him for superficial reasons, not his agenda.

Dave, I think Mr.Ryan speaks on behalf of where this nation is heading, and makes some very interesting points. I have no doubt that his outlook, under current policies is at the very least bleak.In my opinion I just feel we have already crossed the threshold, and it will take an act of God to take back our government.
Unlike our forefathers, we are now dealing with schooled politicians, who will not relinquish power without a fight. At any rate it made for some very intersting reading,and certainly an eye opener as well.
I would recommend reading this article to anyone who cares where our country is heading.I think many more politicians should join Mr. Ryan in this type of thinking, and hopefully, do so before it is to late
Jim, I believe you hit the nail on the head, but the other choices weren't the greatest either, which I feel was a contributing factor as well.

Peter! Baseball is still alive and well in Batavia and I see you are having some more healthy debate in the sense of Community that doesn't exist. To that I say, good.

Baseball in Batavia for at least another year, we actually get another chance to fill the seats and make a difference. What we need is some major offseason promotions to take into the new season next summer.

Peter, the end result wasn't what Obama campaigned for either, our two party leadership voted in the final package with all the trim.

Pete, you were talking about how the Constitution had been violated. That's straight out of the Republican Tea Party propaganda book. I don't care to hear party spin.

As for those of us who voted for Obama, you are right we didn't get what we wanted. I voted for him because I wanted full blown socialized medicine and for him to tax the hell out of anyone making over $250K a year, he has done neither. It's time to try a "trickle up" economy.

Charlie,
Be fair. The Dems kept saying Bush violated the Constitution also, right out of their play book. The other side is always violating it.

John, the truth be told, the Democrats pounded Bush every chance they got. It's also safe to say at this point, a lot of it was undeserved. Bush was right about the prison in Cuba, the pull out of Iraq, the surge and even the bailouts he started that ended the recession, at least on paper.

Moderation is key.

Chuck, taking other peoples money for your own means is still stealing regardless of what entity does it.

Your wealth envy is astonishing and horrifying.

The Constitution has been violated. It restricts government to the powers listed within. I don't see mange the nations heathcare as a listed power.

Pete, your lack of feel for "The Man's" foot on your neck is what is astonishing. What are you going to do when the CEO takes away your health care? Join a union?

I won't begrudge him thats for sure. I make myself worth more than what I am paid. Which is why I got two promotions and two raises last spring. No one has their boot on my neck except the oppressive levels of government I am under.

Yeah well, you're young yet, get back to us in 20 years on that one, Peter

Peter,

a few points,

1, with the pre-obamacare medical programs we ALL pay for the uninsured, either because they end up getting Medicaid, or they simply go to the hospital which cannot refuse them for inability to pay and then the hospital is forced to pass the costs on to those who can.

2 while the government does do things that aren't listed in the constitution, those are functions that have evolved over the 200+ year it has been around. The constitution is often referred to as a "living document" because it can have different interpretations and changes can be made. With that said, if I don't own a car should i demand a refund of my tax money that went to pay for the roads?

3 Government requires money to run, the only place they can raise revenue is taxes (or fee's) PERIOD. In reading your posts, both here and in other places, it seems you are opposed to all taxes and all things the Dems propose. You work hard for your money, so do I, and while I hate paying that tax bill every paycheck, i realize that one of the things that makes our country great is how we help our own. (of course one of the things that hurts us is those we help abusing the system, but that is another issue)

Personally, I think the things we are giving up for Obama care are not that great when we think about possible benefite.... In addition I feel that the things GW made us give up are far worse.

war under false pretenses, which have cost of Trillons and Trillions of dollars that WE DIDN'T HAVE and had to borrow,
http://costofwar.com/ (I tried to embed it, but couldn't figure it out)

plus the human toll of the dead. According to http://projects.washingtonpost.com/fallen/ as of September 19, 2010 a total of 5677 american soldiers were killed in the two wars. for what? am I any safer than I was on October 6, 2001 or March 18, 2003? are either of those countries any better off than they were ? sure some groups are but for alot of the people i'm not so sure.

It just leads me to wonder, what would those 5677 american soldiers contributed to our world? what problems could we have fixed in our own borders with those trillions of dollars? homelessness? cure a deadly disease? not have a recession?

and i'm going to skip my thoughts on bush's (un) Patriot act, I already wrote a book, i'd be on a series if I did that one....

and this isnt meant to be personal against you Peter, just felt like getting on the soap box for a few... Feel free to debate my points

on and I didnt answer Howard's question. I dont care which party is in power, as long as its the moderates in control. The radical dems and reps, liberals and conservatives are the true issue in this country IMO, however if i had to pick my poison i'd go dems, just like Dennis pointed out, we actually do better with them than the rep.

Bill,

1. You can save a lot in emergency rooms by requiring ID and citizenship or visa for all by grave injuries. The Republicans had other good ideas that were ignored because Obama wanted his stepping stone to Socialized Medicine.

2. All those activities not listed as a power of the federal government should be stopped. Like the EPA and Department of Education. And you still use products that are shipped on roads if you don't have a car. But most roads are paid for by gas taxes.

3. Government doesn't need to know how much water goes through my toilet or what light bulbs I use. They are intruding into areas they are not authorized by the Constitution to be in. If we slimmed it down to what it was designed to be I would have no issue funding it.

Iraq and Afghanistan wars were not under false pretenses. We have Saddam 6 months to move all his weapons and his generals have written books about him doing just that. Afghanistan was home to the Taliban which allowed Al Quesedilla to operate from their country and was where Bin Laden (whom I believe is dead but his body is buried in a bombed out cave, we have had no video of him in years) was.

The world is certainly safer without Saddam and with Bin Laden at the very least on the run. What ship has been bombed, what target was destroyed in the US by Bin Laden and his cronies since 9/11/01?

You will never fix homelessness, some people are just content to live on the street.

I am not a fan of the patriot act. I think citizens should not be subject to some of its provisions. But the result cannot be argued.

Pete, all the points you made are right out of the Republican handbook. Political parties need lots of cash and develop party platforms based on who feeds their addiction.
1. Republicans and their Tea Party friends are tools of the Insurance industry.
2,3. Republicans and their Tea Party friends don't like the EPA because they are the tools of the Chemical, logging, Oil and Energy industries.
4. Republicans and their Tea Party friends are tools of the Military industrial complex.

Democrats have their list of fat cat contributors as well. The key is to understand where these platforms come from, they are not ideological.

Howard:"We're all just tools of special interests." Only if you belong to or support a major political party

What’s the definition of Big Government? The Republicans sure do like a big military, isn’t that government? I also never noticed Bush doing anything to make government smaller, did you?

Long story short, talk is cheap, cash is king. Whoever donates to their campaigns is who these people support.

Any "Tea Party" supporter should think about this. Good old Lew Rockwell hit this nail right on the head again: http://www.lewrockwell.com/rockwell/prepare-for-betrayal155.html

Dave,
I don't think betrayal is going to happen. The major issues of the tea party involve the fiscal aspect of government. Not many expect big social changes.

And as for the military, defense is a legitmate Constitutional use of tax payer money. Telling me I can't have an incandescent light bulb is not.

Peter,

1 see my point #3 "i realize that one of the things that makes our country great is how we help our own." while I will agree that we shouldnt pay for non citizens that arent here legally for medical care etc, I think turning them away from medical care is wrong.

2) a quick scan of powers of and limits to Congress in the constitution does not say that there should be departments such as EPA and DOE, HOWEVER, they also dont say that they cant make them. The beauty of the constitution is that it is a living document, both clear and vague, unchanging and evolving. Otherwise I dont think it could have survived the change from how our country was in the 1700's to the 1800's to the 1900's to now.

3) the only government agency I know of that monitors how much water goes through my toilet and every other pipe in my house is the water dept, who watches it so they can charge me for it. How many public companies would spend the money on infrastructor etc to supply water at pennies a gallon? look at the electric bills and how much they can vary and go up. look also at the contaminated wells in the Town of Batavia, why isnt the need for those people to have clean water a govermental issue? plus its not a federal agency that watches it, sure they push for more efficient better functioning products on a fed level. However since you talked about light bulbs, I am all for the new CFL bulbs, I bought a contractors pack at Home Depot when I bought my house, changed all the bulbs in it to CFL's and even when I dont figure how much i'd spend on replacing burned out bulbs, 2 of the bulbs will more than pay for the pack over the life of them, and the rest are free money!

4 I'll agree that afganistan was more of a legitamate war premise, however Iraq I will argue. If he moved the weapons and his generals are writing books about it, WHERE ARE THEY? why didnt we pull them out and say "Told you he had them". WHile Saddam was a bad bad man and I wouldnt want to live under his rule, what gives us the right to go remove him? I dont see how a mentality that all goverment is bad and needs to be scrapped to bare bones is compatible with empire building, which really is how Iraq was interpreted. Not only that, but what gives us the right to make decisions about who should or shouldnt run a different country?

I also feel that both wars were misplanned from day 1. History shows how the Afgan people feel towards invading forces, while the taliban were evil and repressive, they were afgans, we came in and tried to run the country and while some accepted it, others dont, we should have organized a group of rebels or refuges and backed them up while they beat the taliban back.(just one possible alternative way) once the taliban was overthrown stay and support as much s they need us to, but dont force our ways on them. With Iraq, if you look at how life was after we "freed " them, think about this, under Saddam you had water, food, relative peace, but werent "free". After we took him out, you had no running water, food was scarce/tough to get, and suicide bombers on a regular basis. However if you were alive and had time you could excercise your freedom! hmmm which is better?

what item inside the US was destroyed by Islamic extremist before 9/11? we are our own biggest threat in this country. shooting our own people etc...

some people are content to live on the street.... WOW, I dont know how to respond to that.... wow... well yeah maybe you will have a few people who live on the street wilingly, those arent the ones you need to fix, its the ones that are stuck in the cycle of extreme poverty that need help... think about it this way, you are living paycheck to paycheck, loose your job, get evicted and are on the street. Now you cary all your belongings, have no where to sleep or shower on a regular basis besides a homeless shelter, how do you find a job that will allow you to get out of the cycle? what address do you put on the application? where do they call you for an interview? etc.

wow that was long.... reply?

phil I agree, nice post

1. See they can have emergency care that will save their lives but they should not be entitled to use our resources for any normal average medical care.

2. The constitution is not alive. It was written with a way to amend it if you want a change. Its was not written to be interpreted, the Supreme Court gave themselves that power.

3. Toilet Law - http://www.mackinac.org/2483

4. IF you want CFLs thats fine. I don't I like my dimmers. No one should force one on me over the other. IF I want to pay more for electricity, that my choice with my money. FREEDOM

WMDs - http://www.nysun.com/foreign/iraqs-wmd-secreted-in-syria-sada-says/2651…

What was destroyed before 9/11? How about the basement of the Towers?

The great society and the war on poverty has not done anything to end homelessness, how is another government program going to help?

You want to know how to get them out of the cycle, you need them to change their minds like this guy.
http://articles.sfgate.com/2009-06-04/news/17208451_1_larry-moore-shoes…