Burning these books will do no good and has the potential to cause more ill will than is really needed right now. This activity deserves whatever criticism it gets.
But...... it is within his rights to to this, he should be allowed. Just as the critics of this action should be allowed to voice their opinions against it.
"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it."
Voltaire, (Attributed); originated in "The Friends of Voltaire", 1906, by S. G. Tallentyre (Evelyn Beatrice Hall)
French author, humanist, rationalist, & satirist (1694 - 1778)
Just as with building a mosque in a location many consider to be sacred, he has the right to do so - but that doesn't make it the prudent and moral thing to do. I just wish the media wouldn't give him the coverage he obviously seeks. They too have a hand in stirring the pot.
"But I tell you who hear me: Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, bless those who curse you, pray for those who mistreat you. If someone strikes you on one cheek, turn to him the other also." -Luke 6:27-29
...per Jesus in the Sermon on the Plain.
If Terry Jones were a true practicing Christian he wouldn't react to violence with hate.
Besides, you can't legally set a fire in Gainesville city limits.
Burning these books qualifies as symbolic speech, which was guaranteed protection under the first amendment right to freedom of speech. It was established in 1969 when the supreme court heard the case of Tinker v. Des Moines. Do I agree with what he's doing, no, but there is no legal justification for not allowing him to do it.
I believe he has the right to burn the book, but really have to question his timing. We all know to well who will pay for his actions, the soldiers on the ground in Afganistan, and any where else in the world where muslims will be able to get off a cheap shot. Kelly, I couldn't agree with you more, but it is the media which drives these individuals, and I can't blame the media for doing their job, which is simply reporting the news.
Agree with most of the comments above. The wording of the poll should be changed. I think most of us agree he should have the "right" to do it, but the act itself he should not. I would be interested to see the results of the poll with the wording changed.
He needs a burn permit and they won't give him one. They need to have a firetruck on standby to knock him to the ground, before he is arrested. If it was fair treatment for civil rights protesters it is certain fair treatment for a rabid right wing religious zealot of the American Christian Taliban.
Whether or not he follows through with his plan is almost a mute point, as the results of his just planning to do so, has created anti-American sentiment in the muslim world.
That this fuels the fire is crap. Muslims the world over already hate America and what she stands for. Pissing them off more isn't going to make them do any more than they were already planning.
What are they going to declare war against us again? Bomb our towers with our planes again, as though we provoked that attack to begin with?
I don't think it is a smart thing to do , but he is well within his rights. I also think that the politicians need to stay out of these matters and quit looking for face time with the media. There is suppose to be separation of church and state or this only when it suits them.
Peter, I guess with some people on this site, you have got to take them by the hand, and explain every goddamned comment you post. So here is what I thought I conveyed, watching the news the other night, I saw muslims in Afghanistan standing on an American flag, I hadn't seen that sentiment in the news recently, so right of the clear blue sky, I figured it might just have something to do with the intentions of a clergyman
who was planning on burning the holy book of the muslim world.Excuse me if that wasn't obvious, I must have thought thats what everyone was posting about.
Mark, thats a great question, but I'm sure the answer will be, Hitler lived in Germany, this is the US. Also you need to remember one of our rights includes burning our nations flag. But it's all good, I'm sure this is what our forefathers had in mind when writing the constitution.
Mark, he and Hitler both have the natural right to do with their property as they want, but in Hitler's case he took property that was not his and destroyed it.
Well thats enough of this poppycock, I have others in high places to piss off today in my never ending quest for ,truth, justice, and the American way.
For clarity, when I use the term "piss off" It is my description of the result of asking them to do the job they get paid for.
Mark,
As for Hitler, there were no "rights", except what he said at any given time.
Peter,
Your right, the Muslim extremist will not hate us any less, or shoot at us less. They just killed some doctors because they claimed the doctors were spreading their Christian faith while providing medical care. They blew up statues of Buddha that were thousands of years old. Book burning is mild to them.
Frank,
I saw the same news clip of the flag burning. I also read that the crowd waited until the news people showed up.
This goof in Florida got his 15 minutes of fame. If he doesn't burn the books, he'll still be in the news for a day or two. If he does burn them, he'll be in the news for about another week or so. To me, this is just a popularity stunt, and it worked great.
Burning the Bible and the Flag are protected by the 1st Amendment. Urinating on the Bible, placing a crucifix in a jar of urine, covering a religious icon with elephant dung - considered art by the left and the ACLU. Flying two jets into WTC - misunderstood, radical Islamic terrorists. Don't burn the Koran because we might upset a few terrorists ..Give me a break..
I think I've said this before, but blaming all Muslim for 9/11 and the such is so juvenile. That's like blaming all Christians for the Oklahoma City Bombing etc.
Good Point Anthony, I am a Christian, Terry Jones does not represent me. I'm sure there are lots of Muslims who feel Osama Bin Laden and his ilk don't represent them.
The problem here is that this guy is getting his 15 minutes courtesy of the American media and, to some degree, the willingness of government officials willing to comment on the situation.
At lunch today I was listening to the radio and a gentleman was being interviewed about all of this. He was saying that he thought Hilary Clinton and President Obama made a mistake when they commented publicly about this guy in Florida. I agree wholeheartedly. The interviewee summed it up better than I can so I'll share with you what he said:
'We don't call the Secretary of the Air Force for a comment every time some crackpot insists he was abducted by aliens and we shouldn't be calling the Secretary of State about some idiot in Florida.'
I first heard of this story when there was a big protest by Muslims in Afghanistan. It seems that Muslims in Afghanistan knew about the planned burning before most/any Americans did.
That protest led Gen. Petraeaus to react, which made it national news here. Once it became national news, it was entirely appropriate for Obama and Clinton to comment.
Not everything, you know, is the media's fault. Actually, you, sometimes, things happen and the media does what it should do -- cover it.
What I'm saying is that our media should never have covered it. Rednecks in Florida having a bonfire aren't news. This pastor is an attention whore and we gave him what he wanted, bad move.
Chris, the Afghan protests made it news. Unavoidably. It would have been irresponsible not to cover it at that point. It had nothing to do with what a nut case Jones is. It had to do with the situation in Afghanistan.
Who knows? A blog? An Islamic message board? An e-mail from a relative? Text messages? Twitter? Facebook?
Twenty years ago, the local paper might have covered the protest and maybe the AP picks it up and it gets relegated to a blurb on A-8 in a handful of papers around the country and maybe a few Afghans happen to find out about it, but have little means to spread the word.
Anthony,I've said this before, look at what the faith teaches followers, if you do not believe in their philosophies, it makes you an infidel, and we know the rest. I know I'm going to catch hell for this opinion, but here goes: Any religion that follows a holy book, that teaches death to all non beleivers, IN MY OPINION,should be considered a terrorist organization,thus removing any right to practice in this country. The death to all non-believers infringes on the rights of every other religious denomination throughout this country, so how can anyone justify a religion which doesn't recognize the right to exist, if you are a non follower of the muslim faith.
I don't believe our forefathers had this in mind when writing the Bill of Rights.
Frank, I don't know what the forefathers had in mind. All I know is some of the first people to come here from Europe came because they didn't like being told what religion they could or could not practice.
I am a Christian, my belief is very strong, I am not a very good one however. My father was a Methodist Minister and a Bible scholar and a great Christian man. I'll share with you his words of wisdom.(not mine, I'm not that smart) Worrying about other people is not useful to you in your spiritual journey, be they other Christians or people of other faiths or of no faith. What matters is your relationship with Christ and God. You can't change other people. You can share the love and joy you feel. You can tell them the story. You can do God's work through charity and helpfulness to your fellow human beings. But that's about it. People are going to do what they are going to do. As an American, I am willing to let others worship and gather around any idea they want to, as long as they are peaceful and don't harm or infringe on someone else's rights.
Then shalt thou bring forth that man or that woman, which have committed that wicked thing, unto thy gates, even that man or that woman, and shalt stone them with stones, till they die
Ruh-Roh. Which one of you is going to be first to leave the country?
Dave, are you agreeing with the muslim teachings? When another religion teaches to kill non believers, As an American I find that appalling. The words in the muslim holy book don't sound peaceful, and sounds as if it wants to harm others as it directs them to do so, and that to me is one hell of an infringement on the rights of others
And the man that will do presumptuously, and will not hearken unto the priest that standeth to minister there before the LORD thy God, or unto the judge, even that man shall die: and thou shalt put away the evil from Israel.
Sorry Chris,I meant Dave in my last post.
There is only one religious following that has killed in the name of religion in the past 10 years, and continues to kill in the name of religion, in this country.
How do you get that I agree with Muslim teachings? By the way, I don't know much about Islam,don't want to, never read the Quran and have no intention of doing so. I am not concerned with them. I am concerned with the continuation of our free society, less stupid laws outlawing this or that and if I'm lucky convincing Jesus Christ to let me into heaven when I leave this life.
Just for the record. People keep saying Europeans came here for religious freedom and that's true, but only for their own branch. They did not tolerate other sects well after they arrived. The original colonies started out along different sects of Christianity. It took awhile time for tolerance to gain acceptance. It was not all love they neighbor in the 1600's.
Its a LAW in Saudi arabia to burn bibles if found. The american military burned bibles printed in pashto in afghanistan that were sent there by american churches.
Frank sd "We all know to well who will pay for his actions, the soldiers on the ground in Afganistan"
you see ive been there twice and am returning in the early spring and i say burn them its his right why are all these soldiers going to war anyway? its to preserve the liberties we have the american way of life. the islamic world declared war not on the US but on the christian world. and of course you say afghans standing ona flag and i guarentee the taliban paid them very well to do just that. the people of afghanistan are good people with a few bad apples in the bunch and if i was in a 3rd world country and someone offered me enough money tofeed my family for a month and alls i had to do was stomp on the flag of a foriegn country i would and thats all theyre doing
John, color me stupid, but what is it you're saying. Would you also strap on an explosive laden vest and attempt to kill and main as many innocent people as possible? You would do this because the Taliban promised to pay your family for this "sacrifice"?
You make a great argument for my opinion, not only does the koran teach to kill infidels, but you are suggesting they will kill for monetary gain as well. So we are dealing with fanaticism, and paid killers, under the guise of religion?
Now the news media is reporting AQ is recruiting home grown terrorists. With our weak economy, I'm quite positive recruitment won't be all that difficult, because at the present time there are Americans who also can't feed their families. And how much easier can we make it, we might as well build the training camps for them, or do they call them mosques?
Have you read the koran? it teaches no such thing some interperet it differently the same way there are radical christians. Burning the koran isnt going to create more terrorist the same way burning the flag isnt going to create more militant groups in our own country. It'll anger the radical islamics but really who cares if theyre made theyre still going to try everything they can to make us live in fear and kill as many americans as possible. please dont speak for whats best for the troops if you are ill informed burning the koran would be a massive boost to the morale of the soldiers over there because they come back from war and recieve NO acknowledgment for what theyve done which is sad
The Islamic religion calls for the death of Infidels, I don 't need a copy of the koran to possess such knowledge. The philosophies of that religion have been reported by every news media available in this country.
Could you please use capitols when typing "America"
Is the top US Commander in Afghanistan ill informed as well?
Burning these books will do
Burning these books will do no good and has the potential to cause more ill will than is really needed right now. This activity deserves whatever criticism it gets.
But...... it is within his rights to to this, he should be allowed. Just as the critics of this action should be allowed to voice their opinions against it.
"I disapprove of what you
"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it."
Voltaire, (Attributed); originated in "The Friends of Voltaire", 1906, by S. G. Tallentyre (Evelyn Beatrice Hall)
French author, humanist, rationalist, & satirist (1694 - 1778)
He shouldn't do it, but it is
He shouldn't do it, but it is his right to.
That said, I think the man is not only a fool, but a hypocrite.
Just as with building a
Just as with building a mosque in a location many consider to be sacred, he has the right to do so - but that doesn't make it the prudent and moral thing to do. I just wish the media wouldn't give him the coverage he obviously seeks. They too have a hand in stirring the pot.
"But I tell you who hear me:
"But I tell you who hear me: Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, bless those who curse you, pray for those who mistreat you. If someone strikes you on one cheek, turn to him the other also." -Luke 6:27-29
...per Jesus in the Sermon on the Plain.
If Terry Jones were a true practicing Christian he wouldn't react to violence with hate.
Besides, you can't legally set a fire in Gainesville city limits.
Burning these books qualifies
Burning these books qualifies as symbolic speech, which was guaranteed protection under the first amendment right to freedom of speech. It was established in 1969 when the supreme court heard the case of Tinker v. Des Moines. Do I agree with what he's doing, no, but there is no legal justification for not allowing him to do it.
I believe he has the right to
I believe he has the right to burn the book, but really have to question his timing. We all know to well who will pay for his actions, the soldiers on the ground in Afganistan, and any where else in the world where muslims will be able to get off a cheap shot. Kelly, I couldn't agree with you more, but it is the media which drives these individuals, and I can't blame the media for doing their job, which is simply reporting the news.
Agree with most of the
Agree with most of the comments above. The wording of the poll should be changed. I think most of us agree he should have the "right" to do it, but the act itself he should not. I would be interested to see the results of the poll with the wording changed.
He needs a burn permit and
He needs a burn permit and they won't give him one. They need to have a firetruck on standby to knock him to the ground, before he is arrested. If it was fair treatment for civil rights protesters it is certain fair treatment for a rabid right wing religious zealot of the American Christian Taliban.
Whether or not he follows
Whether or not he follows through with his plan is almost a mute point, as the results of his just planning to do so, has created anti-American sentiment in the muslim world.
That this fuels the fire is
That this fuels the fire is crap. Muslims the world over already hate America and what she stands for. Pissing them off more isn't going to make them do any more than they were already planning.
What are they going to declare war against us again? Bomb our towers with our planes again, as though we provoked that attack to begin with?
I don't think it is a smart
I don't think it is a smart thing to do , but he is well within his rights. I also think that the politicians need to stay out of these matters and quit looking for face time with the media. There is suppose to be separation of church and state or this only when it suits them.
Peter, I guess with some
Peter, I guess with some people on this site, you have got to take them by the hand, and explain every goddamned comment you post. So here is what I thought I conveyed, watching the news the other night, I saw muslims in Afghanistan standing on an American flag, I hadn't seen that sentiment in the news recently, so right of the clear blue sky, I figured it might just have something to do with the intentions of a clergyman
who was planning on burning the holy book of the muslim world.Excuse me if that wasn't obvious, I must have thought thats what everyone was posting about.
I will pose this question. If
I will pose this question. If it is his right to burn a book of religious significance, was it Hilter's right to burn books as well?
The fire department needs to
The fire department needs to be their, and give him a permit. There is no way they would give this man one.
Mark, thats a great question,
Mark, thats a great question, but I'm sure the answer will be, Hitler lived in Germany, this is the US. Also you need to remember one of our rights includes burning our nations flag. But it's all good, I'm sure this is what our forefathers had in mind when writing the constitution.
Mark, he and Hitler both have
Mark, he and Hitler both have the natural right to do with their property as they want, but in Hitler's case he took property that was not his and destroyed it.
Well thats enough of this
Well thats enough of this poppycock, I have others in high places to piss off today in my never ending quest for ,truth, justice, and the American way.
For clarity, when I use the term "piss off" It is my description of the result of asking them to do the job they get paid for.
Mark, As for Hitler, there
Mark,
As for Hitler, there were no "rights", except what he said at any given time.
Peter,
Your right, the Muslim extremist will not hate us any less, or shoot at us less. They just killed some doctors because they claimed the doctors were spreading their Christian faith while providing medical care. They blew up statues of Buddha that were thousands of years old. Book burning is mild to them.
Frank,
I saw the same news clip of the flag burning. I also read that the crowd waited until the news people showed up.
This goof in Florida got his 15 minutes of fame. If he doesn't burn the books, he'll still be in the news for a day or two. If he does burn them, he'll be in the news for about another week or so. To me, this is just a popularity stunt, and it worked great.
John, exactly, both sides
John, exactly, both sides getting photo ops.
Mark, As far as I am
Mark,
As far as I am concerned, yes it was. But to burn people, No.
Burning the Bible and the
Burning the Bible and the Flag are protected by the 1st Amendment. Urinating on the Bible, placing a crucifix in a jar of urine, covering a religious icon with elephant dung - considered art by the left and the ACLU. Flying two jets into WTC - misunderstood, radical Islamic terrorists. Don't burn the Koran because we might upset a few terrorists ..Give me a break..
Mark P, And watch out if you
Mark P,
And watch out if you depict Allah is a bad light through a Danish cartoon....
I think I've said this
I think I've said this before, but blaming all Muslim for 9/11 and the such is so juvenile. That's like blaming all Christians for the Oklahoma City Bombing etc.
Good Point Anthony, I am a
Good Point Anthony, I am a Christian, Terry Jones does not represent me. I'm sure there are lots of Muslims who feel Osama Bin Laden and his ilk don't represent them.
The problem here is that this
The problem here is that this guy is getting his 15 minutes courtesy of the American media and, to some degree, the willingness of government officials willing to comment on the situation.
At lunch today I was listening to the radio and a gentleman was being interviewed about all of this. He was saying that he thought Hilary Clinton and President Obama made a mistake when they commented publicly about this guy in Florida. I agree wholeheartedly. The interviewee summed it up better than I can so I'll share with you what he said:
'We don't call the Secretary of the Air Force for a comment every time some crackpot insists he was abducted by aliens and we shouldn't be calling the Secretary of State about some idiot in Florida.'
I liked that, I liked that a lot.
I first heard of this story
I first heard of this story when there was a big protest by Muslims in Afghanistan. It seems that Muslims in Afghanistan knew about the planned burning before most/any Americans did.
That protest led Gen. Petraeaus to react, which made it national news here. Once it became national news, it was entirely appropriate for Obama and Clinton to comment.
Not everything, you know, is the media's fault. Actually, you, sometimes, things happen and the media does what it should do -- cover it.
What I'm saying is that our
What I'm saying is that our media should never have covered it. Rednecks in Florida having a bonfire aren't news. This pastor is an attention whore and we gave him what he wanted, bad move.
Chris, the Afghan protests
Chris, the Afghan protests made it news. Unavoidably. It would have been irresponsible not to cover it at that point. It had nothing to do with what a nut case Jones is. It had to do with the situation in Afghanistan.
and how did the folks in
and how did the folks in Afghanistan find out about it?
Who knows? A blog? An Islamic
Who knows? A blog? An Islamic message board? An e-mail from a relative? Text messages? Twitter? Facebook?
Twenty years ago, the local paper might have covered the protest and maybe the AP picks it up and it gets relegated to a blurb on A-8 in a handful of papers around the country and maybe a few Afghans happen to find out about it, but have little means to spread the word.
News doesn't work that way anymore.
It was Facebook.
It was Facebook.
Anthony,I've said this
Anthony,I've said this before, look at what the faith teaches followers, if you do not believe in their philosophies, it makes you an infidel, and we know the rest. I know I'm going to catch hell for this opinion, but here goes: Any religion that follows a holy book, that teaches death to all non beleivers, IN MY OPINION,should be considered a terrorist organization,thus removing any right to practice in this country. The death to all non-believers infringes on the rights of every other religious denomination throughout this country, so how can anyone justify a religion which doesn't recognize the right to exist, if you are a non follower of the muslim faith.
I don't believe our forefathers had this in mind when writing the Bill of Rights.
You'll only get agreement
You'll only get agreement from me Frank.
Frank, I don't know what the
Frank, I don't know what the forefathers had in mind. All I know is some of the first people to come here from Europe came because they didn't like being told what religion they could or could not practice.
I am a Christian, my belief is very strong, I am not a very good one however. My father was a Methodist Minister and a Bible scholar and a great Christian man. I'll share with you his words of wisdom.(not mine, I'm not that smart) Worrying about other people is not useful to you in your spiritual journey, be they other Christians or people of other faiths or of no faith. What matters is your relationship with Christ and God. You can't change other people. You can share the love and joy you feel. You can tell them the story. You can do God's work through charity and helpfulness to your fellow human beings. But that's about it. People are going to do what they are going to do. As an American, I am willing to let others worship and gather around any idea they want to, as long as they are peaceful and don't harm or infringe on someone else's rights.
Deuteronomy 17:5 Then shalt
Deuteronomy 17:5
Then shalt thou bring forth that man or that woman, which have committed that wicked thing, unto thy gates, even that man or that woman, and shalt stone them with stones, till they die
Ruh-Roh. Which one of you is going to be first to leave the country?
Dave, are you agreeing with
Dave, are you agreeing with the muslim teachings? When another religion teaches to kill non believers, As an American I find that appalling. The words in the muslim holy book don't sound peaceful, and sounds as if it wants to harm others as it directs them to do so, and that to me is one hell of an infringement on the rights of others
But wait, there's
But wait, there's more:
Deuteronomy 17:12
And the man that will do presumptuously, and will not hearken unto the priest that standeth to minister there before the LORD thy God, or unto the judge, even that man shall die: and thou shalt put away the evil from Israel.
Deleted due to some confusion
Deleted due to some confusion with Mr. Bartholomew
Sorry Chris,I meant Dave in
Sorry Chris,I meant Dave in my last post.
There is only one religious following that has killed in the name of religion in the past 10 years, and continues to kill in the name of religion, in this country.
How do you get that I agree
How do you get that I agree with Muslim teachings? By the way, I don't know much about Islam,don't want to, never read the Quran and have no intention of doing so. I am not concerned with them. I am concerned with the continuation of our free society, less stupid laws outlawing this or that and if I'm lucky convincing Jesus Christ to let me into heaven when I leave this life.
I've read portions the Quran
I've read portions the Quran and don't particular like what I've read. But I don't hate. And I'm with Voltaire, "tend your own garden."
http://www.newsweek.com/2010/09/04/zakaria-why-america-overreacted-to-9…
FWIW: Fox has announced it
FWIW: Fox has announced it won't cover the burning, and AP has said it will not distribute pictures of video of Quran/Korans burning.
Just for the record. People
Just for the record. People keep saying Europeans came here for religious freedom and that's true, but only for their own branch. They did not tolerate other sects well after they arrived. The original colonies started out along different sects of Christianity. It took awhile time for tolerance to gain acceptance. It was not all love they neighbor in the 1600's.
Dave, note the ?,IT WAS A
Dave, note the ?,IT WAS A QUESTION,!!!!!
Its a LAW in Saudi arabia to
Its a LAW in Saudi arabia to burn bibles if found. The american military burned bibles printed in pashto in afghanistan that were sent there by american churches.
Frank sd "We all know to well who will pay for his actions, the soldiers on the ground in Afganistan"
you see ive been there twice and am returning in the early spring and i say burn them its his right why are all these soldiers going to war anyway? its to preserve the liberties we have the american way of life. the islamic world declared war not on the US but on the christian world. and of course you say afghans standing ona flag and i guarentee the taliban paid them very well to do just that. the people of afghanistan are good people with a few bad apples in the bunch and if i was in a 3rd world country and someone offered me enough money tofeed my family for a month and alls i had to do was stomp on the flag of a foriegn country i would and thats all theyre doing
John, color me stupid, but
John, color me stupid, but what is it you're saying. Would you also strap on an explosive laden vest and attempt to kill and main as many innocent people as possible? You would do this because the Taliban promised to pay your family for this "sacrifice"?
You make a great argument for my opinion, not only does the koran teach to kill infidels, but you are suggesting they will kill for monetary gain as well. So we are dealing with fanaticism, and paid killers, under the guise of religion?
Now the news media is reporting AQ is recruiting home grown terrorists. With our weak economy, I'm quite positive recruitment won't be all that difficult, because at the present time there are Americans who also can't feed their families. And how much easier can we make it, we might as well build the training camps for them, or do they call them mosques?
Have you read the koran? it
Have you read the koran? it teaches no such thing some interperet it differently the same way there are radical christians. Burning the koran isnt going to create more terrorist the same way burning the flag isnt going to create more militant groups in our own country. It'll anger the radical islamics but really who cares if theyre made theyre still going to try everything they can to make us live in fear and kill as many americans as possible. please dont speak for whats best for the troops if you are ill informed burning the koran would be a massive boost to the morale of the soldiers over there because they come back from war and recieve NO acknowledgment for what theyve done which is sad
The Islamic religion calls
The Islamic religion calls for the death of Infidels, I don 't need a copy of the koran to possess such knowledge. The philosophies of that religion have been reported by every news media available in this country.
Could you please use capitols when typing "America"
Is the top US Commander in Afghanistan ill informed as well?