Peter, I think we should just sit back and watch the chaos, but only until it comes to our shores, then we can blame the govt. for not protecting us. In my opinion, we should have taken those sites out a long time ago, Imashitinthejohn will be the one to take rash, aggressive action by sharing his toys with radicals.
Yeah Peter, I can't say that I'm with you on this one.
This country has caused a lot more of it's issue then we take credit for. Remember Osama Bin Laden was our puppet in the 80's. It wasn't until we cut him loose and stopped his funding did he turn on us.
Further, there really isn't that much that we have done right these past 7 years over there either. We haven't stopped anything, we might have changed the players or slowed the dollars flowing, but we have also helped recruit as well. We have missed the mark on our air strikes more then a "few" times.
Listen, I lost people in 9/11. I was in Europe at the start of the war, saw friends leave and come back different, or not at all. I held kids who wept after hearing that dad was gone. I'm not some moron who is going to blame America for what these people do, but for the past thirty years we have done things a certain way and I hate to break to everyone, it isn't working.
Our country is in enough trouble here. We can't even protect our own borders, take care of our own sick, homeless or our vets. We are at a point where literally more people are taking from the system then is putting in, and we have millions that do want to work still out of a job. It's a joke.
I didn't say do nothing on this poll, but I would not commit anymore of our resources or precious lives to this. It's time that America gets smarter.
Phil, Have we made mistakes in the past,yes we have, our foreign policies have been in the toilet for a long time, but the other side of the coin is, there is no appeasing the jihadist, and a nuclear capable Iran is a very real, very dangerous threat to world peace, and the entire world had better wake up to this threat. A nuclear Iran could be the start of WWIII. I know this is a pessimistic view, but I base my views on words that came from the Iranian leader. If this nutcase has nukes, the jihadists will have nukes.
I guess what I'm not getting is what's next? There has always been someone who is crazy that is looking to do something. You know what we do? We blow em up! Or we give money to someone else to blow em' up!
In the process we/allies/paid mercs. kill innocent people, pissing them off and creating a new wave. There will always be people who want America, Iseral, Europe and every other free nation gone.
I think this assinine "Kill them, so they don't kill us" line of thought is pointless. There are ways to ruin people, movements and threats that are more long lasting than death, but we can't go there. You know why? Oil.
We are dependant on the very people who funds these groups. You take away the funding, you stop all of this. Iran doesn't give a $%#@ what we think because they could in a few swift motions, cripple us. Just like China can with our money.
We have spent the past thirty years becoming a nation who is dependant on everyone else to be a "superpower". We have spent so much time worrying about the world and borrowing money to do it, that we have nailed ourselves.
It's thinking like yours Frank why the cycle will continue on. The "whip it out and wave it around", "not in my backyard" BS that creates two new problems for every one it "solves". It's why Democrats and Republicans are useless. One wants to hug, the other wants to exterminate. Great plans.
Howard, how did you reach that conclusion? If Iran is a threat to Israel, they in turn are a threat to world peace. We all know the ramifications of any attack on Israel.
Phil, say what you will, but if you don't think Iran having nukes isn't a direct threat to world peace, there is no more to say. BTW, what is your plan?
Anyone having nukes is a direct threat to World Peace. Come on.
My Plan? It will never happen, here's a little...
Stop buying all overseas oil Now. Open the reserves and ANWR and be self sufficient while continue to push Alternative. Once one is found that will/can last, switch over to that. No delays. Iran will feel an immeadiate economic burn. Now you can focus on their money supplies.
Eliminate the IRS, streamline Taxes, Stop the level of Social programs that allow people to stay on them indef. Take the additional income and invest in debt to China, Infrastructure and small biz initiatives to create real jobs.
Make a decision on your borders to Mexico once and for all and stop all the pandering. Become the North America Union and allow people to come in or shut the borders down for good and get over the tears.
Stop funding other countries. We currently are spending an obscene amount of billions of dollars to other nations' governments.
Repeal Medicaid. Take said funds and create free emergency care clinics in every hospital that people with or without insurance can go (A vast majority of where the waste goes). Long term care will then be provided by insurance. Their costs will be greatly reduced by the exodus on Medicaid.
And there is a lot more, Frank. Are my ideas the best? I don't know, but I'm trying to think through problems long term, not just what is in front of my face. The reaction way of government has done nothing good for us.
Phil, Love your plan, but you're right,never gonna happen. Getting back to Iran, I believe Ididashitinthejohn made the remark about wiping Israel off the map, that is my point, I don't recall hearing that from other leaders of nuke capable countries. If this nut has weapons grade nuclear material, so will those who despise the US and Israel. Maybe it is just rhetoric, but it would be one hell of a costly misjudgment not to take the threat seriously.If they managed 9/11, I don't think we will stop a determined enemy forever. Iran is not going to back down on this issue, and sanctions are as usual, a joke. I honestly don't think there are many choices in the bag at this point, but waiting for them to throw the first punch is foolish. I'm not talking about whipping it out or waving it around, I'm talking about dirty bombs,desperate enemies, and pure and simple hatred of this country, its people, and all it stands for. I'm not making this shit up, this is the state of our affairs in the world today.
Ignorance will get us all killed. I'm not thrilled with how our govt. has handled itself over the past 30 + years either, but that is the bed we made. It does not change the facts.
Chris, the point is well taken, dialogue with the Iranians hasn't slowed them in their quest for nuclear power. The U.S. is caught between a rock and a hard place. We can't restrain Israel forever, and sanctions, dialogue, and negotiating with Iran has yet to bear fruit. It becomes quite clear how one would find themselves in this security dilemma. I know it sounds good to say we need to mind our own business, but in my book, Iran is a player in the Axis of Evil. We can't ignore the threat posed by an Atomic Iran. Their leader denied the Holocaust, so we know he 's not playing with a full deck. I would be willing to bet that in the not so distant future, the Iranians will ask the IAEA inspectors to leave, and when that happens, all bets are off.
Posted by Frank Bartholomew on August 25, 2010 - 11:57pm
I would be willing to bet that in the not so distant future, the Iranians will ask the IAEA inspectors to leave, and when that happens, all bets are off.
And then here's what happens: An American led force goes into hndle the problem. We will have little support because, well like I've already said Iran is an Oil king. This will cause the Saudis to get very nervous, even defensive. We will get very little in the way of troops from other nations and we will get no funding.
This will not be an easy quick strike. This will grow far worse than Iraq ever did. Iran has a lot more oil than Iraq http://www.eia.doe.gov/cabs/Iran/Oil.html and is third overall. This will not be seen as a way to stop nuclear armonmant, but another Oil grab.
Also what happens Frank if we do go in? How long are we going to be there for now? Are we going to try to occupy three hostile nations now?
Something has to be done, but we need a better way than just war. It hasn't worked yet!
How long were you in the service for Frank? Just curious.
Phil,I'm not talking so much about US military action, I'm talking more of the Israelis. Never got the chance to serve in the military, couldn't pass the physical due to the type of injuries sustained from an auto accident.
I'm also talking about air strikes on the nuclear facilities, not an invasion force. Like I said earlier, how long will the US be able to keep Israel in check? It is my impression, that is what this whole nuclear Iran is about, A nuclear Iran will have the Israelis more nervous than a dog pooping razor blades. I understand what you're saying, but when all else fails, what choices will there be left on the table, trust them, now theres a solid plan Phil.
So what I'm seeing and hearing is this; leave them alone,let them have their nukes, and if we don't bother them, they won't bother us. Hmmm, Yeah, that might work, but I think you got a better shot at winning the lottery.
I think all nations have to get involved, and pressure the Iranians into giving up their nuclear ambitions. But that won't happen, dialogue has netted zero results, so we are left with hoping the problem goes away all by itself? Or, maybe some of you beleive the Iranians want nukes for peaceful purpose only, thats almost funny. I hope I am wrong, for the sake of the world as we know it, but again, I just can't picture Israel standing pat while an aggressive neighbor decides to produce weapons grade uranium. Correct me where I'm wrong.
As for the oil wealth, that is our own fault, Henry Kissinger convinced the Shah to raise the price of Iranian oil, despite warnings from OPEC, so Iran could afford to buy all the weapons the good ole USA had to offer.
Do you people who voted
Do you people who voted nothing have any idea what "My Mood I'm in a Jihad" thinks his role is in this world?
He is supposed to start the return of the 12th Imam. To do that he must incite chaos. What better way then to start a nuclear war?
Or just incite Israel into
Or just incite Israel into bombing his country, or get the West to take some other rash, aggressive action.
If he thought that would be a
If he thought that would be a way to start it he would have attacked us directly in Iraq.
Peter, I think we should just
Peter, I think we should just sit back and watch the chaos, but only until it comes to our shores, then we can blame the govt. for not protecting us. In my opinion, we should have taken those sites out a long time ago, Imashitinthejohn will be the one to take rash, aggressive action by sharing his toys with radicals.
Yeah Peter, I can't say that
Yeah Peter, I can't say that I'm with you on this one.
This country has caused a lot more of it's issue then we take credit for. Remember Osama Bin Laden was our puppet in the 80's. It wasn't until we cut him loose and stopped his funding did he turn on us.
Further, there really isn't that much that we have done right these past 7 years over there either. We haven't stopped anything, we might have changed the players or slowed the dollars flowing, but we have also helped recruit as well. We have missed the mark on our air strikes more then a "few" times.
Listen, I lost people in 9/11. I was in Europe at the start of the war, saw friends leave and come back different, or not at all. I held kids who wept after hearing that dad was gone. I'm not some moron who is going to blame America for what these people do, but for the past thirty years we have done things a certain way and I hate to break to everyone, it isn't working.
Our country is in enough trouble here. We can't even protect our own borders, take care of our own sick, homeless or our vets. We are at a point where literally more people are taking from the system then is putting in, and we have millions that do want to work still out of a job. It's a joke.
I didn't say do nothing on this poll, but I would not commit anymore of our resources or precious lives to this. It's time that America gets smarter.
So what do you want
So what do you want Frank?
Blow em all up?
I voted to bomb them, but at
I voted to bomb them, but at least the sanctions is a better choice then nothing.
For more details on the 12th
For more details on the 12th Imam read <a href="http://www.thebatavian.com/blogs/nebula/iranian-elections/6998">this</a…;
No Phil, I would rather wait
No Phil, I would rather wait for them to blow us up.
Phil, Have we made mistakes
Phil, Have we made mistakes in the past,yes we have, our foreign policies have been in the toilet for a long time, but the other side of the coin is, there is no appeasing the jihadist, and a nuclear capable Iran is a very real, very dangerous threat to world peace, and the entire world had better wake up to this threat. A nuclear Iran could be the start of WWIII. I know this is a pessimistic view, but I base my views on words that came from the Iranian leader. If this nutcase has nukes, the jihadists will have nukes.
Iran is not an existential
Iran is not an existential threat to the United States. Israel, perhaps, but not the United States.
Frank, I guess what I'm not
Frank,
I guess what I'm not getting is what's next? There has always been someone who is crazy that is looking to do something. You know what we do? We blow em up! Or we give money to someone else to blow em' up!
In the process we/allies/paid mercs. kill innocent people, pissing them off and creating a new wave. There will always be people who want America, Iseral, Europe and every other free nation gone.
I think this assinine "Kill them, so they don't kill us" line of thought is pointless. There are ways to ruin people, movements and threats that are more long lasting than death, but we can't go there. You know why? Oil.
We are dependant on the very people who funds these groups. You take away the funding, you stop all of this. Iran doesn't give a $%#@ what we think because they could in a few swift motions, cripple us. Just like China can with our money.
We have spent the past thirty years becoming a nation who is dependant on everyone else to be a "superpower". We have spent so much time worrying about the world and borrowing money to do it, that we have nailed ourselves.
It's thinking like yours Frank why the cycle will continue on. The "whip it out and wave it around", "not in my backyard" BS that creates two new problems for every one it "solves". It's why Democrats and Republicans are useless. One wants to hug, the other wants to exterminate. Great plans.
Howard, how did you reach
Howard, how did you reach that conclusion? If Iran is a threat to Israel, they in turn are a threat to world peace. We all know the ramifications of any attack on Israel.
Phil, say what you will, but
Phil, say what you will, but if you don't think Iran having nukes isn't a direct threat to world peace, there is no more to say. BTW, what is your plan?
Anyone having nukes is a
Anyone having nukes is a direct threat to World Peace. Come on.
My Plan? It will never happen, here's a little...
Stop buying all overseas oil Now. Open the reserves and ANWR and be self sufficient while continue to push Alternative. Once one is found that will/can last, switch over to that. No delays. Iran will feel an immeadiate economic burn. Now you can focus on their money supplies.
Eliminate the IRS, streamline Taxes, Stop the level of Social programs that allow people to stay on them indef. Take the additional income and invest in debt to China, Infrastructure and small biz initiatives to create real jobs.
Make a decision on your borders to Mexico once and for all and stop all the pandering. Become the North America Union and allow people to come in or shut the borders down for good and get over the tears.
Stop funding other countries. We currently are spending an obscene amount of billions of dollars to other nations' governments.
Repeal Medicaid. Take said funds and create free emergency care clinics in every hospital that people with or without insurance can go (A vast majority of where the waste goes). Long term care will then be provided by insurance. Their costs will be greatly reduced by the exodus on Medicaid.
And there is a lot more, Frank. Are my ideas the best? I don't know, but I'm trying to think through problems long term, not just what is in front of my face. The reaction way of government has done nothing good for us.
Phil, Love your plan, but
Phil, Love your plan, but you're right,never gonna happen. Getting back to Iran, I believe Ididashitinthejohn made the remark about wiping Israel off the map, that is my point, I don't recall hearing that from other leaders of nuke capable countries. If this nut has weapons grade nuclear material, so will those who despise the US and Israel. Maybe it is just rhetoric, but it would be one hell of a costly misjudgment not to take the threat seriously.If they managed 9/11, I don't think we will stop a determined enemy forever. Iran is not going to back down on this issue, and sanctions are as usual, a joke. I honestly don't think there are many choices in the bag at this point, but waiting for them to throw the first punch is foolish. I'm not talking about whipping it out or waving it around, I'm talking about dirty bombs,desperate enemies, and pure and simple hatred of this country, its people, and all it stands for. I'm not making this shit up, this is the state of our affairs in the world today.
Ignorance will get us all killed. I'm not thrilled with how our govt. has handled itself over the past 30 + years either, but that is the bed we made. It does not change the facts.
A threat to world peace is
A threat to world peace is not the same as a threat to the United States. It only becomes a threat to the U.S. if we get involved.
Phil, You running for
Phil,
You running for President? You got my vote.
LOL...Thanks Thomas.
LOL...Thanks Thomas.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Security_dilemma
Chris, the point is well
Chris, the point is well taken, dialogue with the Iranians hasn't slowed them in their quest for nuclear power. The U.S. is caught between a rock and a hard place. We can't restrain Israel forever, and sanctions, dialogue, and negotiating with Iran has yet to bear fruit. It becomes quite clear how one would find themselves in this security dilemma. I know it sounds good to say we need to mind our own business, but in my book, Iran is a player in the Axis of Evil. We can't ignore the threat posed by an Atomic Iran. Their leader denied the Holocaust, so we know he 's not playing with a full deck. I would be willing to bet that in the not so distant future, the Iranians will ask the IAEA inspectors to leave, and when that happens, all bets are off.
Posted by Frank Bartholomew
Posted by Frank Bartholomew on August 25, 2010 - 11:57pm
I would be willing to bet that in the not so distant future, the Iranians will ask the IAEA inspectors to leave, and when that happens, all bets are off.
And then here's what happens: An American led force goes into hndle the problem. We will have little support because, well like I've already said Iran is an Oil king. This will cause the Saudis to get very nervous, even defensive. We will get very little in the way of troops from other nations and we will get no funding.
This will not be an easy quick strike. This will grow far worse than Iraq ever did. Iran has a lot more oil than Iraq http://www.eia.doe.gov/cabs/Iran/Oil.html and is third overall. This will not be seen as a way to stop nuclear armonmant, but another Oil grab.
Also what happens Frank if we do go in? How long are we going to be there for now? Are we going to try to occupy three hostile nations now?
Something has to be done, but we need a better way than just war. It hasn't worked yet!
How long were you in the service for Frank? Just curious.
Phil,I'm not talking so much
Phil,I'm not talking so much about US military action, I'm talking more of the Israelis. Never got the chance to serve in the military, couldn't pass the physical due to the type of injuries sustained from an auto accident.
I'm also talking about air strikes on the nuclear facilities, not an invasion force. Like I said earlier, how long will the US be able to keep Israel in check? It is my impression, that is what this whole nuclear Iran is about, A nuclear Iran will have the Israelis more nervous than a dog pooping razor blades. I understand what you're saying, but when all else fails, what choices will there be left on the table, trust them, now theres a solid plan Phil.
So what I'm seeing and
So what I'm seeing and hearing is this; leave them alone,let them have their nukes, and if we don't bother them, they won't bother us. Hmmm, Yeah, that might work, but I think you got a better shot at winning the lottery.
I think all nations have to get involved, and pressure the Iranians into giving up their nuclear ambitions. But that won't happen, dialogue has netted zero results, so we are left with hoping the problem goes away all by itself? Or, maybe some of you beleive the Iranians want nukes for peaceful purpose only, thats almost funny. I hope I am wrong, for the sake of the world as we know it, but again, I just can't picture Israel standing pat while an aggressive neighbor decides to produce weapons grade uranium. Correct me where I'm wrong.
As for the oil wealth, that is our own fault, Henry Kissinger convinced the Shah to raise the price of Iranian oil, despite warnings from OPEC, so Iran could afford to buy all the weapons the good ole USA had to offer.