This is nothing more than a feel good exercise and a distraction. No one is really willing to tackle government elimination so; they distract us with talk of worthless board downsizing. Who cares how many volunteers you have on a town board? If you want to really accomplish something you should eliminate the whole board along with all the other town boards in the county.
We have discussed this at length. I don’t need more connection with government. I don’t need government to hold my hand and wipe my nose. I need the roads fixed/plowed, one police force and one fire department, that's all. Government is a plague that needs to be eliminated.
The more boards you have the more money they spend.
And you're going to get better response, a more responsive government for roads fixed and streets plowed with town and village boards. You just made my argument for me, Charlie. Thanks.
Also, I don't believe it's true that "the more boards you have the more money you spend" is true.
Just look at our biggest and most bloated governments -- Albany and Washington.
The bigger government gets, the less responsive to the people, the more money it spends and the hard it is to eliminate wasteful spending.
You want to pay higher taxes: Push for bigger and bigger government. You want more government intrusion in your life: Push for bigger and bigger government.
I'm tired of government bodies that are unresponsive and self-serving. The bigger you make any government, the more unresponsive, burdensome and wasteful it becomes.
We have a great county government -- why muck it up now by making it bigger?
There are only a little over 50,000 people in this county, that’s a big town in most parts. How many layers of government do 50,000 people need?
How police departments do we need to protect us?
How many fire departments full of equipment?
How many highway departments do we need to fill a pot hole?
How many trucks?
How many town halls?
How many feel good laws do 50,000 people need to feel like our government loves us?
Are you saying we don’t have good connections with our County Legislators or County Manager? I don’t feel separation anxiety, do you?
You’re confusing the issue when you bring Washington and Albany into this. Our national government has a different purpose and they shouldn’t impose themselves on a local level but, that’s an argument for another day.
Local government provides day to day services, commodity items that could be privatized for the most part.
I don't think I'm confusing the issue at all. Albany is a perfect example of how with each step that you conscientiously make government bigger, it takes another step upon itself, and just gets bigger and bigger.
And to answer your questions above, at least as many as we have now.
I'll take that over further removing people from decisions, destroying the character of local communities (which would likely happen if you eliminated the volunteer fire departments, which are the social hub for many of the communities that surround Batavia).
Eliminating these agencies and boards is more than a dollar and sense issue (and I argue that you wouldn't save money, but would drive up costs) it also strikes at the heart of community cohesion. Without a strong sense of community -- and there's sociology studies that support this -- you have more crime, higher teen pregnancy, lower graduating rates, higher infant mortality rates.
So this issue isn't just about "layers of government" as you put it -- it's about a number of layers of community and civic concern that go straight to the health and viability of communities.
Consolidating everything sounds to me like nothing more than change for change sake with no proven or reliable path to actually making things better. The risk far outweighs an possible or potential reward.
I think it’s safe to say you know I’m not against volunteer fire departments.
I don’t hold the nostalgia for small town government that you do. I don’t see much good coming from small little forms of government that pick away at us one fee at a time. What I do see is the cost savings in doing things in bulk.
I also trust that a small county government for 50,000 people is close enough to its public to control waste and be responsive to its needs.
It's nostalgia, Charlie, and with respect, I get tired of people characterizing it as that. It's practicality. Calling it nostalgia is a way to easily dismiss the position without closely examining it.
Howard, I closely examined local government for the last four years of my life. I felt no sense of community cohesion emanating from City Hall. What I did see was that there were services to be performed and a dollar cost associated with doing each one of them. City Hall is all about allocating dollars and cents, the work done there has nothing to do with teen pregnancy, graduating rates or infant mortality. There is nothing inherently good or bad coming from a town hall. It’s a building where money is collected and spent where a majority of people believe it should be.
I think you both make good points on this. Why can't there be some kind of hybrid of the two? Local representation, but consolidated services.
That way we save money and people feel that they have a voice?
I agree with Charlie mostly when he says:
How police departments do we need to protect us?
How many fire departments full of equipment?
How many highway departments do we need to fill a pot hole?
How many trucks?
How many town halls?
How many feel good laws do 50,000 people need to feel like our government loves us?
Not everything in that, but I don't understand why there isn't only one DPW, or just a Sheriff's department, etc. I think that duplicating services is just wastful, but I don't have a problem with Bethany, Stafford, Oakfield, Corfu and so on, all having their boards.
If those communities want to pay to have a clerk and office, fine with me. I am ready to pay a lot less for the privelige of living in NY state though. I want less governemt.
That being said, going from 9 to 7 doesn't do much at all does it. It would make the at large race more interesting, because you would be essentially voting for a President of Council, but other than that not too much different.
Posted by Howard Owens on April 28, 2010 - 11:15am
Without a strong sense of community -- and there's sociology studies that support this -- you have more crime, higher teen pregnancy, lower graduating rates, higher infant mortality rates.
Howard,
Are you saying that without a town board the village of Corfu, or Stafford would suffer more crime, higher teen pregnancy, lower graduating rates and higher infant mortality rates?
How does the town board effect the infant mortality rate?
I'm just curious.
Bea, everything has consequences. The process of electing representatives brings a community together; the ability to gather and discuss issues, even when infrequent or less than engaging in this current era, brings a community together; the guy who runs for mayor has extra motivation to, maybe, participate in Rotary ... etc. ... eliminating local government will have reverberations in a local community far beyond just the dollars and cents of the issue. Community isn't about government, it isn't about this or that church or news business or civic group or school classroom -- it's all of that and more. But things like a town board or school board or volunteer fire department are central to the role of community life, and when you eliminate one of those, you run the risk of breaking further (to whatever degree we have left) community cohesion, and make it harder for the next generation to put it back together (if that becomes the new desire).
People tend to think about these things in very narrow time-period and financial constraints, but just like the Legislature passing Leandra's Law, there's very little thought about the unintended consequences, or if the unintended consequences are thought of at all, they're passed off with a shrug.
I happen to think unintended consequences are very important to think about and make sure you understand before making sweeping changes in any facet of public life.
To merely look at consolidation as a dollars and cents issue is to take a very short-term view and make a god of so-call progress and expediency.
Not everything that is called progress is, and not everything that is expedient is wise.
So what I'm getting at, Bea, is there is no direct correlation between having a town board and teen pregnancy, but there is an indirect correlation between having all the elements that make a strong community and provable negative consequences of not having that community.
Howard, I don’t see how electing town board members brings a community together. In fact it can have the opposite effect don’t you think? There is nothing worse than small town politics.
I think what we have proven over the years is that the unintended consequences of all these small taxing bodies has put a high burden on us. Now local government cuts essentials to free up resources for social experiments. It has become almost impossible for local government to do common sense things because of all the laws that have been passed by the idol hands that sit on countless boards.
Charlie,
How can you talk about reducing the size and cost of government when under your watch taxes were raised by about 20%? Didn't you vote for a pay increase for fire fighters when the rest of use were seeing reductions in our pay or getting laid off all together. I commend the privatizing of the ambulance service but you are standing on some pretty wobbly stilts here.
I believe in the federal system of multiple layers of government. The last thing I want is a merger with the resulting loss of voting power.
If I had the power the City of Batavia would cut most services. No police, No garbage, No sidewalk plowing, Work to establish a county wide fire department with a 50/50 volunteer/non-union force with salaried employees and no overtime, Set all traffic lights in the city to go to blinking yellow/red at 10:00pm Sunday-Thursday and at 11:00pm on Friday and Saturday to go back to being triggered at 6:30, No mandates on lawn appearance, increase the property tax reduction for veterans to 50%, work with the board of education to remove the cell phone tax, sell the ice rink, and work to fill the mall with outlet stores like Waterloo.
George, do you really believe that a larger, less responsive government would improve things?
You don't like the roundabout. I do. A lot. But a lot of people don't. If not for the dictatorship in Albany, the city might have been able to block the roundabout if it wanted. It's a state project, not a city project.
Further, the more services you strip from the city, such as police and fire, you're effectively doing away with city government. There's very little local boards and councils control anymore as the ever-more-power-hungry Albany and Washington strip the people and their local governments of the ability to control our own communities and fates.
The answer is not in removing services, but in devolving services and power away from larger government bodies back to the local level where it belongs.
George, human life is imperfect. There will always be problems.
I'd be happier, though, if they were our problems to work on ourselves and not imposed by Albany or Washington.
Smaller governments are not utopia. They're just better, or at least give us more control to try and make things better. Unfortunately, the true power of local government is being strangled by Albany and Washington.
Peter, your bright eyed and bushy tailed today. The city doesn’t have the post of Dictator open so; you’re not actually in “power”. Here some advice for you when you are forced to work with the other members of Council to actually get something done.
No Police, good luck with that one. That’s funny. Buy a bullet proof vest, you’ll need it.
Not giving raises- tried that, sounds great till you lose your first arbitration award and the unions are awarded double what they asked for in the first place.
No garbage pickup- been there tried that. Let’s see you take on all the people who care about the ARC, they are scarier than the Police. Get ready to have your lawn be the new city dump for everyone you pissed off.
Volunteer Fire Department- been there, tried that. Still have sand in my mouth and a ringing in my right ear from that one.
No side walk plowing- been there, tried that. You better put in a second phone line at City Hall and hire an extra operator to take the complaint calls.
Synchronize the lights on Main Street- tried that, you will find that Main St. is a State road. You’ll have better luck getting rid of the Police.
Cut taxes for veterans- What then be forced to raise taxes on everyone else?
Work with the board of education to remove the cell phone tax? Nothing to do with City Hall, you are better off trying to solve global warming or just run for school board.
Sell the ice rink- been there, tried that. See above reference to the bullet proof vest.
Fill the mall with Outlet Stores like Waterloo- First find some magic beans. Your going to need them.
Posted by Charlie Mallow on April 28, 2010 - 3:37pm
Peter, your bright eyed and bushy tailed today. The city doesn’t have the post of Dictator open so; you’re not actually in “power”.
Hey WOW I agree with Peter get rid of city employees and the city public employee unions. Who said a small village needs all those public employees and services. Charlie you said it their milking tax payers dry.
City government is not the problem in New York. Albany is the problem. Overspending on schools is a problem. Making villains of city, town, village and county governments is misdirected and misguided.
Charlie; that was quite an eye-opener, I'll confess to being a bit naive. This is a big part of the problem, people are willing to resort to threats of physical violence and vandalism just to protect their little fiefdoms. No wonder things are the way they are, can't see the forest for the trees. Thanks for sharing
Dave, if I lost you, I'm sorry. My tongue was planted firmly in my cheek for all of that except the rink. Hockey moms are tough and they will punch your lights out. :-)
There might not be violence or threats but, there is enormous public pressure against cutting service levels. I'm pretty sure the vast majority of people in our city expect the levels of service they currently receive.
Charlie, I have to confess to being a bit naive too.
You said: Here some advice for you when you are forced to work with the other members of Council to actually get something done.
Can't the same be said about cooperation in all levels of government?
I guess that I've always felt that it's a good thing if the same people that live, work, play and raise a family in Batavia are the same ones making decisions for Batavia.
I think that the further government gets "from the people", the less it is "by the people".
Excellent post Charlie. With regards to the items you mention, people are reluctant to change. Probably due to the fear of the unknown. I certainly would have liked to see some of those items go through even if it cost a few minutes in the penalty box.
I also agree that town governments in county of 50,000 are unnecessary. Utilizing economies of scale by consolidating services would be less wasteful. Also, a sense of community comes from the people, not from the government. I don't feel any closer to my fellow neighbor because I have a city government. You want community involvement, then the community itself needs to be involved. I certainly don't want an elected official doing things for good will just to get elected. Communities happen because people want them, not because government are there to facilitate them. Communities existed far before government did, and I am of the opinion that politics tears us further apart, not closer together.
Charlie; naive, not so bright, something like that. I'm glad it's just exaggeration. Anecdotally, a good friend of mine was on a town council in Ohio and they were going through a debate over finances. He was on the side of raising property taxes and was vocal about it and wrote letters to the paper and so forth. He received threatening phone calls, hate mail, his mailbox repeatedly destroyed, people pulling in his driveway late at night and blowing the horn. Scared his wife pretty bad. People are crazy sometimes.
Thats the difference Charlie, I wouldn't compromise my positions. I won't "work with" other council members. MY way or the highway.
There is a street light on Rt 259 N. Union st. in the village of Spencerport where is crosses Big Ridge Rd. That light is on a timer. Thats a state street....
Albany is going to remain screwed up until NYC is no longer part of NY.
Posted by Peter O'Brien on April 29, 2010 - 12:45pm
Thats the difference Charlie, I wouldn't compromise my positions. I won't "work with" other council members. MY way or the highway.
And you'll never get anything done. You would always be a marginal player, the lone dissenting vote on every issue, and because you never compromise and support other elected officials platforms, they'll never support yours.
Compromise is part of life and part of sound governmental administration.
Peter said “Thats the difference Charlie, I wouldn't compromise my positions. I won't "work with" other council members. MY way or the highway.”
I learned two things with my time on Council, patience and the ability to compromise. You are powerless in an elected body unless you can find a way to compromise. The other is patience, it took me a while to figure out that everyone else on the board wanted the very best for the city as well. They just had different experiences than I did and that made them look at things from a different angle. It might be frustrating to take in other people’s viewpoints but, it is very important to the process. That diversity is part of the reason our country is so strong. We don’t have a “strong man” in control. A single person who calls the shots is more likely to make mistakes.
That’s how politics work; the good ones can find common ground and bite their tongue for the good of the people they represent. Every mistake I made during that time could be directly traced back to a failure to value the opinions of everyone in the room.
This is nothing more than a
This is nothing more than a feel good exercise and a distraction. No one is really willing to tackle government elimination so; they distract us with talk of worthless board downsizing. Who cares how many volunteers you have on a town board? If you want to really accomplish something you should eliminate the whole board along with all the other town boards in the county.
One county government should and can do it all.
and further remove the
and further remove the government from the people.
We don't need more government bloat and bureaucracy, Charlie, which is all you get when you eliminate smaller bodies of government.
Every community deserves to have its own say.
We have discussed this at
We have discussed this at length. I don’t need more connection with government. I don’t need government to hold my hand and wipe my nose. I need the roads fixed/plowed, one police force and one fire department, that's all. Government is a plague that needs to be eliminated.
The more boards you have the more money they spend.
And you're going to get
And you're going to get better response, a more responsive government for roads fixed and streets plowed with town and village boards. You just made my argument for me, Charlie. Thanks.
You're also going to get
You're also going to get better policing and better fire departments on a small scale.
Also, I don't believe it's
Also, I don't believe it's true that "the more boards you have the more money you spend" is true.
Just look at our biggest and most bloated governments -- Albany and Washington.
The bigger government gets, the less responsive to the people, the more money it spends and the hard it is to eliminate wasteful spending.
You want to pay higher taxes: Push for bigger and bigger government. You want more government intrusion in your life: Push for bigger and bigger government.
I'm tired of government bodies that are unresponsive and self-serving. The bigger you make any government, the more unresponsive, burdensome and wasteful it becomes.
We have a great county government -- why muck it up now by making it bigger?
There are only a little over
There are only a little over 50,000 people in this county, that’s a big town in most parts. How many layers of government do 50,000 people need?
How police departments do we need to protect us?
How many fire departments full of equipment?
How many highway departments do we need to fill a pot hole?
How many trucks?
How many town halls?
How many feel good laws do 50,000 people need to feel like our government loves us?
Are you saying we don’t have good connections with our County Legislators or County Manager? I don’t feel separation anxiety, do you?
You’re confusing the issue
You’re confusing the issue when you bring Washington and Albany into this. Our national government has a different purpose and they shouldn’t impose themselves on a local level but, that’s an argument for another day.
Local government provides day to day services, commodity items that could be privatized for the most part.
I don't think I'm confusing
I don't think I'm confusing the issue at all. Albany is a perfect example of how with each step that you conscientiously make government bigger, it takes another step upon itself, and just gets bigger and bigger.
And to answer your questions above, at least as many as we have now.
I'll take that over further removing people from decisions, destroying the character of local communities (which would likely happen if you eliminated the volunteer fire departments, which are the social hub for many of the communities that surround Batavia).
Eliminating these agencies and boards is more than a dollar and sense issue (and I argue that you wouldn't save money, but would drive up costs) it also strikes at the heart of community cohesion. Without a strong sense of community -- and there's sociology studies that support this -- you have more crime, higher teen pregnancy, lower graduating rates, higher infant mortality rates.
So this issue isn't just about "layers of government" as you put it -- it's about a number of layers of community and civic concern that go straight to the health and viability of communities.
Consolidating everything sounds to me like nothing more than change for change sake with no proven or reliable path to actually making things better. The risk far outweighs an possible or potential reward.
I think it’s safe to say you
I think it’s safe to say you know I’m not against volunteer fire departments.
I don’t hold the nostalgia for small town government that you do. I don’t see much good coming from small little forms of government that pick away at us one fee at a time. What I do see is the cost savings in doing things in bulk.
I also trust that a small county government for 50,000 people is close enough to its public to control waste and be responsive to its needs.
It's nostalgia, Charlie, and
It's nostalgia, Charlie, and with respect, I get tired of people characterizing it as that. It's practicality. Calling it nostalgia is a way to easily dismiss the position without closely examining it.
Howard, I closely examined
Howard, I closely examined local government for the last four years of my life. I felt no sense of community cohesion emanating from City Hall. What I did see was that there were services to be performed and a dollar cost associated with doing each one of them. City Hall is all about allocating dollars and cents, the work done there has nothing to do with teen pregnancy, graduating rates or infant mortality. There is nothing inherently good or bad coming from a town hall. It’s a building where money is collected and spent where a majority of people believe it should be.
I think you both make good
I think you both make good points on this. Why can't there be some kind of hybrid of the two? Local representation, but consolidated services.
That way we save money and people feel that they have a voice?
I agree with Charlie mostly when he says:
How police departments do we need to protect us?
How many fire departments full of equipment?
How many highway departments do we need to fill a pot hole?
How many trucks?
How many town halls?
How many feel good laws do 50,000 people need to feel like our government loves us?
Not everything in that, but I don't understand why there isn't only one DPW, or just a Sheriff's department, etc. I think that duplicating services is just wastful, but I don't have a problem with Bethany, Stafford, Oakfield, Corfu and so on, all having their boards.
If those communities want to pay to have a clerk and office, fine with me. I am ready to pay a lot less for the privelige of living in NY state though. I want less governemt.
That being said, going from 9 to 7 doesn't do much at all does it. It would make the at large race more interesting, because you would be essentially voting for a President of Council, but other than that not too much different.
Posted by Howard Owens on
Posted by Howard Owens on April 28, 2010 - 11:15am
Without a strong sense of community -- and there's sociology studies that support this -- you have more crime, higher teen pregnancy, lower graduating rates, higher infant mortality rates.
Howard,
Are you saying that without a town board the village of Corfu, or Stafford would suffer more crime, higher teen pregnancy, lower graduating rates and higher infant mortality rates?
How does the town board effect the infant mortality rate?
I'm just curious.
Bea, everything has
Bea, everything has consequences. The process of electing representatives brings a community together; the ability to gather and discuss issues, even when infrequent or less than engaging in this current era, brings a community together; the guy who runs for mayor has extra motivation to, maybe, participate in Rotary ... etc. ... eliminating local government will have reverberations in a local community far beyond just the dollars and cents of the issue. Community isn't about government, it isn't about this or that church or news business or civic group or school classroom -- it's all of that and more. But things like a town board or school board or volunteer fire department are central to the role of community life, and when you eliminate one of those, you run the risk of breaking further (to whatever degree we have left) community cohesion, and make it harder for the next generation to put it back together (if that becomes the new desire).
People tend to think about these things in very narrow time-period and financial constraints, but just like the Legislature passing Leandra's Law, there's very little thought about the unintended consequences, or if the unintended consequences are thought of at all, they're passed off with a shrug.
I happen to think unintended consequences are very important to think about and make sure you understand before making sweeping changes in any facet of public life.
To merely look at consolidation as a dollars and cents issue is to take a very short-term view and make a god of so-call progress and expediency.
Not everything that is called progress is, and not everything that is expedient is wise.
So what I'm getting at, Bea, is there is no direct correlation between having a town board and teen pregnancy, but there is an indirect correlation between having all the elements that make a strong community and provable negative consequences of not having that community.
Howard, I don’t see how
Howard, I don’t see how electing town board members brings a community together. In fact it can have the opposite effect don’t you think? There is nothing worse than small town politics.
I think what we have proven over the years is that the unintended consequences of all these small taxing bodies has put a high burden on us. Now local government cuts essentials to free up resources for social experiments. It has become almost impossible for local government to do common sense things because of all the laws that have been passed by the idol hands that sit on countless boards.
Charlie, How can you talk
Charlie,
How can you talk about reducing the size and cost of government when under your watch taxes were raised by about 20%? Didn't you vote for a pay increase for fire fighters when the rest of use were seeing reductions in our pay or getting laid off all together. I commend the privatizing of the ambulance service but you are standing on some pretty wobbly stilts here.
I believe in the federal system of multiple layers of government. The last thing I want is a merger with the resulting loss of voting power.
If I had the power the City of Batavia would cut most services. No police, No garbage, No sidewalk plowing, Work to establish a county wide fire department with a 50/50 volunteer/non-union force with salaried employees and no overtime, Set all traffic lights in the city to go to blinking yellow/red at 10:00pm Sunday-Thursday and at 11:00pm on Friday and Saturday to go back to being triggered at 6:30, No mandates on lawn appearance, increase the property tax reduction for veterans to 50%, work with the board of education to remove the cell phone tax, sell the ice rink, and work to fill the mall with outlet stores like Waterloo.
George, do you really believe
George, do you really believe that a larger, less responsive government would improve things?
You don't like the roundabout. I do. A lot. But a lot of people don't. If not for the dictatorship in Albany, the city might have been able to block the roundabout if it wanted. It's a state project, not a city project.
Further, the more services you strip from the city, such as police and fire, you're effectively doing away with city government. There's very little local boards and councils control anymore as the ever-more-power-hungry Albany and Washington strip the people and their local governments of the ability to control our own communities and fates.
The answer is not in removing services, but in devolving services and power away from larger government bodies back to the local level where it belongs.
George, human life is
George, human life is imperfect. There will always be problems.
I'd be happier, though, if they were our problems to work on ourselves and not imposed by Albany or Washington.
Smaller governments are not utopia. They're just better, or at least give us more control to try and make things better. Unfortunately, the true power of local government is being strangled by Albany and Washington.
Peter, your bright eyed and
Peter, your bright eyed and bushy tailed today. The city doesn’t have the post of Dictator open so; you’re not actually in “power”. Here some advice for you when you are forced to work with the other members of Council to actually get something done.
No Police, good luck with that one. That’s funny. Buy a bullet proof vest, you’ll need it.
Not giving raises- tried that, sounds great till you lose your first arbitration award and the unions are awarded double what they asked for in the first place.
No garbage pickup- been there tried that. Let’s see you take on all the people who care about the ARC, they are scarier than the Police. Get ready to have your lawn be the new city dump for everyone you pissed off.
Volunteer Fire Department- been there, tried that. Still have sand in my mouth and a ringing in my right ear from that one.
No side walk plowing- been there, tried that. You better put in a second phone line at City Hall and hire an extra operator to take the complaint calls.
Synchronize the lights on Main Street- tried that, you will find that Main St. is a State road. You’ll have better luck getting rid of the Police.
Cut taxes for veterans- What then be forced to raise taxes on everyone else?
Work with the board of education to remove the cell phone tax? Nothing to do with City Hall, you are better off trying to solve global warming or just run for school board.
Sell the ice rink- been there, tried that. See above reference to the bullet proof vest.
Fill the mall with Outlet Stores like Waterloo- First find some magic beans. Your going to need them.
Charlie, Now you know nobody
Charlie,
Now you know nobody takes Peter seriously.
Posted by Charlie Mallow on
Posted by Charlie Mallow on April 28, 2010 - 3:37pm
Peter, your bright eyed and bushy tailed today. The city doesn’t have the post of Dictator open so; you’re not actually in “power”.
Great post.
Hey WOW I agree with Peter
Hey WOW I agree with Peter get rid of city employees and the city public employee unions. Who said a small village needs all those public employees and services. Charlie you said it their milking tax payers dry.
City government is not the
City government is not the problem in New York. Albany is the problem. Overspending on schools is a problem. Making villains of city, town, village and county governments is misdirected and misguided.
Charlie; that was quite an
Charlie; that was quite an eye-opener, I'll confess to being a bit naive. This is a big part of the problem, people are willing to resort to threats of physical violence and vandalism just to protect their little fiefdoms. No wonder things are the way they are, can't see the forest for the trees. Thanks for sharing
Dave, if I lost you, I'm
Dave, if I lost you, I'm sorry. My tongue was planted firmly in my cheek for all of that except the rink. Hockey moms are tough and they will punch your lights out. :-)
There might not be violence or threats but, there is enormous public pressure against cutting service levels. I'm pretty sure the vast majority of people in our city expect the levels of service they currently receive.
Charlie, I have to confess to
Charlie, I have to confess to being a bit naive too.
You said: Here some advice for you when you are forced to work with the other members of Council to actually get something done.
Can't the same be said about cooperation in all levels of government?
I guess that I've always felt that it's a good thing if the same people that live, work, play and raise a family in Batavia are the same ones making decisions for Batavia.
I think that the further government gets "from the people", the less it is "by the people".
Excellent post Charlie. With
Excellent post Charlie. With regards to the items you mention, people are reluctant to change. Probably due to the fear of the unknown. I certainly would have liked to see some of those items go through even if it cost a few minutes in the penalty box.
I also agree that town governments in county of 50,000 are unnecessary. Utilizing economies of scale by consolidating services would be less wasteful. Also, a sense of community comes from the people, not from the government. I don't feel any closer to my fellow neighbor because I have a city government. You want community involvement, then the community itself needs to be involved. I certainly don't want an elected official doing things for good will just to get elected. Communities happen because people want them, not because government are there to facilitate them. Communities existed far before government did, and I am of the opinion that politics tears us further apart, not closer together.
Charlie; naive, not so
Charlie; naive, not so bright, something like that. I'm glad it's just exaggeration. Anecdotally, a good friend of mine was on a town council in Ohio and they were going through a debate over finances. He was on the side of raising property taxes and was vocal about it and wrote letters to the paper and so forth. He received threatening phone calls, hate mail, his mailbox repeatedly destroyed, people pulling in his driveway late at night and blowing the horn. Scared his wife pretty bad. People are crazy sometimes.
Thats the difference Charlie,
Thats the difference Charlie, I wouldn't compromise my positions. I won't "work with" other council members. MY way or the highway.
There is a street light on Rt 259 N. Union st. in the village of Spencerport where is crosses Big Ridge Rd. That light is on a timer. Thats a state street....
Albany is going to remain screwed up until NYC is no longer part of NY.
Posted by Peter O'Brien on
Posted by Peter O'Brien on April 29, 2010 - 12:45pm
Thats the difference Charlie, I wouldn't compromise my positions. I won't "work with" other council members. MY way or the highway.
Are you planning to run on that platform?
Peter, if you hate city
Peter,
if you hate city services and taxes, why did you move into the City?
Peter: MY way or the
Peter: MY way or the highway.
I used to think like that........Then I got married,
You'll see
"My way or the highway" And
"My way or the highway"
And you'll never get anything done. You would always be a marginal player, the lone dissenting vote on every issue, and because you never compromise and support other elected officials platforms, they'll never support yours.
Compromise is part of life and part of sound governmental administration.
Peter said “Thats the
Peter said “Thats the difference Charlie, I wouldn't compromise my positions. I won't "work with" other council members. MY way or the highway.”
I learned two things with my time on Council, patience and the ability to compromise. You are powerless in an elected body unless you can find a way to compromise. The other is patience, it took me a while to figure out that everyone else on the board wanted the very best for the city as well. They just had different experiences than I did and that made them look at things from a different angle. It might be frustrating to take in other people’s viewpoints but, it is very important to the process. That diversity is part of the reason our country is so strong. We don’t have a “strong man” in control. A single person who calls the shots is more likely to make mistakes.
That’s how politics work; the good ones can find common ground and bite their tongue for the good of the people they represent. Every mistake I made during that time could be directly traced back to a failure to value the opinions of everyone in the room.
John Most house for the
John
Most house for the money. I don't hate living in the city but I see many areas for great improvement over what is there now.
"A plague that needs to be
"A plague that needs to be eliminated"
Sounds like something that was said about city council not to long ago.