If fairness is the issue, then a per bag cost or per household cost should be the way that we go. On a good week, my wife and I barely place one bag of garbage at the curb. Recycling should be free and encouraged. My only fear is the illegal dumping etc that often happens when per bag stickers etc are inplemented. A thoughtful question but one that certainly would help seniors etc with tax costs.
I have no problem with ARC having the contract. I think the fee, based on the value of the home is wrong.
The fair way is to charge per home unit/business.
For the non profits, the amount of money spread over all of the units would be minimal to cover the service for them.
WOW!! Property, School, Business, Utility and even the Sales Taxes in Batavia and WNY are sky high, and the City Council is "investigating" garbage collection billing??
Tim, we already pay for it! The discussion is simply how we pay for it and if there is a way to make it less expensive and fair for everyone.
I am very interested to see how this will affect the individual household cost. I for one, don't know how much refuse collection adds up to on my bill, so I don't know it's real worth.
I disagree with you on one point, Bea. If we are going to go to a unit charge, then I think everyone should go.
I am not interested in a pay per bag deal. The city administration alone on that to me, sounds like it adds up to another government program. That we don't need!
By the way, Tim. There are a lot of bigger tax issues that need to be addressed, but I don't have a problem with a council member asking a question that "could" be beneficial...that's kind of the job.
Thank You Tim Raines!! My sentements exactly.. Lets think of all the poor, young and old. They can't even afford to feed themselves, and now they have to come up with money to buy a garbage bag?? I cant even imagine, what will happen to the garbage, much less the poor. Good point too Mr. Ricci, we already pay enough between taxes, and sewer & water.
The ones who are going to be upset about this are the renters. Presumably their garbage collection is included in their rent and if this goes through, they would be paying for it themselves. I was a renter when it was instituted in LeRoy and I wasn't happy about it but, in the end, it ended up costing me a few dollars a week. Not a huge deal. To me the biggest problem was forgetting to buy the bags (I understand they now have stickers) and being stuck on garbage day with my garbage. I quickly learned to always have a few extra bags on hand.
Karen,
This is being paid for with your taxes. The idea is to reduce YOUR taxes.
How to do that is the question. A flat fee per unit, per bag or with stickers. There are better ways than making you pay for others with your taxes based on the value of your home. How does the present system help the young or the old. This system screws them over.
John, it sounds like a Wash to me. Either way we will have to pay, ourselves, or in our taxes. Doesnt the city have Bigger eggs to fry than to eliminate more jobs, like our Local ARC. Reminds me of the ambulance thing.
oy-vay
In Ithaca, a decently comparable city, they sticker their bags, but all recyclables are picked up for no fee. Renters, including the college students, HATE the system, especially because buying the stickers is a pain in the butt.
However, they also pick up yard waste for no fee, for most of the year, except for when snow is on the ground.
Beth, you bring up a point that I've been thinking about, too. Renters. that's why I think the poll leans toward keeping the current system, and with all the renters in this town, why a change will be hard to get through.
They could still have the contract to pick up trash.
There is no reason for them to eliminate jobs. In fact, with this plan there might be more things recycled and ARC might have more work (a plus, right?).
Again, this is about how trash pick-up is paid for and to have everyone pay the same rate.
Karen, why should you have to pay for non profits?
Forty five years ago it wasn't a problem. Everyone had a burn barrel and a garbage can. The city picked up the garbage to feed their pigs and the eventually burned out barrel got hauled to the free dump on Cedar Street where you could often find a new one to replace it. Toxic waste? You bet, but who knew? No matter what I do for the rest of my life my carbon footprint will forever be large due to the good old days, when ignorance was bliss.
John, the nonforprofits thing is a gray area for me. I dont quite understand why they are any different than the rest. Do they produce more garbage than the rest of us or something. I cant comment on this till I know what it is about.
Ok, so if this get "solved" some how, say with bag stickers or a household cost of some amount per year, are we actually going to see the taxes go down, or will the money be re-allocated?
That's one of my biggest pet peeves! We look into all these options, debate, make the tough choice....then we "Re-Purpose" the money to some other program.
Well Chelsea/John, I can't speak to anyone else, but my stance will always be savings = savings. If we find ways to give it back....GIVE IT BACK!
Isn't it sad John that we've all come to a point where we just hope our taxes don't go up? We have got to change that!
Phil,
The cost of just doing city business (utilities, gas for police cars, etc) will keep going up. As a result, even with no new spending projects, taxes would go up.
If we can make a few cuts, great, they might balance it out. The way we pay for trash pickup might be one of the changes that could help.
That's why I want to consolidate youth service, not cut, but consolidate.
If the day ever comes where we could consolidate, not cut, then I'll be there with you.
As far as everything else, you're right. Unless we tackle some of the big things, cost management will be our goal. I just think that there is a lot of things that are not set up properly that is killing us.
This posting is not to "bash" the hard working City Council or any of the great citizens of Batavia concerning garbage billing, but to inform you about other communities.
Garbage billing being "investigated", or who leaked whatever letter to who, should not be a priority for the City Council . What should be discussed is WHY taxes are so high.
Why are Batavia property and school taxes thru the roof? In Batavia the total taxes on a 185k home are about $8000 yearly. In the community where I live it's presently $1100 yearly on a 185k home, and if you are over 63, you DON'T pay school taxes!
Over a 30 yr period, A Batavia citizen would pay approx $240,000 in property/school taxes. I have paid approx $25,000 over 30 yrs.
Batavia has a budget deficit. Where I live, the community has a $40 million surplus, and the school system a $210 million dollar surplus.
Schools, parks, libraries, roads, recreation facilities are always being built. Parks and other outdoor facilities enhance the quality of life. In Batavia, they are looked at as "too much traffic" and a tax burden.
My sales tax is presently 6%. Sales tax on food is 2%. 1% of sales taxes goes to road improvment, and that is voted on by the citizens every 2 yrs.
Batavia citizens pay 35% more for cable/phone/internet access than my community.
Approximate 10,000 people a month, yes, a month, for the last 30 yrs move to my area. In that same time frame, Batavia has lost 2500 citizens.
The citizens of Batavia should be asking the City Council why they spend so much more for living and services that other communities provide for a fraction of the cost.
As a past resident, Batavia is my hometown, and I would love to see the area prosper and grow.
The City Council and the Batavia School District needs to "investigate" the way it spends 99.8% of city/school revenue, that you pay, and not the .2%. ie > garbage billing.
Ask your relatives or friends who live outside of WNY what they pay in taxes. Their response will have you "scratching your head"
And, by the way, I pay $11 a month for weekly trash pickup with a rolling trash cart provided.
It should be privatized. End
It should be privatized. End of story. There is no reason for the city to be in the trash business.
I don't believe that's an
I don't believe that's an option for Batavia. Batavia has a contract with ARC that prevents that.
Howard is right in that the
Howard is right in that the city contracts for pick up. The city is does not do it.
It's how we pay for it that is the issue. Do you pay based on the value of your home?
Do you pay for non profits? Do you pay per bag or per home unit?
If fairness is the issue,
If fairness is the issue, then a per bag cost or per household cost should be the way that we go. On a good week, my wife and I barely place one bag of garbage at the curb. Recycling should be free and encouraged. My only fear is the illegal dumping etc that often happens when per bag stickers etc are inplemented. A thoughtful question but one that certainly would help seniors etc with tax costs.
I have no problem with ARC
I have no problem with ARC having the contract. I think the fee, based on the value of the home is wrong.
The fair way is to charge per home unit/business.
For the non profits, the amount of money spread over all of the units would be minimal to cover the service for them.
WOW!! Property, School,
WOW!! Property, School, Business, Utility and even the Sales Taxes in Batavia and WNY are sky high, and the City Council is "investigating" garbage collection billing??
Someone needs to check the priority list!
Tim, High taxes are why this
Tim,
High taxes are why this came up. Garbage fees are based on property taxes. Anything that can be done to lower them should be investigated, right?
Tim, we already pay for it!
Tim, we already pay for it! The discussion is simply how we pay for it and if there is a way to make it less expensive and fair for everyone.
I am very interested to see how this will affect the individual household cost. I for one, don't know how much refuse collection adds up to on my bill, so I don't know it's real worth.
I disagree with you on one point, Bea. If we are going to go to a unit charge, then I think everyone should go.
I am not interested in a pay per bag deal. The city administration alone on that to me, sounds like it adds up to another government program. That we don't need!
By the way, Tim. There are a lot of bigger tax issues that need to be addressed, but I don't have a problem with a council member asking a question that "could" be beneficial...that's kind of the job.
Thank You Tim Raines!! My
Thank You Tim Raines!! My sentements exactly.. Lets think of all the poor, young and old. They can't even afford to feed themselves, and now they have to come up with money to buy a garbage bag?? I cant even imagine, what will happen to the garbage, much less the poor. Good point too Mr. Ricci, we already pay enough between taxes, and sewer & water.
The ones who are going to be
The ones who are going to be upset about this are the renters. Presumably their garbage collection is included in their rent and if this goes through, they would be paying for it themselves. I was a renter when it was instituted in LeRoy and I wasn't happy about it but, in the end, it ended up costing me a few dollars a week. Not a huge deal. To me the biggest problem was forgetting to buy the bags (I understand they now have stickers) and being stuck on garbage day with my garbage. I quickly learned to always have a few extra bags on hand.
Karen, This is being paid for
Karen,
This is being paid for with your taxes. The idea is to reduce YOUR taxes.
How to do that is the question. A flat fee per unit, per bag or with stickers. There are better ways than making you pay for others with your taxes based on the value of your home. How does the present system help the young or the old. This system screws them over.
John, it sounds like a Wash
John, it sounds like a Wash to me. Either way we will have to pay, ourselves, or in our taxes. Doesnt the city have Bigger eggs to fry than to eliminate more jobs, like our Local ARC. Reminds me of the ambulance thing.
oy-vay
In Ithaca, a decently
In Ithaca, a decently comparable city, they sticker their bags, but all recyclables are picked up for no fee. Renters, including the college students, HATE the system, especially because buying the stickers is a pain in the butt.
However, they also pick up yard waste for no fee, for most of the year, except for when snow is on the ground.
Here is their info:
http://www.ci.ithaca.ny.us/index.asp?Type=B_BASIC&SEC={52A53612-247F-4AEF-82E9-96B050CAB55E}&DE={07AE0D86-0947-4AC7-8751-0013ABD4680B}
Beth, you bring up a point
Beth, you bring up a point that I've been thinking about, too. Renters. that's why I think the poll leans toward keeping the current system, and with all the renters in this town, why a change will be hard to get through.
Why would ARC lose work?
Why would ARC lose work?
They could still have the contract to pick up trash.
There is no reason for them to eliminate jobs. In fact, with this plan there might be more things recycled and ARC might have more work (a plus, right?).
Again, this is about how trash pick-up is paid for and to have everyone pay the same rate.
Karen, why should you have to pay for non profits?
Forty five years ago it
Forty five years ago it wasn't a problem. Everyone had a burn barrel and a garbage can. The city picked up the garbage to feed their pigs and the eventually burned out barrel got hauled to the free dump on Cedar Street where you could often find a new one to replace it. Toxic waste? You bet, but who knew? No matter what I do for the rest of my life my carbon footprint will forever be large due to the good old days, when ignorance was bliss.
John, the nonforprofits thing
John, the nonforprofits thing is a gray area for me. I dont quite understand why they are any different than the rest. Do they produce more garbage than the rest of us or something. I cant comment on this till I know what it is about.
Karen, Non profits do not pay
Karen,
Non profits do not pay property taxes, and that is how you pay for trash pickup now.
So, since they do not pay - you pay for them. I think that is wrong. Other people think we should pay for them.
Ok, so if this get "solved"
Ok, so if this get "solved" some how, say with bag stickers or a household cost of some amount per year, are we actually going to see the taxes go down, or will the money be re-allocated?
Chelsea, That would depend on
Chelsea,
That would depend on which method council picked.
Per unit, our cost should go down a bit since all tax exempt property would now help us pay.
Per bag or sticker; it would depend on how much you put out on the curb and how much you recycle.
As for taxes being reallocated, that would depend on council. To tell the truth, I’d be happy just to have them not go up.
That's one of my biggest pet
That's one of my biggest pet peeves! We look into all these options, debate, make the tough choice....then we "Re-Purpose" the money to some other program.
Well Chelsea/John, I can't speak to anyone else, but my stance will always be savings = savings. If we find ways to give it back....GIVE IT BACK!
Isn't it sad John that we've all come to a point where we just hope our taxes don't go up? We have got to change that!
Phil, The cost of just doing
Phil,
The cost of just doing city business (utilities, gas for police cars, etc) will keep going up. As a result, even with no new spending projects, taxes would go up.
If we can make a few cuts, great, they might balance it out. The way we pay for trash pickup might be one of the changes that could help.
That's why I want to consolidate youth service, not cut, but consolidate.
John, If the day ever
John,
If the day ever comes where we could consolidate, not cut, then I'll be there with you.
As far as everything else, you're right. Unless we tackle some of the big things, cost management will be our goal. I just think that there is a lot of things that are not set up properly that is killing us.
Phil, "Not set up properly".
Phil,
"Not set up properly". Like what?
This posting is not to "bash"
This posting is not to "bash" the hard working City Council or any of the great citizens of Batavia concerning garbage billing, but to inform you about other communities.
Garbage billing being "investigated", or who leaked whatever letter to who, should not be a priority for the City Council . What should be discussed is WHY taxes are so high.
Why are Batavia property and school taxes thru the roof? In Batavia the total taxes on a 185k home are about $8000 yearly. In the community where I live it's presently $1100 yearly on a 185k home, and if you are over 63, you DON'T pay school taxes!
Over a 30 yr period, A Batavia citizen would pay approx $240,000 in property/school taxes. I have paid approx $25,000 over 30 yrs.
Batavia has a budget deficit. Where I live, the community has a $40 million surplus, and the school system a $210 million dollar surplus.
Schools, parks, libraries, roads, recreation facilities are always being built. Parks and other outdoor facilities enhance the quality of life. In Batavia, they are looked at as "too much traffic" and a tax burden.
My sales tax is presently 6%. Sales tax on food is 2%. 1% of sales taxes goes to road improvment, and that is voted on by the citizens every 2 yrs.
Batavia citizens pay 35% more for cable/phone/internet access than my community.
Approximate 10,000 people a month, yes, a month, for the last 30 yrs move to my area. In that same time frame, Batavia has lost 2500 citizens.
The citizens of Batavia should be asking the City Council why they spend so much more for living and services that other communities provide for a fraction of the cost.
As a past resident, Batavia is my hometown, and I would love to see the area prosper and grow.
The City Council and the Batavia School District needs to "investigate" the way it spends 99.8% of city/school revenue, that you pay, and not the .2%. ie > garbage billing.
Ask your relatives or friends who live outside of WNY what they pay in taxes. Their response will have you "scratching your head"
And, by the way, I pay $11 a month for weekly trash pickup with a rolling trash cart provided.
But, I still can't get good pizza here.
Thank you.