Top Five Health Care Reform Lies

Very well written and clear... but the damage the lies have caused is already done. To quote someone, whose name I won't mention, to highlight how the damage was caused - "All propaganda has to be to be popular and has to accommodate itself to the comprehension of the least intelligent of those whom it seeks to reach." - "I use emotion for the many and reserve reason for the few." - "How fortunate for leaders that men do not think." - and, finally - "Make the lie big, make it simple, keep saying it, and eventually they will believe it."

On so-called lie #2 (I'm not sure any opponents have really made that accusation - I mean, I don't know, because I haven't heard it, but haven't followed that closely, either). What I think I have heard is the accusation, which seems reasonable, is that once there is a government run program, what incentive will employers have to offer insurance. Won't we de facto wind up in a situation where there is no more private insurance and everybody is on government? What will be the benefit or motivation to a business owner to offer health insurance once there is a government-paid alternative?

It would seem rather dictatorial to require employers to offer a program when there is a government alternative.

Then, won't people who work for a company that offers health insurance be paying twice for health insurance -- once through the company-sponsored program, and once their their taxes to pay for the government program? Taxpayers are then faced with the dilemma of paying twice or opting out of the private insurance in favor of the government option. As more and more people go that route, private insurance gets more expensive, because there's fewer people pooling resources, and government insurance gets more expensive because there are more people depending on it (sounds like a contradiction, but it's the the difference between how private enterprise and government agencies work).

So it may not be part of Obama's plan, so to speak, to do away with private insurance and get everybody into single payer, but that seems that the unavoidable and obvious eventual outcome.

Here's an interesting post from Reason about a mid-west newspapers <a href="http://www.reason.com/blog/show/135772.html">editorial recommendation that Obama just start over</a>.

The health care will have to be rationed when government can no longer afford care for everyone signed up. It is inevitable. That will lead to a panel to decide who get care. Grandma will be low on the priority list because they already have her money and she is going to cost more. Simple business decision

America already is bankrupt. His plan will just hurt us more.

Oh and private companies will not be able to sign new customers under the current house bill.

If there were going to be death panels, wouldn't insurance companies have them? I mean, talk about a profit motive, a simple business decision ...

Of course, families can sue insurance companies, and if the publicity is bad enough, it can damage their business, whereas with the government, can't sue them and bureaucrats seem immune to bad publicity ...

Prohibit buying private insurance? That line is actually true to a degree, it's from Section 102 of one of the many plans tabled... but it's taken way out of context and doesn't explain how private companies would then sell - in short, you just cherry-picked the message you want to convey from it without explaining really what it says or does. This line is from the plan that creates a national insurance pool, which eliminates X company independently issuing policies which you call up the company and pay for out of pocket (existing policies grandfathered in). You can still get said private policies, but the way you buy them will change. If you want these, they are bought from the aforementioned national insurance pool, which greatly broadens the risk pools, which in turn makes policies cheaper and prevents them from dumping you if you get sick or had pre-existing conditions.

Here's <a href="http://www.dailyyonder.com/insured-health-care-rural-and-urban/2009/09/… interesting map showing percentage of uninsured under age 65 in rural counties</a>.

Looks like Texas could really use some Obamacare.

And here's something on <a href="http://irjci.blogspot.com/2009/09/area-where-free-medical-clinics-treat… rural area that has put together resources to provide free to the health care for the poor</a>.

Lie #1: President Obama wants to euthanize your grandma!!!
That is correct, and "death panels" is a term coined by Sarah Palin on her Facebook page, however no one has been able to justify the need for a Government panel to enforce "end of life planning". There has been no public outcry on the lack of education being offered now for living wills, DNR's, health care proxy's, etc.. All of these services are openly offered and encouraged under the current system. If it is not an existing problem, then why are proposing another layer of expensive beaurocracy. It is logical then that people would draw the conclusion that the government would encourage pain management over treatment at the end of life. A read of the VA "Your Life, Your Choice" booklet sent to all aging veterans offers an interesting glimpse of where this debate is going.

Lie #2: Democrats are going to outlaw private insurance and force you into a government plan!!!
That also is correct. They won't have to outlaw them, they will be driven out of existence. President Obama and most of the left have been unabashed proponents of universal healthcare for all of their political careers. Barney Franks and others have openly come out and said that they know they can't get universal healthcare past the American public in one shot so the public option is a way towards it. The fact is there are some 1400 to 1500 healthcare plans available in the US right now. Are we to beleive that ONE more choice will transform the industry? Yes it will. Employers who are already dealing with struggling bottom lines will be faced with the choice of paying fines, offering existing healthcare plans they couldn't afford before, or defaulting to the public option. The choice will be simple. In a pool of 1500 players, the one who makes the rules, doesn't have to show a profit, and isn't tied down to property, income, and other tax burdens will soon drive the others out of business. It is simple economics. I would have more respect if the administration would just be honest and say, yes this is our way of getting to universal healthcare and stop being disingenuous about their intentions by putting fancy names on it.

Lie #3: President Obama wants to implement Soviet-style rationing!!! haven't heard that one.

Lie #4: Obama is secretly plotting to cut senior citizens' Medicare benefits!!!
Lie #5: Obama's health care plan will bankrupt America!!!
Simple math supports lies 4 and 5. Without fixing the problems that have led to this problem in the first place(we need tort reform, insurance reform, lobby reform and complete portability) then how can you add millions of people into an already strapped system, cut costs and offer MORE services without cutting other benefits, raising taxes, borrowing more money, or simply printing money? We continue to buy the notion that we need to spend massive amounts more money to avoid bankruptcy. It is illogical and reckless.
We need healthcare reform and we need it now, just not this one.

Is anyone (other than Mr. Allen) familiar with the Veterans Administration 'death book'? If it is deemed good enough for our veterans, certainly it will be deemed good enough for civilians as well. The <b>only</b> end of life counseling organization listed to seek more information from is the one formerly known as the Hemlock Society.

Unfortunately the same playbook is being used with health care reform that was used to get us into the Iraq War. Remember the lies that were pushed -- "Iraq -- 9-11" "Mushroom cloud" "Weapons of mass destruction". Fast forward to Health care reform and we have -- "Socialism" and "death panels" as the new buzz words. Toss in "insuring the Mexicans" for an extra helping of fear and the game is on. People do believe what they're hearing when health care opposition, via 1.4 million dollars of special interest money per day is used to deliver myths, distortions and lies to a segment of society who are receptive to their message. 1.4 million dollars a day to defeat this is lots of fear $.

A recent NBC/Wall Street Journal poll uncovered some alarming misconceptions out there:

1. Opponents of reform have twisted a provision of the bill regarding planning living wills into untrue claims that the government would start making decisions about when to stop providing care to the elderly, and 45% of Americans FALSELY believe them.

2. Although the public option we support will be just that -- an option that would give Americans more choice and keep private insurance companies honest -- 54% of Americans FALSELY believe health care reform would lead to a "government takeover of the health care system."

3. The non-partisan accountability group FactCheck.org says President Obama's plan will cover only those who are legally in the U.S., but 55% of Americans FALSELY believe President Obama's plan would extend health insurance coverage to illegal immigrants. In fact, the very Republicans who are demagoguing this idea voted for this same language in President Bush's Medicare part D bill in 2003.

Notice you said Obama's plan and not the bill before Congress which will open it up to illegal aliens

The plan before Congress is HR3200... and it does not provide for Illegal Immigrants... In fact, it has a section that explicitly says "No Federal Payment for Undocumented Aliens" as the very title of Section 246... please go read the thing...

thomas.loc.gov

The following is an excerpt from a report titled “Treatment of Noncitizens in H.R. 3200” by the non-partisan Congressional Research Service

“In addition, under H.R. 3200, a “Health Insurance Exchange” would begin operation in 2013 and would offer private plans alongside a public option. The Exchange would provide eligible individuals and small businesses with access to insurers’ plans, including the public option, in a comparable way. Individuals would only be eligible to enroll in an Exchange plan if they were not enrolled in other acceptable coverage (for example, from an employer, Medicare and generally Medicaid). H.R. 3200 does not contain any restrictions on noncitzens participating in the Exchange—whether the noncitizens are legally or illegally present, or in the United States temporarily or permanently.”

Section 246 is an example of putting a big sign over a door the says NO ADMITTANCE then leaving the door open and calling it secure.

Actually, Section 246 takes care of things quite well. Even Non-Resident Aliens (legal, but temporary) are addressed in separate sections and do not qualify either...

Any further mention in a new bill is overkill, there's already laws on the books that explicitly state that illegal immigrants are not eligible for any Federal Programs... Title IV of the Personal Responsibility and Work Opportunity Reconciliation Act took care of that in 1996.

I just want to say -- many of the posts in this thread are exactly why I believe having news sites with comments is a good idea and can work ... people sharing actual useful information that can be discussed. There's been some very useful comments in this thread, I think, not just spouting or pontificating.

Thank you Bea, I was only posting part of a report that appears to leave the door open for illegals. The report also points out that there are no proof of citizenship requirements, so claiming that it won't include them and the realities how the bill will be enforced are sketchy at best. I don't trust that with all the vague language in differing parts of the bill that illegals won't end up on our healthcare dime. My skepticism is based on the less thsn stellar job our government has done in not only keeping illegal aliens out of our country but in keeping them from being a drain on our already stretched public resources once they are here.

I don't know who the Luwain group is. The report I read is from the Congressional Research Service which is a department of the Library of Congress.

History

In 1914, Congress passed legislation to establish a separate department within the Library of Congress. President Woodrow Wilson signed the bill into law, and CRS, then called the Legislative Reference Service, was born to serve the legislative needs of the Congress.

With the Legislative Reorganization Act of 1970, Congress renamed the agency the Congressional Research Service and significantly expanded its statutory obligations. The services provided today by CRS are a direct result of congressional directives and guidance.

Mission
CRS is committed to supporting an informed national legislature — by developing creative approaches to policy analysis, anticipating legislative needs and responding to specific requests from legislators in a timely manner. With a rigorous adherence to our key values, CRS provides analysis that is authoritative, confidential, objective and nonpartisan.

http://www.loc.gov/crsinfo/whatscrs.html

Fear is the tactic and lying is part of the delivery system. They just pulled out another arrow in their quiver a few days ago. This one is a survey that the RNC sent out which is actually a push poll. A push poll is a technique used by both sides to push negative information. In this case the information being suggested, in the 13 questions, is that Republicans would be singled out and discriminated against for medical care under the Democratic reform system. Here's the AP article -- http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/08/29/AR20090…

I also found this article on NPR quite interesting on the history, science and biology of fear as it relates to the current health care reform proposal and how it compares to reform initiatives of the past. http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=112315433

The problem that I find so disturbing are the blatant bald faced lies. How in the world do the people that frame this bunk sleep at night?

Posted by Jeff Allen on September 1, 2009 - 8:12pm
Thank you Bea, I was only posting part of a report that appears to leave the door open for illegals. The report also points out that there are no proof of citizenship requirements, so claiming that it won't include them and the realities how the bill will be enforced are sketchy at best. I don't trust that with all the vague language in differing parts of the bill that illegals won't end up on our healthcare dime. My skepticism is based on the less thsn stellar job our government has done in not only keeping illegal aliens out of our country but in keeping them from being a drain on our already stretched public resources once they are here.

-That's ok by me, the sections highlighted, coupled with public laws already on the books, are what convince me it isn't going to happen. I'm certainly no expert on the bill as it's a lot to read and take in, nor am I an expert in illegal immigration or how one obtains medical treatment in the US under those circumstances. But that just brings up a bigger issue, that they really don't need insurance, public or private, to get medical attention. Just show up to any emergency room/fast track service and stiff the bill. Eventually either Medicare, Health & Human Services (which contributes $250 million per year), or a non-profit funding organization will pick up the bill, one that costs considerably more than a doctors office visit. Then there's the ethical responsibility that Doctors treat any patient within the Declaration of Geneva & Hippocratic Oath. So really here, you're not getting around paying for it, and the only options are a) mass deportation, or b) amnesty.... which, to me, means you get the joy of playing with a double edged sword.

I like option A

Who will do the intensive labor in farming then, and how much will food prices go up? That's the rub with that choice.

How about teenagers working at the farms, it's what we all did when I was in school and now teengage unemployment is at an all time high. There, two problems solved.