Tonight's the night to unite against crime and misery

and its all free too!!!

except for the tax money being used to fund it.

Whats wrong with using tax dollars on a community event?

Nothing, just stating that its not free. However if we are in debt, that should be paid off first before doing things like this.

Posted by Peter O'Brien on August 4, 2009 - 11:36am
except for the tax money being used to fund it.

Peter,
By all means stay at home, turn out your lights, and enjoy not participating in anything that would add value to the community.
Funny, you don't mind tax money being spent on the ice rink because you use ice time, nor do you mind the electricity consumed to operate the ice rink.
There are times when I, too, find tax money wasted. But, this is a family event, open to the entire community for a good cause.
You may feel that you are an island unto yourself. You don't need a neighborhood watch program, because you can fend for yourself. All well and good.
I honestly pray that your entire lifetime is spent without ever needing the help of those around you.
The ironic thing is that there will always be someone ready with a safety net if you needed one. Those generous folks who will give without asking what's in it for me.
You may mock community spirit, but it is what makes the difference between a place to live and a hometown.

I don't think its being wasted and I have never been to Falletti.

Where do I mock community spirit? I mock 1/365 days being spent to combat bad neighborhoods. One night has no affect.

I have gotten to know both of my neighbors. I even accepted help from one of them this past winter who helped me dig out my driveway when I had cleaned in 3 times in 18 hours 2 days prior and was struggling to lift the shovel so I could get to work the next morning. (all this before I got my used snow blower and then got it fixed) He wouldn't accept payment so I got him a gift certificate to Larry's for Christmas.

You write as if my favorite place to live would be the moon with nothing around. You forget that I chose to live in a city.

Safety doesn't come from living in a good or bad neighborhood. It comes from your choices in life. You can live in the worst neighborhood in the world but if you are friendly and not an asshole to those around you, people respect that and your chances of being the victim of a crime are severely diminished.

I will be out tonight. After I visit Lowes (got to love big box stores and the convenience of shopping online and being able to pick up what you want at the door on the way home) and pick up the hardware I need to fix my spigot (that my neighbor noticed got cracked and was leaking like a sieve and told me about when I missed it last winter) I am going to the ball game.

But I will be turning off my motion sensor so that it does not light up tonight.

Posted by Joe Teresi on August 4, 2009 - 12:24pm
Whats wrong with using tax dollars on a community event?

Joe, just shrug it off.
Peter has often told us he has thought long and hard on his POV and he is convinced that he is right. No amount of discussion is about to change his mind.
If he says that Batavia should NOT participate in a National Night Out, then we better close the city because it is the way Peter wants it.
There is only one road for Peter, and it is his.

That statement is a bit hypocritical Bea. Its not ok for me to say how I want things to be, but you can tell Joe exactly what to think about me because you know best...

Little Peter has an inferiority complex.

look out for the pick pockets and car thefts.
politicians prob be there, there the biggest crooks.im turning off my light, save money i have gone green lol

Let's see. Care-A-Van will be there. Are they there to pick your pockets? Are they supported by your tax dollars?

The boys will be in their bunkers tonight. With lots of bullets and bottled water. Bea will be out partying! Drink a Pepsi for me girl.

I do appreciate and am thankful for the effort but it's sort of a band aid for cancer. I'm no expert, but I assume most problems in Batavia, Genesee County, New York or even America have deeper routes that need to be addressed at home, in the schools and even in a broader sense........at a young age.

And please, if we are going to bash one another, lets make sure we don't assume anything. This is a wonderful website but my patronage has gone down considerably because it's tiring, if not annoying, to see someone like Peter make a valid point (i.e., it's not free. That is one hundred percent correct, is it not?) and other people crusify him and put words into his mouth.

Oh Tyler, stop. You can't go away from the Batavian, even if you try, and I know because I try. Your voice and the voice of Peter NoNo are heard loud and clear. In my mind you are pretty much young and confused, but I love hearing what you have to say. It's so much more intelligent than anything Fox or Rush has to say. But remember, that's in my mind. Breath deep and think about Peace, it helps. I miss John Lennon, he understood.

Peter, a little over the top don't you think? Live life and enjoy it. It's a perfect night for the kids to enjoy a movie put on by volunteers and community groups.

I just left Austin Park. What a wonderful opportunity for the children of the area to see our law enforcement and fire personnel (ooops, wtg Kyle - wtg Goodwin on the double)in a setting that is relaxed and enjoyable. Maybe these children will grow up not to 'hate' them.

I learned, tonight, that the city did finance this evening but it was at a minimal cost. The commercial vendors who did use electricity paid for their spots. I'm sure they won't make the cost of the rental back since the prices they charged were beyond reasonable.

Care-A-Van was there giving away cookies. I didn't see one political booth.

Batavia is leading in the 5th inning and I honestly can say this was a lovely evening.

George, the only thing I had was a sno-cone.

My daughter and great grandson are coming to my place to make dessert.

I hope Batavia continues this effort for years to come.

My mom and I took my grandson Christopher to the "evil doings" at the park tonight. There were so many kids I couldn't count them and they were all having a blast. It was really nice to get out, the weather was wonderful and it was very well planned. They charged for refreshments and games but it was at minimal cost. When I took Chris home he was excitedly telling his parents about his adventure. He's 7 years old... This outing made his day.
Bottom line...Put all your petty crap and political BS aside. Take a deep breath and relax....THIS is what it's all about.

Good heavens! I'm surprised that anyone would be against doing something good for kids, families, and the community as a whole.

I would much rather have tax dollars spent on something that "means something"!!

Kids today are missing out on so much, this is a great opportunity for them to learn and have fun too!

Thanks to all who participated in making this a success! Hope you'll be doing it next year...

I don't think anyone said that they were against this type of program. Peter and Tyler simply stated that the program is not free, it's funded by the tax payers.

However, compared to other places that have the same kind of night, I don't know how much this will actually impact the Batavia/Genesee County population/area. Although I haven't lived here long, I did grow up in the Rochester area, and it seems as though there is a pretty low rate of violent crime. Generally National Night Out is aimed at lowering violent and drug crime in higher crime areas, like the city of Rochester.

It's a good thought, but don't know if it's worth the money that was spent on it.

Posted by Chelsea Dobson on August 5, 2009 - 6:19am
I don't think anyone said that they were against this type of program. Peter and Tyler simply stated that the program is not free, it's funded by the tax payers.

However, compared to other places that have the same kind of night, I don't know how much this will actually impact the Batavia/Genesee County population/area. Although I haven't lived here long, I did grow up in the Rochester area, and it seems as though there is a pretty low rate of violent crime. Generally National Night Out is aimed at lowering violent and drug crime in higher crime areas, like the city of Rochester.

It's a good thought, but don't know if it's worth the money that was spent on it.

Exactly how much money was spent?
This was event for children to interact with each other and with those who work to protect them.

If that night made a positive impact on ONE child in that crowd then it was worth whatever money was spent.

Is there a population or crime rate protocol for National Night Out? If so, why isn't it stated that a small community, like Batavia - or even smaller towns and villages, should not participate because their crime rate or drug rate is not as high as larger cities?

It's not wrong for a comunity to come together and do something for the greater good. Even in bad or hard times there has to be some good, some faith, some hope.

Without that...why bother getting up in the morning?

Thats just crap Bea. If it cost the city 10 million dollars and only one child ended up with a positive outlook on any aspect that was presented, that is failure.

This whole "if only one live is saved" or "if only one child is helped" argument is just crap on stick.

Based on that since we had one student graduate with a 4.0 the schools are successful. If firefighters saved only one person all year from all the house fires, that is success. If only one citation was written for weeds that is a success. If only one traffic ticket was written for speeding, that is a success. How does any of that justify the budgets? Answer it doesn't.

Charlie,
As for being over the top, since 1984 do you feel this program has helped make things safer? If you do read Fred Gundell's blog post from yesterday and the comments associated with it.

Susan,
You make your own day good by how you choose to react to what happens around you. No one chooses your mood for you.

I don't get up hoping that things will change. I get up and share my knowledge to affect that change. I also get up because I like my paycheck and that's more than enough reason for me.

Bad days happen at no fault of the people having them. My husband died and I had the "mother of bad days" and I was in a nasty ass bad mood. was that my fault? Leave it to you to "twist it around" as you put it. You always whine that people twist your words.. Yet you do it to EVERYONE... No one gives a shit why YOU get up in the morning. Life is not so black and white. Of course you don't have kids. You want the world to be a better place for you. whats easier for you... whats better for you... whats cheaper for you. When you become a parent everything you do is for them. If they go to the park for an evening and waste the citys electric or if leave the light on all night (glup) because they are afraid of the dark and "waste energy"...if the world ends tomorrow I want to know they were happy, had great memories and knew I loved them. One of these days you'll see.

Life is black and white.

I know several people that celebrated the death of their loved ones and while they missed them, it didn't put them in foul moods. They were sad but cheery at the same time. You choose your reactions to the things around you. You let things get to you, or you don't.

When the city is planning on spending $2,000,000 on debt related expenses this year, having a festival (because that's what it was) that doesn't generate a net gain hurts everyone.

All they needed to do was charge some admission fees to earn back the money they invested.

Quit playing the "you don't have children card". The city is not responsible for providing your children with something to do. That's your job. You chose to have them, you provide for them.

Charlie,
I scanned the budget looking for how much was invested in last evening. Do you think the city could at least post a version of the budget on its website that is searchable? Could you tell me how much it cost the city to put this on?

Posted by Peter O'Brien on August 5, 2009 - 7:09am

I don't get up hoping that things will change. I get up and share my knowledge to affect that change.

Do you honestly believe that you possess all of the knowledge that this world needs to effect change? How pompous can one get? I read yesterday that in order to get older and wiser one must first be young and stupid.
This is why I can be semi tolerant of your high opinion of yourself. You have become a legend in your own mind.

I also get up because I like my paycheck and that's more than enough reason for me.
So, does that mean you stayed in bed the entire time you were collecting unemployment insurance?

National Night Out, in Batavia, was a success. It didn't cost millions of dollars and what little it did cost was worth the time, effort and money. The kids watched a demonstration of the canine corps; inspected a fire truck from top to bottom; got a chance to playfully dunk an officer of the law; had their faces painted; did sand art; and more.
They watched the luminaries (no electricity) glow at sunset.
Simple pleasures that will leave a lasting memory. What harm was there in that.
And, yes, I will stand by the comment...if that evening made a postive impact on ONE child, it was worth it.

No I don't have all the knowledge in the world but what I do have I share because I believe that it is the best way to affect everyone positively.

Whoopie they had fun. So what! They could have had that fun in a way that generated revenue instead of spending it.

Posted by Peter O'Brien on August 5, 2009 - 7:54am
Life is black and white.

I know several people that celebrated the death of their loved ones and while they missed them, it didn't put them in foul moods. They were sad but cheery at the same time. You choose your reactions to the things around you. You let things get to you, or you don't.

How would you like to be a young parent that receives that phone call? You have crossed the line Peter. Your arrogance is going to bite you one day.
Susan's husband died at 42. It was unexpected - and while she celebrated his life - the news that he passed while on a business trip was difficult. Not be put in a foul mood? Please explain how someone remains cheery after hearing that? How does one remain cheery while telling her four kids that their father died? How does one not let the untimely death of a spouse not 'get to you'?

What arrogance? Did I say it was wrong to be upset, no. I just said that you CAN affect your mood if you want too. You CAN choose to view things in a different light.

How he died and why and at what age are of no consequence to this. Does it suck, yes, but life goes on.

My grandfather was literally suffocating to death over a period of days thanks to Pulmonary Fibrosis. I was saddened and after a quick emotional outburst, I decided to remember who he was and what he did and I became much happier. Over the three days I had here with him before I had to return to the ship, my best day was our last together. I got up early I went to Brugger's and got a bagel and orange juice and a paper and went to see him. I spent my entire day there with him. I was in a great mood spending that time with him even though he was intibated and in a medically induced coma. I read my newspaper had my bagel and remembered all things we had done knowing that this was the last time I was going to see him.

After his death several days later I was again sad and expressed it. Once again I choose to be ok with it and continued my work in the dry dock. When the Captain personally asked me if I want to go home for the funeral I said no because I chose how I reacted to his death. In one way, I made a wrong decision but hind sight is 20/20. It bothered me that I was the only grandson not there to carry is casket to the burial site. I chose again to let it bother me. After I had another chance to come home months later I went to the grave and said my goodbyes. I chose then to release my feelings. It was also the day I truly knew that Chelsea was the one I wanted to be with forever. Now I look back at all that suffering he endured and how I felt and though I didn't know it then it was a blessing.

I was bothered by my grandfather's passing enough to question my faith. For a while I didn't believe God could possibly exist. I won't bore you with the details of my grandfather's life but he was a Marine and a truly talented individual. He attended mass every sunday and was an usher at the church. My thoughts often wandered to how a merciful God could let a man like this suffer the way he did at the end of his life. I still don't know why the suffering had to occur. But I do know why I was not supposed to carry him to his resting place. I was supposed to visit his grave with Chelsea. God I am sure influenced that. I am not very spiritual. But an atheist I am not and I can attribute that to my grandfather as well.

I no longer look back on his death in sadness but gratefulness.

Posted by Peter O'Brien on August 5, 2009 - 7:07am
Thats just crap Bea......
Charlie,
As for being over the top, since 1984 do you feel this program has helped make things safer? If you do read Fred Gundell's blog post from yesterday and the comments associated with it.
Posted by Peter O'Brien on August 4, 2009 - 11:27am
Childhood obesity is the fault of the parent. Its not about the kid getting outside to play. Fat kids existed back then too. Its about the parent not taking an responsibility or feeling any shame toting tubby around.

I went back and read Fred's post and comments. Where in Fred's original post was childhood obesity mentioned?
Who mentioned toting tubby around? Who argued that it wasn't the parents' responsibility?

Yes, most of us who lived through those times do think that life was simpler. The kids, last night, got a taste of that simpler life.

Furthermore, how does someone remain cheery or happy or not let it 'get to me' after coming to The Batavian every day and just hearing a queen fulfill her daily objective of bashing on Peter? Jeez, Bea, in so many words he was saying that happiness comes from within. And even though most people, myself included, would be very upset at an immediate family member's death, pure happiness is through each person's standards. Gosh, 90 percent of the people on this site have to complain about weeds????? Like seriously?? My warm prayers goes out to Susan and her family, but then again this has nothing to do with Susan. It's more of Bea commenting directly after every time Peter has something to say.

"The simpler life" can be shared many ways, not just at National Night Out. Going to a baseball game and having a hot dog and peanuts is simple. Going to a lake/beach to play in the water and watch sunsets is simple. Going for a bike ride and stopping for ice cream is simple. Making friends with neighbors, and trusting neighbors, is simple.

While this post isn't the one about how "life was easier", you shouldn't need a city-sponsored event to spend time with kids. There are plenty of other options out there. National Night Out isn't meant to JUST provide children and families a way to bond, but it's meant to help prevent crime. So, once again, I don't think the benefits outweigh the costs for a Batavia National Night Out.

"We drank water from a garden hose, and NOT from a bottle. We shared one soft drink with four friends, from one bottle, and NO ONE actually died. We ate cupcakes, whitebread, and real butter and drank koolaid made with sugar, but we weren't overweight because we were ALWAYS outside playing! We would leave home in the morning and play all day, as long as we were home when the streetlights came on. No one was able to reach us all day. And we were OK !"

You need better reading glasses Bea.

Posted by Peter O'Brien on August 5, 2009 - 8:29am
What arrogance? Did I say it was wrong to be upset, no. I just said that you CAN affect your mood if you want too. You CAN choose to view things in a different light.

Please explain how the circumstances surrounding Susan's loss have no consequence, yet you can relate the story of your grandfather's death in great detail. I'm sorry for your loss. It is never easy.

I just said that you CAN affect your mood if you want too. You CAN choose to view things in a different light.

In your vast life experience, please teach us all how one should change their mood to cheery when the news that a husband and father is lying on a slab in the Cook County morgue? Explain to us all, what 'different light' is appropriate for the moment? That, my friend, is arrogance!

Look Peter I will Not argue this or any other point with you because you have not had the life experience to back your side. I feel that tho we live 2 blocks away, we live miles apart as far as experience is concerned. You have your POV and I have mine. We don't have to agree and I'm ok with that.

and for the record. You can't "get over" or "move on" with something that was taken away from you. That life ended the day he died. I have rebuilt my "new" life and I'm a very happy laid back person. My kids and I took the good memories with us and left the rest behind.

oh and as far as the "you don't have kids card" You don't have kids... so you don't understand. Come back in 20 years and tell me you have all the answers....cause let me tell you the older you get the more you realize once you think you have life all figured out...something happens to make you realize you haven't got a clue. LOL This is experience talking...

At one point in time you probably knew it Bea, but as we grow older we also tend to become more crotchety. this blog and several others as pure examples. Happiness is relative. Get over it. Honestly, you are jus beating up words just to make your crown bigger.

They are of no consequence to finding a better view. I don't know enough about him and their relationship to find that view for them.

Tyler, if I was as eloquent as you in the transfer of my thoughts to words, I think half these arguments wouldn't happen. Thanks for the support.

While I enjoy an argument as much as the next person, Peter and Bea have taken it to a personal level. I enjoy speaking on issues, while trying to have an open mind to the other person's opinion. You both look to nit pick what the other says, and it's getting old. Peter, you are arrogant. Good or bad, that's who you present yourself to be on this page. And Bea, you allowed this young man to get under your skin, and it looks like you may be picking on whatever he posts. Let's all try to be a lttle nicer to each other, and continue some communicating here at the Batavian.

To the question of cost- I would rather see a night of community and good spirits, in which anyone who wants to participate is able, than nothing ever done. I take great pride in being a part of Genesee county, and especially Leroy. Not because of the politics, taxes, and BS, but rather because it is a small, safe area. Last night's cost was minimal I'm sure, versus the good feelings and comraderie it created. Not everyone is as self sufficient as you are Pete, so sometimes it is a good idea to gather the locals and shoot the shit. I would much rather talk to someone face to face, and last night was a perfect venue for such an activity.
BTW, what about summer in the city, xmas in the city, music on the square, parades? Are these also worthless expenditures? I don't think so. These events help to foster a sense of belonging, and that is more important than money.

Bud,
This sense of belonging can be done at a profit to the city if they choose to earn it. I haven't been to the events mentioned. But I know that in Spencerport, the fireman's carnival and canal days are two events that make money for the firefighters and village respectively while creating the same sense of belonging.

I think festivals, carnivals, parties in the parks, etc are all great ways to build communities, and can be considered "costs" to the city. I think bringing together people in a community can bring about fantastic things. Christmas in the city, etc, are wonderful, they bring together people and celebrate things that most people can connect with and to.

National Night Out is meant, generally, to lower crime rates and increase community awareness of those crimes. It is not meant to be a festival or carnival, it's meant to help bring about results in a community. If there was a Community Awareness Week Festival, that brought in rides, vendors, etc, it would not only build community but increase spending in Batavia. I'm not against the idea of what National Night Out stands for, but I don't think National Night Out, what it was originally meant for, impacts Batavia.

I believe in the starfish theory (helping out just one person matters to that person), but it generally only applies on a personal level. Spending thousands of dollars to change one person, in my opinion, isn't worth the thousands when it can be spent on something else that would affect more people.

Peter, I also didn't see it in the budget. I called Charlie and he said something like that doesn't need a vote if it costs less then $500. The majority of the cost to the City last night was for police over-time. The other costs would pretty much only be for clean up. Since the main message last night was for the benefit of the police I would hope they would go easy on the City for the over-time. As for the exact costs, we won't know that until we get the overtime bill. The DPW already cleans the park so there is minimal additional costs or maybe none at all.

Blah Blah Blah little Peter created another meaningless controversy to make himself feel like people really care what he thinks about a freaking hot dog cook out.

Peter wrote:
“Charlie, as for being over the top, since 1984 do you feel this program has helped make things safer?”

Peter, I think anything we do to build a sense of community and make children aware that police are not the enemy makes us safer.

I also get that you like to debate but, usually your arguments have a bit more substance than picking on a kids “night out” event put on by volunteers. As for the costs, people pay for police protection and they expect it when they are in the city. The city has an obligation to protect its citizens, so saying an event cost taxpayer money because we provided police protection skirts the truth in my book.

If everyone just ignored little Peter he would have to try to boost his self esteem by actually acomplishing something or simply fade away to looserville.

I wasn't trying to debate this from the start. I just didn't want people to think it was free. There is always a cost. That set off a fire storm that got out of control and I did nothing to try and stop it.

I don't think its a bad idea just ineffectual and tax money wasted is tax money wasted regardless of the amount.

Peter, I understand but, you also have to put some weight to the idea that the city has an obligation to provide police protection. The fact that we knew there was a possibility that a lot of our citizens where going to be crowded into a park obligated us to provide protection. How they got there is irrelevant. People were there and we as a city are obligated to do our best to provide security. The merits of the event are a separate issue and really unrelated to costs.

That is why Council developed an event policy. The city will provide most events the first $500 in costs for services, over and above that we expect the event to help defray. That’s a standard policy with the city now. There are some who believe it is way too low of a number and we should encourage more events by doing away with the policy. The policy was middle ground and was come to by unanimous agreement a couple of years ago. Democracy usually helps us find the center of every argument and that is where we are at on this issue.

Can we please stop this bickering about each other and stick to the issues. From either side, the constant bringing in the other person's personality/style/character is useless and beside the point and most people don't like reading it. It diminishes the value of the conversation for most people.

Immediately after my last comment, somebody used it as a reason to again attack another site member. Stop it. If you find yourself writing about another person on the site, just stop. Delete it. Think about a real issue to write about and write about that.

UPDATE: Bea asks that I clarify that the last, deleted, comment did not come from her. Sorry for any implication otherwise.

Seemed like a positive thing to me..No different than the Friday nite concerts in Jackson square,or the concerts in Centenial Park,or the parks program..Besides isn't that what park are all about people getting together and hanging out..not to sure why the police need overtime to do this though...

I was at the event last evening representing the City Fire Department on the ambulance. I have to say that there is no amount of money that could be "wasted" better then last nights event.

The one thing that society seriously lacks is concern and compassion for their fellow man. People are self absorbed and only want for themselves. They have a tendancy to forget that there are other people including children in the big picture of life.

As we are very well aware, the economy is hitting everyone very hard. Parents can't afford to take their kids to carnivals and movies. Even $20 can upset the apple cart budget. Last nights' event proved that family and fun can be had for very little or no cost. It was a time that parents could take their kids to an event and not have to worry about anything.

With the exception of Teddy Bear Clinic, I have never entertained more kids at one time who wanted to see the inside of an ambulance. They were excited and asked lots of very interesting questions. I answered them with just as much excitement. The kids learned that no matter what venue they stopped at that the adults were there for them. The stage was theirs to command. This gives children a sense of worth and security. It also shows them that there are alot of adults out in the community that are there for them if they need help.

I would dare say that with the hundreds of kids that were there, the event probably broke down to pennies per person. If that amount of money is offensive to you then I am sorry. You missed out on the greatest gift the good lord gave us, the laughter and smile of a child.

It sure sounds like it was a success. Kudos and thanks for everyone that helped put it together for the community.