Council gets testy -- wants quick action on ordinance to clean up properties

I understand about the need to be tough on homeowners and/or landlords (rental) properties on the outside appearance but this is getting a bit too, intrusive for renters and owners. I think this will cost taxpayers more money to hire people to inspect, rent to increase, and more landlords and homeowners to sell properties due to financial or legal issues. Just what we need, more FORSALE signs on lawns here in Batavia. More people will move out of Batavia, and then we can enjoy the urban blight like Buffalo has now. Good idea that will help raise the value of everyones property !

Why don't they just toughen up the laws that they have now and really inforce them and then go from there.

Are we going to demand that parking lots and driveways be paved more often as well?
How about paint? Many houses in Batavia could use a scrap and paint job. If I choose a color that is an eye sore like on Time Bomb Tattoo will I be fined for that?
Will the City demand that my car be in good repair to and not look like a junker even if it passed inspection?

The city already will notify you if the house needs to be painted, and gives you a timeframe in which to get it done.
That is why some of the houses on Walnut and S. Main were painted outragious colors a few years back, from what I understand.

Four years ago Council had a local law to take care of this up for a vote. Mr. Ferrando had it put aside and it has never come again.

Now, when another law is being considered, he wants to delay again.

I hope Mr. Bialkowski doesn't let him get away with it.

Lol,Mr Roach obviously doesn't like Mr. Ferrando. Time after time, shots are taken at him.

Tyler,
Truth in posting: I ran against Mr. Ferrando, and six others, four years ago on a 3rd party line (and lost big time).

And, he did kill the "slum lord" law. If it was not worded right, as he said, he had four (4) years to fix it. And, as posted above, he wants to wait on this new one.

Gotcha. I don't know you or this Ferrando guy. Totally unbiased, but I just picked up on it over the last few weeks in certain posts. Nothing bad about it.

but back to the main issue, I'm totally cool on this proposal. This is regarding the safety and welfare of citizens. However, I'm totally against all that weed removal or the matters that don't pertain to the safety of people.

So I guess everyone is ready for government to intrude in their home, dwelling, castle ? Better not have more than five empty boxes in a room because that's a fire hazzard and a fine. Too many extension cords, any electrical outlet near a sink or water supply must have a built in breaker, Pipes are sweating, must be a leak. Failed Fined Jailed !

"Items that could be inspected would include smoke alarms, CO2 detectors, plumbing fixtures, heating, appliances, wiring, safe exits and that the exterior is safe and sanitary".

What about HUD and their approved apartments ? HUD passes but City doesnt ? how is that gonna work ?
Too bad all the eyesore weeds werent smokeable coz we wouldnt have any problem with removal ! LOL.

Gabor - not only am I opposed to the intrusion but I don't see where the city has the resources and the qualified personnel to do this. They are proposing having firemen do the inspections but I don't believe that this is part of their training, not to mention in their contract. Someone is also going to have to keep records on the thousands of tenants, inspections, etc. Is that going to be done by the staff that the City currently has or will they be hiring someone new to do this?

How long can you keep xmas lights up...I notice the pine tree on main street between Bank of America and the Insurance company still has lights on it...Who's going to fine the city...plus the tree looks like its dying..

Beth, why do you seem to be so much against the idea of using the employee’s that we have to do the work that needs to be done? Especially, since we are talking about safely inspections. I know I have already told you that this is done in other communities, why not here?

For those of you who think we need a whole department comprised of professional firefighters, why not look for a value add? Proactive, inspections to keep our homes safe seems like a good use of the department, don’t you think?

Mark, I don't see a law for Christmas lights on the books. Should I work on that before the end of the year for you?

Has anyone looked to see if these "other communities" had to train their fire department to do these inspections? I just don't see where they are qualified to do electrical inspections without some sort of additional training. Also, would we have to re-negotiate the fire department's contract to have these additional duties added? Does the City's existing personnel have the time to do all of the extra duties that will be asked of them? I just don't want to have to hire additional personnel to do the inspections and/or the recordkeeping because if over half of Batavia's properties are rentals, this would be an enormous task.

Beth they just agreed to hired an extra code officer ..

Mark, that's a replacement for an employee who is leaving. Not a new one.

Beth, new tasks require training. City staff will shift focus with the desire of the citizens. From what we on Council see, a large vocal majority of city residents expect to live in a clean, safe city. Council is reacting to that.

So if the citizens say jump off a bridge charlie are you going to do that?

Council members are elected to temper the cries of the masses not to appease them.

Peter, asking for clean, safe neighborhoods is not an outragous demand but, then you know that. Most people would say it is a right.

Why not just enforce existing building codes more agressively?

Are weeds or uncut lawns unclean? or impose a physical danger to people?

We are, the laws were created for a quicker turn around of existing code. City staff wastes too much time chasing problem properties.

Tyler, yes of course.

Sir, can you please explain to me the hazardous conditions that weeds and uncut lawns present to people.

Charlie - I am not trying to be difficult but I am just afraid that Council is going to push this ordinance through with no real plan as to how they will implement it. Who will be doing the training of the fire department and no one has ever answered the question as to whether this is even allowed per the contract? It seems like it would have to be quite in depth if we expect them to be able to inspect plumbing fixtures, heating, appliances, wiring, etc. And all of the record keeping that would be involved? You say "City staff will shift focus with the desire of the citizens". What exactly would they shift their focus from? I'm sure if you asked any one of them, they would say that they already have a full plate and if they had to "shift focus" to these additional tasks, what tasks would no longer be done?

Why don't you go after the contractor who did that horrible work on our "beautiful" City Centre??????Must be the city wants one if the newest buildings in Batavia to look like crap.....it's been like that for years......no, let's go after taxpayers!!!More people travel Main St. and see half painted light poles,weeds between the bricks on the less traveled corners,than people who travel side streets.It's amazing how many for sale signs are up around the city-it's always been a few that will ruin it for everybody.I see quite a few vacant homes(or foreclosure ones) with weeds and poor upkeep.

You can bet dimes to dollars that inspection service will come up at the contract talks with the Fire Department.

When you places like the City of Tonawanda, have a half paid-half volunteer force, things might have to change around here.

It might even prevent a volunteer force in the future.

Beth, your getting ahead of things. Council approved the NIC's request and asked the City Manager and Attorney to come up with a plan for implementation.

Tyler, I am not going to debate societal norms of cleanliness with you. It is what it is.

I love to sit here and debate with ya'll, but I'm going to make society a safer place and go outside. I'm digging up all my lawn. There will no longer be any grass or weeds outside my house because I just found out how unsafe it is. I'm going to bulldoze all of it and put down clay and sand. Throw in some rocks while I'm at it too. Big boulders.

Fair enough Charlie. I'll slow down. I'm just afraid that in the long run this is going to cost money.

I'm going to take the catalytic converter out of my car so all the trees dye too.

Tyler, Just make sure the rocks you use are clean and safe ! Wash them and make sure they are round with no jagged edges !

Nah, it's fun watching little children play on giant rocks with giant jagged edges in them. Certainly, they can't play in grass or weeds because I no longer will have any. Grass and weeds are unsafe so I'm going to turn my front lawn into a stone quarry. Would this violate any eye-sore laws?

I live near a rental property that was not cutting the lawn, had 2 junk cars and because the grass was high, were able to put their household trash about the yard to include used diapers. I would think this is a hazard both fire and rodents. Our town code inspector was alerted to it and now it's being taken care of. So, yes, there are some properties that need this measure.

I know that certain codes are being enforced because my Landlord mowed the lawn, trimmed the hedges and filled a ditch. Usually the lawn gets mowed twice a month and he has done it twice in less than three weeks !

Howard - I agree that people should be required to keep their property up to some minimum standard for the benefit of the whole community. I take pride in my property and have spent a great deal of time and money on making it look nice. I am just concerned that this new proposed ordinance hasn't been very well though out as to how it will be implemented. Many of us can't afford for our tax bills to be any higher and it seems like this could potentially cost a lot of money to implement e.g. negotiating a new contract with the firemen that will be inspecting. And it is my understanding that there are already laws on the books that would cover a lot of these issues (uncut grass, etc.) that are just not being enforced.

Laura, was the high grass causing this problem or was it the diapers themselves? Maybe facilitate it. But why don't you actually address the problem at hand; the diapers? If your scum neighbors were digging wholes and dumping diapers into them would just suggest outlawing shovels?

Well then, they must be enforcing them in your neighborhood because I have seen things elsewhere that need attention badly

How about we start by holding everyone to the same standard? Perhaps instead of celebrating the innovator of the small business incubator on a regular basis and bending over backward to appease their every want, demand they maintain their properties just like Joe Homeowner?

Howard, thats funny. Its kinda true with the complaints. I just feel its a bad time to go hardcore on properties when everyone is having a hard time with money right now. Its no excuse to let properties go to ruin but where the hell was all this concern before the economy tanked? I think thats why people are getting pissed off now. As a renter I am sick and tired of getting inspections and preparing to move, having things fixed getting inspected having to move rent goes up getting inspected having to move......

"those who want to see it disintegrate into a dirty, ratty, crime-infested, poverty-ridden slum. "

You're completely right Howard. That's my goal. When I wake up every morning I think to myself, "How can I make Batavia a dirtier, rattier place with more crime and poverty?"

.......Now I'm obviously joking, but if that was a real question ,I think the best answer would be to grow tall grass. 9-11 terrorist attacks??? Nah, tall grass and weeds seem to me like a more dangerous weapon.

Get off the computer and go mow the lawn now and while your at it pick up the trash and then wash the freakin windows. Tomorrow go by some paint and put a fresh coat on the house. When your done check back for further instructions on how not to live like a scumbag.

Hey Richard, I hope you're addressing me with that comment. I really do. Please clarify yourself.

Pretty clear and simple advise for anyone too lazy to take care of their own home, further instruction will be provided free of charge.

I agree with Beth and Tyler, we need to make sure that we're not getting in too far. We're talking about eliminating the fire department, raising taxes and making major cutbacks across the board. The question has to be asked, can we afford to be more stringent with our enforcement? Again, as Beth asked, will the firemen used for inspection need to be re-contracted? Can the firemen, whom work extremely hard and around the clock already, handle the burdensome task of having home and property inspections to do as well? Will this require the need to hire more city staff?

I think the idea is Socializm. How is it legal to intrude into someones home, in every room, to determine if its safe. Thats why I'm married. My husband and I work together to make our home safe, and our quality of life what it is. We are adults, free, living in the US. If this goes through, it will be interesting to see the results of the inspections of city officials homes, bedrooms, closets, bathrooms ect. Hey we will see how they like their lives and privacy intruded on. Ill buy tickets for that one. I am against this idea for alot of the same reasons stated above. Now their are some exceptions, like the homeowners and renters who are slobs. Then I agree something should be done. But what is being proposed is rediculious. Just for the record, last I checked there were no slums in Batavia....

This is new law is not for private homes, lived in by the owner.

This is for rental units, many of which we all know are run time slums. Renting will require you to meet certain standards, just like many other businesses are required to do.

However, just because you have laws on the books, doesn’t mean they will be enforced. The city staff will do what Council wants them to, so this year, at election time, vote either for people that will enforce the law, or the ones who want things to stay the same.

John with all due respect, we are renters, of 15 years, in the same half a house, and take these new rules as an insult aimed at renters in general. Why only renters?? Thats all Im saying. For some reason, it really ticks me off, that renters are considered 2nd class citizens, slum dwellers if you will. And again, for the repeat code offenders, yes do something, but why not just enforce the existing rules?? Make all home owners, landlords, renters,{Tenants sounds to slummish} participate, so it is fair, for everyone. Otherwise it is favoritizm. Tell me you understand my point of view John. Well enough said. How about I come down and apply for the code enforcement position. Put in a good word for me John :)LOL Ill be sure to do a good job.

It's not the renters, it's the land lords, and I do understand. Your land lord is not the kind they are thinking about, but the law will apply to him also.

The problem has been, and might still be in the future, favoritizm. It's no big secret that some land lords never seem to have the law applied to them. Again, take care who you vote for.

Posted by Howard Owens on July 15, 2009 - 12:37am
Actually, owner-occupied homes would be subject to inspection and certificate of occupancy upon sale of the house.

Howard,
I would go along with that. It would be in the best interest of the homebuyer.

Bea, Buyer beware is the better option. If you aren't smart enough to higher your own home inspector then you shouldn't be buying a home.

So if the city inspects the home before a sale,and the new buyer finds out that the city missed some major code issue,doesn't that open the city to lawsuits..I'm with Peter on this.Why is it the city responsibilty or the taxpayer for that matter to make sure the house you buy is up to par...

And whose responsibility is it to fix violations? Buyer or seller? Is the inspection done prior to the closing or after? The standard real estate contracts that are used in Genesee County, which I believe were drafted by the Genesee County Bar Association, will have to be revised to account for this.

We had our home inspected by a certified home inspector, and then dealt with what he found. Most of the time inspections are highly recommended before buying a house, and if a buyer doesn't get one, I believe it's the buyer's responsibility. The city should not have its nose in home buying.

I agree with Mark. This should be for rental units, not owner occupied private homes.

I'd be interested to know how many other small citys like ours practice this intrusion. John do you know if any other citys and towns around here are doing this? Chelsea's right city officials have their nose in everyones business, trying to make up new laws for what? to grind the axe, and why?? because we challenge them, and ask questions?? "A Well Behaved Woman Seldom Makes History".

"A Well Behaved Woman Seldom Makes History".She belongs in the kitchen...haha

I don't know which, if any, have all the same rules as are being considered.

Councilman Bob Bialkowski went to a NYCOM training and brought back the information.

The reason for the new code is that too many rental properties have become run down and the city has had a poor record of doing anything about it. Bob, Rose Mary Christian and others have had enough. With new code enforcement people and better laws, maybe the slum lords will clean up their units.

Again, there is an election this year, right. You can vote to leave things the way they are, or vote out the old council members and elect ones that will enforce the law.

The people of the City get to make the final decision in November, just a few months from now.

I still don't think we need any new laws on the books - we just need the ones that we have enforced.

I agree with Beth in that, the city drags their feet now not enforcing the existing laws, so what will be any different with new ones? Just another waste of time and money.

Blah Blah-How can this be bad the run down trash dump rental properties are what is being targeted to get slum lords off their lazy butts to clean them up. If you don't own or live in a pile of crap run down rental slum hole you have nothing to worry about.

True Richard unless our tax dollars are going to be used to implement this new law. It goes way farther than getting slumlords to clean up their properties and would require personnel to inspect every rental property and every residence being sold and also personnel to keep the records of the inspections and the names of the tenants for every apartment in Batavia.

And I forgot to mention fees that might be involved for training the firemen to become inspectors if that is even allowed in their contract.

Your right Richard, as I could bitch till the cows come home, but it wont do any good will it. The city is going to do whatever they want reguardless what us little people have to say. They have made a mockery of Batavia,and made us look like a bunch of disfunctional fools.{And For What}? They have attacked our proud Firemen, Local Ambulance, City Police Department, Rights, and Batavia, like it is a slum infested scum city. Sad because, I have always been proud of our city. I guess unless you've lived here all you life, only then would appreciate, the history, generations of families, and the Beautiful city, that is Batavia. Is nothing sacred anymore? So, Let it be written. BLah Blah, Im done. Ill just observe from afar.

Some of our present council members have done nothing to enforce the present code for four years and will not do it in the future.

Reelect them if you like the way things are. But, if you agree there are too many slum units, and want them cleaned up, vote for new people.

This is one of those times you really get to be heard; at the ballot box.

The city of Batavia has made an easy decision for our family. We will be moving out and going somewhere else. We did not get informed when we bought our house that there was a homeowners association that has very specific rules on how our property is so suppose to be kept. We thought this was a city and that as homeowners and adults we would keep our property clean for ourselves and our neighbors. It is the uneasy feeling that this city is moving in on my rights as a US citizen to be left alone in/on my property that has made our decision to leave. Once one thing is put in place then something else will be added and so on until someone files a lawsuit against the city.

Someone said in a previous comment that it wasn't until the economy fell that this law came about? Why is that -all of a sudden? I do understand the absentee landlords being an issue - I do but that needs to affect everyone? People are doing what they can to survive right now. Extra stress because your property isn't perfect isn't helping.

The schools numbers are decreasing in our elementary schools - that says something there too. Batavia should be working to keep young families here and right now it is pushing young families out. A few young families have said aloud they are considering making the move out of here - so it is not just my family. My parents are in the 50+ generation which is the biggest generation and when they are gone Batavia will be a ghostown that sits in the middle of two bigger empty cities. There are no decent jobs, few activites for children, and now more rules to keep the older population happy.

Why don't we do something about the kids hanging out in the middle of streets at midnight screaming vulgar language? Or the weeds on Ellicott St near the new trees and curbs? Maybe the city is overwhelmed by everything that needs to be done? Does the council realize how many kids in Batavia go without food for at least one meal a day and sometimes the weekends? My kids go to school with them and they know. So, why don't we as community work on the more important issues in life like feeding our future generations (we have wonderful groups who offer food but there is never enough food - it takes a lot for a person to go and ask for help). Instead of focusing on ways that in the long run will create more income for Batavia.

Erin, you are a smart cookie!! It is sad that you feel pushed out, by people who think they are above the law. I am interested to see if our rights are being violated. Knowone will be forcing anything down my throat!

I'm not crazy about inspections being done on renters only. If you want to inspect a unit before a new tenant moves in that's fine. If a tenant still lives there I don't like that the City can just invite themselves in for an "inspection". I feel a renter should be treated as a homeowner in the practice of inspections between inhabitants. If there is a safety issue a tenant should be able to go to the inspections department and invite them in to see an infraction. Then set up a time that the landlord or their representative can meet and all three can address the issue and set up a follow up inspection to verify repairs. But to just say since you rent and don't own we can make a home inspection and invite ourselves in every so often and you can't say no, just seems wrong to me. After all, we all know government. If you give them any opening they will expand on it every time. If they are allowed to give occassional inspections to inhabited apartments how long before they want to have inspections on all dwellings? As I said,if it is an inspection only when a home or apartment is empty I have no prblem. But to invade a home or apartment in use is scary.

And John, just for you. I will not support any candidate that says it's OK to inspect any currently occupied home or apartment.

As for kids out at midnight, are you suggesting a curfew? Or maybe the parents should be fined? That would make this slum lord law tame. Can you imagine the outcry?

How can City Council do something about hungry kids? Raise taxes and then offer them free meals? How would that help keep tax payers in the city?

As for weeds on Ellicott, remember how mad people got when the city was paint light posts? What would be the outcry if they were pulling weeds?

When you move, you will find that many of the more urban towns, like Amherst, Tonawanda and Kenmore, have codes also. They might not be the same as ours, but all have some sort of code to protect property owners. Out in the country, with no neighbor nearby, the codes will probably be minimal, so look to move there (taxes are usually lower to).

John - I believe there is already a curfew for kids under 16 although it is selectively enforced.

Again I think a few of you are putting the cart before the horse on this. These were recommendations submitted by a City Committee. Council has asked our City Manager and Attorney to look into and come back with recommendations. The details are far from final.

Charlie,
While they are looking into possibilities and recoomendations, it will be interesting to see how they address the senior complexes.
We are already inspected twice a year by two different entities. Will this be a third?
Also, because of the age and health of the residents, the apartment turnover is much higher than average.
Would these apartments need to be inspected each time a resident passes away or is placed in a nursing home?
Would the owners of the facility be expected to pay a fee for each inspection?

Charlie,
The last time the attorney was going to look into this issue was four years ago. I hope you have better luck this time.