.. TMG ..... Too Much Government ....... I'll bet they projected a number of how much cash will come in due to fines.... you go through a road block and the cop says "I smell cigarettes" then proceeds to search your vehicle for Marlboros.. 2nd offence is a felony? lose custody ? child endangerment ? another feel good law.
So, Erie County wants to make this a law. What happens when someone from Genesee County, travels there and is stopped? Time to shop in Monroe County if you have to go out of our area.
This has nothing to do with Geography. It does have something to do with a child`s right to breath clean air. At least at home, the child can go to a different room? Again,,,, why is there a mandate on Dogs in a closed up car in the summer,,, where as no mandates or laws regarding the QUALITY of AIR that a young child has to endure??
However, I have a strong distaste for the nanny state.
A dog in a car on a hot day is a moment that can be immediately addressed and a dog can be saved by a quick law enforcement response. So to that degree, the situations are not comparable.
It's also not comparable in that we would expect a police response if a child was found left locked in a car. That's an immediate crisis.
It's stupid for a parent to smoke with children in the car. It shows grave disregard for the child's health (and the parent's health). To that degree, the comparison is useful.
However, I'm not sure we can legislate away stupid, however, without becoming China.
Most of the vehicles I see going down the road have windows. I'll go out on a limb here, most of those windows roll down. Now the novice smoker may not know this but you can roll the window down while puffin on your cig and junior as well as skippy can breath fresh air till their hearts content.
There are instances where people will drive with windows rolled up while smoking cigarettes and marijuana joints, this is called clam baking. Maybe this is the kind of driver our honorable legislators are trying to target...... lol carry on it's Saturday night.
Jeff, me too. As a toddler you don`t have much choice. But,,, a home has a larger area to escape that toxic stink, than say a small compact car? John, good question. Maybe that is why we have three forms of Government and a clause referred to as Due Process? Good Points, all. -- dave, have a nice day.
Thomas, the danger of smoking and/or second hand smoke is not the real issue. At what point can the government tell you what you can do in or on your property. What is to stop them, for example, from saying you can not have alcohol in your home if you have young kids. Or say you can not have sugary drinks in the house or buy them for your kids when you go out to eat? Where does this stop?
Jason, to back up what John is saying ... you can say the same thing about smoking in your house with kids or giving them candy and sodas. All are equally bad. There are people who want to lock up parents for letting kids play alone outside.
How much control do we want to give the government over individual lives? Where is the line between retaining individual liberty with all the risks associated with un-regulated lives and Big Brother? Do we just keep letting government encroach on liberty? At what point is it more important to let parents make their own decisions about how much risk is acceptable rather than give the government more and more power?
John, there are laws that we don't agree with. If enough voters do not agree,,, then we have legislators who represent us at that particular level of Government. Laws are mandates approved by legislators, and enforced by members of the Executive Branch of Government There are also Folkways and Morays. Morals and Kinfolk. If your neighbor walks on Red Hot coals, does that mean you have too as well? Is that Morally wrong? Or perhaps legally wrong, a violation of law? Is it a violation of Folkways? Perhaps,,, depending on your beliefs, religion, and safety towards others.... What ever happened to Common Sense and Courtesy?
yep child abuse.... child abuse, if you smoke cigarettes and have children you are abusing your children, oh my god, your children should be in foster care until you finish a government run program, if you can't finish then children will be put up for adoption to a non-smoking gender neutral family. only your government knows the right way to live your life... may I have my trophy ?
I see where you're going with that, Howard, and I appreciate your point of view. As some have previously stated, at least if you're smoking in your house your kids can escape to another room...
David - I didn't say if you smoke you're abusing your children. If you put them in a steel box and smoke a few feet away from them, then you can certainly make the argument that you're abusing them.
Jason, actually, they can't, necessarily, escape. If the parents are smoking in the living room, they eventually have to pass through the living room. Smoke can drift to other rooms. And that idea presupposes children never spend time with their parents doing things like watching TV.
It would be a pretty horrible house for a child to grow up in where they never spent time with their parents.
So I think the slippery slope argument has merit in this case.
FTR, my parents are smokers and they smoked in the car and in the house until my younger brother developed asthma. They continued to smoke in the house, but only in their bathroom...I guess I'm looking at it from my point of view...that unless I hung out in the bathroom with my folks (I didn't) that I wasn't really exposed to the smoke.
I myself was a smoker until just about 2 years ago (New Year's resolution) and I made a point to never smoke around my kids.
I see the slippery slope argument, and I generally favor less government intrusion into our lives, but the welfare of children is an area that I'm more willing to allow some intrusion.
I'm glad you quit smoking. I hate cigarettes. Congrats.
Asthma, like cancer, is not equally distributed among those exposed to smoke (or other carcinogens). Both are the products of random chance.
I'm no fan of parents who smoke around their kids. I think education is the better answer. Education has worked to greatly reduce smoking and will continue to work, I believe.
Everything that the
Everything that the government decides is illegal should be, it's your responsibility to shut up and do as you're told, no questions asked!
Gary, I agree with your
Gary, I agree with your sarcasm. However, a small child in a smoke filled car does not have the same rights as a Dog in a Hot Car???
.. TMG ..... Too Much
.. TMG ..... Too Much Government ....... I'll bet they projected a number of how much cash will come in due to fines.... you go through a road block and the cop says "I smell cigarettes" then proceeds to search your vehicle for Marlboros.. 2nd offence is a felony? lose custody ? child endangerment ? another feel good law.
I can't believe there are
I can't believe there are that many people who think it's ok
So, Erie County wants to make
So, Erie County wants to make this a law. What happens when someone from Genesee County, travels there and is stopped? Time to shop in Monroe County if you have to go out of our area.
This has nothing to do with
This has nothing to do with Geography. It does have something to do with a child`s right to breath clean air. At least at home, the child can go to a different room? Again,,,, why is there a mandate on Dogs in a closed up car in the summer,,, where as no mandates or laws regarding the QUALITY of AIR that a young child has to endure??
Thomas makes a valid point. I
Thomas makes an interesting point. I hadn't thought of it that way.
Children of parents who smoke are at greater risk for Asthma.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23684453
However, I have a strong distaste for the nanny state.
A dog in a car on a hot day is a moment that can be immediately addressed and a dog can be saved by a quick law enforcement response. So to that degree, the situations are not comparable.
It's also not comparable in that we would expect a police response if a child was found left locked in a car. That's an immediate crisis.
It's stupid for a parent to smoke with children in the car. It shows grave disregard for the child's health (and the parent's health). To that degree, the comparison is useful.
However, I'm not sure we can legislate away stupid, however, without becoming China.
https://www.news.com.au/technology/online/big-brother-chinas-chilling-d…
Most of the vehicles I see
Most of the vehicles I see going down the road have windows. I'll go out on a limb here, most of those windows roll down. Now the novice smoker may not know this but you can roll the window down while puffin on your cig and junior as well as skippy can breath fresh air till their hearts content.
There are instances where people will drive with windows rolled up while smoking cigarettes and marijuana joints, this is called clam baking. Maybe this is the kind of driver our honorable legislators are trying to target...... lol carry on it's Saturday night.
Thomas, tell us what is to
Thomas, tell us what is to stop Eire County from banning smoking in their house if there are kids?
sorry dave...it doesnt work
sorry dave...it doesnt work that way....window down or not a passenger still can smell and breathe in that smoke...believe me i know from experience
Jeff, me too. As a toddler
Jeff, me too. As a toddler you don`t have much choice. But,,, a home has a larger area to escape that toxic stink, than say a small compact car? John, good question. Maybe that is why we have three forms of Government and a clause referred to as Due Process? Good Points, all. -- dave, have a nice day.
Thomas, the danger of smoking
Thomas, the danger of smoking and/or second hand smoke is not the real issue. At what point can the government tell you what you can do in or on your property. What is to stop them, for example, from saying you can not have alcohol in your home if you have young kids. Or say you can not have sugary drinks in the house or buy them for your kids when you go out to eat? Where does this stop?
Knowing the dangers of second
Knowing the dangers of second-hand smoke, I don't think it's a stretch to say that smoking with a kid in your car is tantamount to child abuse.
Jason, to back up what John
Jason, to back up what John is saying ... you can say the same thing about smoking in your house with kids or giving them candy and sodas. All are equally bad. There are people who want to lock up parents for letting kids play alone outside.
How much control do we want to give the government over individual lives? Where is the line between retaining individual liberty with all the risks associated with un-regulated lives and Big Brother? Do we just keep letting government encroach on liberty? At what point is it more important to let parents make their own decisions about how much risk is acceptable rather than give the government more and more power?
John, there are laws that we
John, there are laws that we don't agree with. If enough voters do not agree,,, then we have legislators who represent us at that particular level of Government. Laws are mandates approved by legislators, and enforced by members of the Executive Branch of Government There are also Folkways and Morays. Morals and Kinfolk. If your neighbor walks on Red Hot coals, does that mean you have too as well? Is that Morally wrong? Or perhaps legally wrong, a violation of law? Is it a violation of Folkways? Perhaps,,, depending on your beliefs, religion, and safety towards others.... What ever happened to Common Sense and Courtesy?
yep child abuse.... child
yep child abuse.... child abuse, if you smoke cigarettes and have children you are abusing your children, oh my god, your children should be in foster care until you finish a government run program, if you can't finish then children will be put up for adoption to a non-smoking gender neutral family. only your government knows the right way to live your life... may I have my trophy ?
I see where you're going with
I see where you're going with that, Howard, and I appreciate your point of view. As some have previously stated, at least if you're smoking in your house your kids can escape to another room...
David - I didn't say if you
David - I didn't say if you smoke you're abusing your children. If you put them in a steel box and smoke a few feet away from them, then you can certainly make the argument that you're abusing them.
Jason, actually, they can't,
Jason, actually, they can't, necessarily, escape. If the parents are smoking in the living room, they eventually have to pass through the living room. Smoke can drift to other rooms. And that idea presupposes children never spend time with their parents doing things like watching TV.
It would be a pretty horrible house for a child to grow up in where they never spent time with their parents.
So I think the slippery slope argument has merit in this case.
I concede.
I concede.
FTR, my parents are smokers and they smoked in the car and in the house until my younger brother developed asthma. They continued to smoke in the house, but only in their bathroom...I guess I'm looking at it from my point of view...that unless I hung out in the bathroom with my folks (I didn't) that I wasn't really exposed to the smoke.
I myself was a smoker until just about 2 years ago (New Year's resolution) and I made a point to never smoke around my kids.
I see the slippery slope argument, and I generally favor less government intrusion into our lives, but the welfare of children is an area that I'm more willing to allow some intrusion.
I'm glad you quit smoking. I
I'm glad you quit smoking. I hate cigarettes. Congrats.
Asthma, like cancer, is not equally distributed among those exposed to smoke (or other carcinogens). Both are the products of random chance.
I'm no fan of parents who smoke around their kids. I think education is the better answer. Education has worked to greatly reduce smoking and will continue to work, I believe.
I can get behind that.
I can get behind that.
Exactly Howard, Education Not
Exactly Howard, Education Not Legislation.