I agree with Tim there. Also, being here for 18 years of her life I'd say that she's pretty much an American at that point in my book. She didn't get a choice like a lot of these kids so I don't see any issues with her staying here in the US. Her birth country at this point would be alien to her and like Tim said, probably a death sentence.
This girl has special needs and cannot care for herself. I don’t think she even posted that threat, my feeling is some other sick person did it. It would be completely heartless to deport this girl.
Ed- have you ever seen any news footage of this girl? She is childlike. Someone could tell her to write that and she wouldn’t even know what she was writing. She needs to be cared for by her parents. It would be like deporting a toddler.
■ David. To answer your question, no, I've never seen any news footage of her. My comment(s) were made only after reading news articles about this case.
As for her being deported, from what I've read, I don't think that should be done, either.
I would like to think that the Rochester Police Department (and, most likely, the FBI) did a thorough forensic investigation, concerning the origin of the threats - Note, I said threats (plural) because, according to a WHAM13 news article, there was a second threat, the day after the original one, where "someone" posted the following: [ "Round one. I'm going to be a professional school shooter. I'll be there in the morning." ]
You, David, proffer that it's possible she didn't post those threats - that maybe someone else did. Anything's possible. I would have to assume (always a dangerous thing to do) that the investigation led law enforcement back to an electronic device (cell phone/computer/tablet) which traced back to her home. Somehow they linked it to HER. Yes, it's possible that "someone" in her home, besides her, could have posted it. IF that were the case, her home WOULD NOT BE where she should be - because, if people around her are posting threatening messages using her name, she's in danger. If her parents can't watch her 24/7, to make sure nobody's "getting her in trouble", there's a problem.
Perhaps a lifetime ban on using electronic devices is in order.
I certainly don't know what the answer is.
I don't think we need to minimize her conduct to argue against deporting her. From what I heard, she isn't contending that she posted the threats.
The question is, how would society and the government deal with the same set of circumstances with a U.S. born child?
Why should she be treated any differently?
To those who say, "send her home," I say, "she is home." She is as American as your or I. Sending her to Mexico isn't sending her home. It's sending her to a foreign country where she will lack the support and care of her parents.
■ I'm just nitpicking here, Howard.
You wrote, "From what I heard, she isn't contending that she posted the threats".
Agreed. From what I've "read", she never said she didn't post the threat(s). The problem is, from the news descriptions of her, I think it's entirely possible that someone COULD HAVE convinced her that she posted them.
As for her being "as American as you or I", I have to (somewhat) disagree. Well, in my case, anyway. I can't speak for you. As she was born in Mexico, and reportedly never became a legal U.S. citizen, she's a Mexican living in America (unless, of course, DACA "legally" makes her a U.S. citizen). I don't know that much about DACA to emphatically state that for 100%.
Ed, you don't have to be born in the U.S. to be American. You don't have to be a citizen to be an American. You don't even need documentation to be an American. You just need to be an American to be an American. She's lived her all her life. She knows no other country. She's an American. As American as you or me.
I think it's a stretch to think anybody put her up to posting the threats. She testified she knows how to use Facebook and that she created the fake account herself.
Not true, Howard.
Ms. Hernandez has NOT lived here all her life.
Why would you write (and post) an article on October 19th, stating "She was brought here illegally at age 3" (IN BOLD PRINT nonetheless), and yet, on October 23, post the comment, "She's lived her all her life."?
Is that a "fake news" thing, or, a Californian-mindset way of thinking?
I get what you're trying to say, Howard. She's been in this country so long, and, from such a young age, that she knows nothing but "America". I'd even go so far as to say, in her "mind" (and, apparently, in yours, too), she's an American. Saying it, and believing it, doesn't make it true. If it WERE true, then Immigration attorney Hannah Vickner Hough wouldn't have had to file a petition for Ms. Hernandez's asylum in the United States. Americans don't need to petition for asylum in the U.S.
Just because someone has lived here MOST of their lives, and "thinks like an American should" (whatever that means), doesn't make them an American. It makes them a person who "feels" like they're an American.
I realize that you and I aren't going to agree on this subject. That's OK.
Ed, living here from age three is all of her life. How much of your life to you remember from your first, second, or even third year of life?
"Saying it, and believing it, doesn't make it true."
Actually, it does.
Being an American is a state of mind. No law makes you an American. No judge can say, "you're an American" or "you're not an American." He can deport you. He can say you are in violation of the law. He can hold you responsible for your legal status. But he can't ever say truthfully, "You're not an American."
"Ed, living here from age three is all of her life."
No, Howard. Living here from age three is the majority of her life. Not all. NOT ALL!
Journalistic spin doesn't work for me. As I said, I realize that you and I aren't going to agree on this subject. Unless someone comes up with something else I feel I need to address in this thread, I'm done.
Ed, it's important to understand the difference between a rhetorical point for emphasis and factual reporting. In the story, I stated something factual. In a comment, which is argumentation, I made a rhetorical point. For all practical purposes, she's lived her all her life. To argue otherwise is parsing and deliberately missing the point.
Sending her "home" to Mexico
Sending her "home" to Mexico would be a death sentence.
If she makes a 2nd threat like that first one or takes any actions suggesting she might act out in such a way, I could very well change my mind.
I agree with Tim there. Also,
I agree with Tim there. Also, being here for 18 years of her life I'd say that she's pretty much an American at that point in my book. She didn't get a choice like a lot of these kids so I don't see any issues with her staying here in the US. Her birth country at this point would be alien to her and like Tim said, probably a death sentence.
This girl has special needs
This girl has special needs and cannot care for herself. I don’t think she even posted that threat, my feeling is some other sick person did it. It would be completely heartless to deport this girl.
David. You wrote, "I don’t
David. You wrote, "I don’t think she even posted that threat..."
You do realize, I hope, that the previous batavian article, at https://www.thebatavian.com/howard-b-owens/immigration-judge-hears-test…
included the statement, ["She said she doesn't know why she wrote, "I'm coming tomorrow. I'm going to shoot all of you bitches."]
Ed- have you ever seen any
Ed- have you ever seen any news footage of this girl? She is childlike. Someone could tell her to write that and she wouldn’t even know what she was writing. She needs to be cared for by her parents. It would be like deporting a toddler.
■ David. To answer your
■ David. To answer your question, no, I've never seen any news footage of her. My comment(s) were made only after reading news articles about this case.
As for her being deported, from what I've read, I don't think that should be done, either.
I would like to think that the Rochester Police Department (and, most likely, the FBI) did a thorough forensic investigation, concerning the origin of the threats - Note, I said threats (plural) because, according to a WHAM13 news article, there was a second threat, the day after the original one, where "someone" posted the following: [ "Round one. I'm going to be a professional school shooter. I'll be there in the morning." ]
You, David, proffer that it's possible she didn't post those threats - that maybe someone else did. Anything's possible. I would have to assume (always a dangerous thing to do) that the investigation led law enforcement back to an electronic device (cell phone/computer/tablet) which traced back to her home. Somehow they linked it to HER. Yes, it's possible that "someone" in her home, besides her, could have posted it. IF that were the case, her home WOULD NOT BE where she should be - because, if people around her are posting threatening messages using her name, she's in danger. If her parents can't watch her 24/7, to make sure nobody's "getting her in trouble", there's a problem.
Perhaps a lifetime ban on using electronic devices is in order.
I certainly don't know what the answer is.
I don't think we need to
I don't think we need to minimize her conduct to argue against deporting her. From what I heard, she isn't contending that she posted the threats.
The question is, how would society and the government deal with the same set of circumstances with a U.S. born child?
Why should she be treated any differently?
To those who say, "send her home," I say, "she is home." She is as American as your or I. Sending her to Mexico isn't sending her home. It's sending her to a foreign country where she will lack the support and care of her parents.
■ I'm just nitpicking here,
■ I'm just nitpicking here, Howard.
You wrote, "From what I heard, she isn't contending that she posted the threats".
Agreed. From what I've "read", she never said she didn't post the threat(s). The problem is, from the news descriptions of her, I think it's entirely possible that someone COULD HAVE convinced her that she posted them.
As for her being "as American as you or I", I have to (somewhat) disagree. Well, in my case, anyway. I can't speak for you. As she was born in Mexico, and reportedly never became a legal U.S. citizen, she's a Mexican living in America (unless, of course, DACA "legally" makes her a U.S. citizen). I don't know that much about DACA to emphatically state that for 100%.
Ed, This pretty much sims it
Ed, this pretty much sums up DACA in the first paragraph:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deferred_Action_for_Childhood_Arrivals#Cr…
Ed, you don't have to be born
Ed, you don't have to be born in the U.S. to be American. You don't have to be a citizen to be an American. You don't even need documentation to be an American. You just need to be an American to be an American. She's lived her all her life. She knows no other country. She's an American. As American as you or me.
I think it's a stretch to think anybody put her up to posting the threats. She testified she knows how to use Facebook and that she created the fake account herself.
Howard, first paragraph #10
Howard, first paragraph #10 is well said.... hope you don't mind me sharing it in conversation....
Thank you. That's fine.
Thank you. That's fine.
Not true, Howard.
Not true, Howard.
Ms. Hernandez has NOT lived here all her life.
Why would you write (and post) an article on October 19th, stating "She was brought here illegally at age 3" (IN BOLD PRINT nonetheless), and yet, on October 23, post the comment, "She's lived her all her life."?
Is that a "fake news" thing, or, a Californian-mindset way of thinking?
I get what you're trying to say, Howard. She's been in this country so long, and, from such a young age, that she knows nothing but "America". I'd even go so far as to say, in her "mind" (and, apparently, in yours, too), she's an American. Saying it, and believing it, doesn't make it true. If it WERE true, then Immigration attorney Hannah Vickner Hough wouldn't have had to file a petition for Ms. Hernandez's asylum in the United States. Americans don't need to petition for asylum in the U.S.
Just because someone has lived here MOST of their lives, and "thinks like an American should" (whatever that means), doesn't make them an American. It makes them a person who "feels" like they're an American.
I realize that you and I aren't going to agree on this subject. That's OK.
Ed, living here from age
Ed, living here from age three is all of her life. How much of your life to you remember from your first, second, or even third year of life?
"Saying it, and believing it, doesn't make it true."
Actually, it does.
Being an American is a state of mind. No law makes you an American. No judge can say, "you're an American" or "you're not an American." He can deport you. He can say you are in violation of the law. He can hold you responsible for your legal status. But he can't ever say truthfully, "You're not an American."
"Ed, living here from age
"Ed, living here from age three is all of her life."
No, Howard. Living here from age three is the majority of her life. Not all. NOT ALL!
Journalistic spin doesn't work for me. As I said, I realize that you and I aren't going to agree on this subject. Unless someone comes up with something else I feel I need to address in this thread, I'm done.
Gee, and I thought majority
Gee, and I thought majority meant the greater number :/
Brian. Keep thinking like
Brian. Keep thinking like that and you'll be fine.
If you feel you're having trouble, there's always this: https://www.learningrx.com/reading-comprehension-help-for-adults/
Ed, it's important to
Ed, it's important to understand the difference between a rhetorical point for emphasis and factual reporting. In the story, I stated something factual. In a comment, which is argumentation, I made a rhetorical point. For all practical purposes, she's lived her all her life. To argue otherwise is parsing and deliberately missing the point.