Lang family announces time and date for protest against bath salts

As much as I am against this bath salts, synthetic marijuana, etc., I would not support this family. It's not that they don't have a "good cause" in mind, it's because they are so 2-faced. It was okay when the family shop did it. Now it's another shop owner's fault when someone they know consumes it? No one has taken PERSONAL responsibility in this case. I do fully support removing this substance from shelves, etc. Any shop owner selling it shows absolutely no ethics or morals. Sorry, Lang family, but you fall within that category. I am sorry for the trouble the youth in your family is having, but look in the mirror first. "People in glass houses..."

Mr. Molino -
I so support an appropriate neighborhood response to this bath salt situation. Again, my problem is that the Lang family has made this a personal vendetta against a co store owner, someone they've been trying to do dirty since before they moved in. It's the hypocrisy that bothers me. I hope the persons in the Lang family (or any and all families) heal from these situations and suffer no long term affects from the drug.

never mind

Lisa so you will sacrifice supporting a cause because of the people who initiated it? Seems to me a little like cutting your nose off to spite your face. Unless I am mistaken you will instead allow the public to percieve this bath salts issue as not nearly as important as the people who initiatedthe protest against it? I guess I just dont understand that prioritization. Lets hope she doesnt start an awareness campaign against locking dogs in vehicles as because of who she is you would rather let that slide than to participate in anything that particular family does.

I refuse to support the protest. Bath Salts should be legal for anyone to attain.

Now if the protest was against tattoo and head shops that reduce property values, I am in.

And if you own one, good for you for owning a business, but can you do it elsewhere? People generally look poorly upon areas with many tattoo and head shops for a reason.

I fully support the cause.
I do NOT support the HYPORICY of the family.
I also do not wish this family harm of any kind.
Let's put YOU in a hot car with the window rolled up!

Being somewhat of a rebel rouser, If I owned 420, I would have some sort of promotional activities scheduled for the hours of the protest.
Maybe use a rational human as an experiment, using a moderate amount of spice or salts and let those who oppose the right of the owners to make a living, witness the behavior of the experimental subject before and after, and then pass judgement.
Even the police have stated, many who are having problems with salt or spice use are no strangers to law enforcement. And surprise, surprise, it is a mirror image with alcohol abuse.

My lord. The comparison of bath salts with alcohol AGAIN!! They are not even in the league... As stated time and time again. Alcohol is LEGAL and does NOT have a negative result if used the way it is meant to be used. Have you read or heard anything about a fun, relaxing time with some friends and bath salts. You haven't because they're aren't any. These chemicals are made with one purpose. To screw your friggin head up. There is no such thing as coming home from a long, hot day at work and chilling with an ice cold bath salt.

Some alcohol is even good for you. The antioxidants in red wine raise good cholesterol and protect artery damage. I didn't read anything lately about "amped" preventing heart disease. I have, however read a lot about seizures, paranoia, erratic behavior and bath salt related deaths. So let's say we stop comparing the two?

And, tattoo shops and head shops bringing down property values? Low income housing, dilapidated homes, poor landscaping, unkempt property and location bring down property values. Asking people to move their business somewhere else because some frown upon it... Pretentious and borderline racist. People that decorate their bodies are so much of an eyesore that they should be pushed out of town? I think I just threw up in my mouth.

Brett, could not disagree with you more, alcohol has hundreds times the colateral damage than anyhing that is sold legally. Have you any experience living in an alcoholic household? , have you ever lost a family member due to alcohol abuse? Have you ever watched an alcoholic drink themelves to death? Your danm right there is no comparision, alcohol is the most abused drug on the planet.

Frank,
What part of alcohol use vs abuse did you miss?
You are talking about the misuse/abuse of alcohol. Brett is talking about the normal use that millions have without any of the problems you had.

John, what is alcohols intended purpose? One mans moderation is another mans disease.
What is the desired effect after consuming alcohol? to feel miserable, or to feel relaxad. More than likely, it is that euphoric feeling that begins soon after the alcohol enters the bloodstream.
It is similiar to taking a hit off the old bong, with the exception being the bong hit works much faster.
John, whatever drug you choose, there will always be use and abuse, they go hand in hand.Has it occurerd to anyone that, just maybe, you are trying to protect your drug of choice while condemning someone else.

Alcohol is just slower, but just as lethal, it is the sole responsibility of the user to either take a drink,
or smoke spice, or snort salts, the accountability is on the user, if one can't handle alcohol, don't use it.
Howard, would you describe drunk driving as irrational behavior?
Have you talked to everyone who uses salts or spice, or do you just show up for the negative stories.
I wouldn't put pot in the same catagory as alcohol, one is lethal.

I have one last point on this story, who is responsible if some jackass goes to 420, buys 2 vials of amped, snorts them both in less than 24 hours, jumps out his window onto the roof and shouts profanities to all in earshot. The following weekend, joe blow waltzes into the liquor store and buys a fifth of JD, blow goes home and consumes the entire bottle in a record 5 hours. HE JUMPS OUT HIS WINDOW SCREAMING PROFANTIES, MISSES THE ROOF,AND LANDS AT A LAW OFFICERS FEET!!!! Ain't that special, the same behavior committed on 2 different drugs.

Frank - Because alcohol is a substance that requires a great deal of consumption to reach that level of mania, and it's regulated to the point that much of the danger is removed from consuming a moderate amount. Bath salts are not the same. These are not meant for human consumption and underhanded businesses are selling them in an indirect marketing scheme in that way. Although this issue is two fold, moral and security oriented, I agree that we don't need the morality police, but we do need to ensure public safety. These substances are ruining lives at an enormous cost, and along with the human tragedy to the user comes the danger it presents to the rest of the community. It's ridiculous to equate the two.

Dan, these salts are potent, not like the 8 or 9 lines of coke people were doing back in the 70's. One line of amped will get the same result as 5 lines of powder cocaine, so if you want to disquise drug use with words like moderation, so be it, but it is the same animal, it is a 2 way street. And to say alcohol needs a great deal of consumption is laughable.
As a recovering alcoholic, I see the pro alcohol argument like this, those who use the drug alcohol will fight you to the death to protect and defend their drug of choice.
Every thing we do in our lives revolves around our personal choices,when we screw up, we can look in the mirror to place blame.
I am very tempted to walk into 420, purchase some salts, and snort myself a moderate amount, and wait for nothing to happen to me, with the exception of the euphoria, similiar to an alcohol buzz.
Who pays for all the patrols, checkpoints, underage drinking arrests at Darien lake, or do you think there is no increased costs associated with said activities?
Bottom line, you are picking one drug over another, and that right should be left up to the individual, not me, not you, and certainly not the govt.
One other question Dan, what tragedies have been directy associated with salt use, I would be typing
for eternity if we were discussing alcohol related tragedies.
Drug abuse includes alcohol .

Alcohol, guns, drugs, screwdrivers, hammers,power tools, garden eqpt, lawm mowers, spray paint,computer duster, cold remedies, should all be banned becuase a few idiots are not smart enough to use these products ? ?..

Instead of perpetuating the deliberately misleading brand-name, bath salts; these drugs should be called what they are: meth substitutes. And they should not be confused with synthetic cannabinoids, a whole different chemistry, intended to be smoked- not inhaled.

Epsom Salt is the common name for magnesium sulphate. 3,4-Methylenedioxypyrovalerone (MDPV) is the active ingredient in the recreational drug known as 'bath salts.' Magnesium sulphate has no known psychoactive effects, although over ingestion would lead to magnesium intoxication (dizziness and nausea). The two chemicals are unrelated. MDPV is a synthetic cathinone.

Cathinone is a naturally occurring beta-ketone amphetamine analogue found in the leaves of the 'Khat' Catha edulis plant. Synthetic cathinones are derivatives- a phenethylamine core with a methyl group attached to the alpha carbon along with additional substitutions. Examples of amphetamines are methamphetamine, ephedrine, cathinone, MDMA ("Ecstasy"), and DOM ("STP").

Naturally occurring amphetamine has been employed medicinally since antiquity. Synthetic amphetamines were first produced in the late 1800s. They were commonly used in the 1930s as decongestants for treatment of colds and eventually became popular as psychoactive agents. Their effect on the central nervous system is varied, primarily psychoanaleptic (mental stimulation), hallucinogenic and empathogenic (sense of emotional closeness to others).

Alcohol is a depressant. Despite its initial euphoria and eventual loss of inhibition, it makes the imbiber slurred, stumbling and stupid. ...Buzz-wise, opposite end of the spectrum from amphetamine.

Ok Frank when you do go into 420 and buy the bath salts and snort them, then the police and fire dept have to remove you from the roof of Wiard Plow then what. We get to tell you we told you so, its plain and simple alcohol, guns, screwdrivers, hammers, powertools etc, all can be used responsibly. But bath salts arent of any use except as a once legal substitute for illegal drugs. Now the Govt has made them illegal too. as far as responsibility, you argument is stupid, if your alcoholic and you drink then your responsible for the consequences, If your blind, and you buy a gun and shoot it then your responsible for the consequences, If you have an amuptated right hand and have a prostetic and buy a hammer and destroy your other hand trying to drive a nail your responsible. Starting to see a pattern? With he former legal status of bath salts, it was too easy for kids and gullible adults to get, and it being legal people thought it was safe. Now its being regulated.

Kyle, how large of a bet would you care to wager on your last post? I'm unclear on what you are calling stupid in my argument ?

The stupidity in your argument is that alcohol is in any way compared to bath salts.

Oh and historical fact you might be interested in, if it wasnt for alcohol and its use in moderation we wouldnt be here today. Mankind has had alcohol for millenia, and in the major civilizations throughout history it was used for consumption in lieu of water. Because it is a sterile liquid and cant contain harmful microbes that can cause epidemics of dysentery and other digestive maladies that were fatal before medical technology caught up. Thats why you find alcoholic drinks in every culture, made from cactus, honey, milk, wheat, corn, barley, rice and plums just to name a few sources.

By the way I'm not gonna bet anything because I dont want you to then blame me for such a stupid action as taking bath salts just to see if they are as bad as people say, just because I made a wager.

You Guys there is nothing worse than trying to argue with a recovering alcoholic!! Frank now you want to bet?? Just trading off one addiction for another. Still a ways to go for you Frank.

Anyone care to join me for some Jameson's Black Barrel on the rocks? There are 2 uncorked bottles in my kitchen cupboard. I might even have some cabbage (wink wink) put away for special occasions. I have to warn you, though, I can stop at 2 shots on the rocks and 2 pulls from the cabbage patch so I'm not going to turn into a stumbling idiot for your entertainment. I might turn into a mumbling idiot for your entertainment, but never stumbling. I have to be able to mow the lawn without the neighbors getting too worried. Oh...and NO BATH SALTS ALLOWED. Only the "safe" stuff for me :-p

Edit: If you bring bath salts, I'm chaining you to a tree before you do them for MY entertainment!

Mike you are saying I will become addicted after one use, and after 11+ years of sobriety Mike, I'm pretty much where I want to be.
Actually, there is nothing worse than arguing with a practicing addict.
And Kyle, when I need to blame someone for my own actions, I just find a mirror.

One day at a time Frank!!

So Doug, are you saying you know your limitations? That despite any other influence, you take it upon yourself
to regulate drug intake, eliminating the need for the closet police.
I believe this approach, and more education are needed, not more law.

I don't believe that the law has the right to tell people what they can or cannot ingest, smoke, shoot up, snort, eat...etc. It's none of their business what people do to their self.

I was listening to WBZ radio out of Boston this morning (maybe it was yesterday morning) and they were talking about legalizing medical marijuana and other things like the right to end your own life if you're terminally ill. One woman called in and said she would not agree to legalization of marijuana for any reason, nor would she agree to legalize assisted suicide for the terminally ill. Her decisions were based on her own Christian morality so she thinks everyone else should be bound to the same rules of her belief system.

My point is, I'm so tired of other people thinking that they can legislate morality to ANYONE. You're correct that I know my limits and can police myself just fine. I don't need a nanny state entity or a bible thumper telling me what is best for me.

If I want my doctor to assist me in my own end of life decisions, why should it be up to anyone else to say otherwise? If someone else doesn't believe in it, fine for them, but for me, it should be my own decision.

I find it to be the same way with drugs. If I want to sit in my hot tub, sip some fine spirits, ingest a little cabbage and mind my own business, what right does someone else have to tell me that I cannot do that? I go to work every day, I pay my taxes, my neighbors and family trust me without pause.

I don't want the actions of a few to adversely affect the freedoms of the majority. This is supposed to be a country where we're free to decide what is best for our self. We get to decide what we want to do for a living, what church to go to, what god/gods to believe in, what NOT to believe in, whether we have guns in the house or not, what kind of car we want to drive..etc.Yet we're not free to decide if we want to "partake" or not and to accept the responsibility for it? It sure doesn't sound right to me. It sounds more like a control issue for the kind of people who want to tell responsible people how to live their life and believe they have the right to do so.

Some people may want to make the argument that if a person ingests any kind of drug for pleasure only, they're being irresponsible. I'm willing to make a bet that most people agree that it's not always entirely true.

With all that being said, it's my body and my life. I accept responsibility for everything I've done to it and for it over the decades. I'm also a responsible person and I meet every one of my obligations head on. So, the answer to your question is yes, I have the wherewithal to take care of myself without the closet police getting involved. CHEERS!

You got it Mike, today is the only day that matters in recovery

Well said Doug, most people can police themselves with how much alcohol they consume. BTW Doug, Jameson sounds good and have you tried the new Guinness Black Lager? However, some of us seem to forget one thing about alcohol. It is made from natural ingredients consumable by the human body. Amazing Frank I know! Bath Salts on the other hand are not meant for human consumption and are chemically made. Frank, you cannot compare alcohol and bath salts; they are too different and nowhere near the same. You are correct about one thing. When someone abuses either alcohol or bath salts, they usually cause collateral damage. Then again you are comparing people that abuse!

Lisa, I agree with you on the Lang Family but, again this protest is not about the Lang Family. It is about getting bath salts remove from the market and making sure the public is aware of the dangers of bath salts.

John, Native Americans do not have the enzymes to handle alcohol in their bodies, alcohol was introduced to the natives by the white man. So any talk about natural makes no sense to me.
Bottom line, people drink alcohol for a reason, most likely to catch a buzz, people inhale spray paint, most likely to catch a buzz, people inhale computer duster, most likely to catch a buzz, people drink bleach, most likey to cover marijuana use on a toxie.
Again I will ask, what is alcohols intended purpose?
Have all spice and salt users been interviewed, and has it been determined that any amt. ingested will produce negative results?
So because alcohol is legal,which by the way, so is everything being sold at the 420, its use by those who should never even consider using a mind altering drug is ok as long as they are 21 or older, but if someone snorts salt, who by the way is mentally competent to make that decision, is wrong, or abusive.Give me a break, the problem right now is overblown media coverage, leave the owners of the 420 alone, they are making a living, the same way the liqour store owner is.
P.T.Barnum said it best, theres a sucker born every minute, is that his fault?
You can't remove every danger from the face of the earth, but you can teach people to know of the danger. I have no problem with that.
The very reason you wont find a group of recovering alcoholics protesting at the liqour store is simple, they have accepted their own actions, their own responsibility, no one put a gun to their head and forced alcohol on them, enough said, I'm tired of this hypocritical defense of alcohol, or should we say, support for the use or abuse of the drug, alcohol.

Really? A protest against bath salts? Just don't buy them. I thought protests were meant to speak out against conditions being forced upon the unwilling public by governing groups. It doesn't seem to make much sense to protest something that has to be sold, bought and then used by individuals. As far as the dangers of bath salts, I don't see how it can be much worse than alcohol, which is responsible for more deaths annually than any other drug. I suppose the great shame in alcohol related deaths is that it is often the unsuspecting sober person that ends up paying the price for the stupidity of the drinker. Maybe if the user was the only person affected, the problem would solve itself.

Sara - Protests are made to speak out about an injustice, that does not just apply to the government. That may be one of the most frightening and warped views of free speech that I have ever heard.

Dan, you must lead a very sheltered life.
Who are you talking to??
Jason, Exactly!!!!.

I guess this is like ; Drug-VS-Drug, there can be no winner, maybe a ban on idiots would solve all the problems, once proven a threat to themselves or others, a variety of conditions apply, which would include "no
use/abuse of any substance", naturally occuring, or man made synthetic drug shall be consumed by the idiot
identified herein as Stupid ??????

I find it funny that the Lang family is acting this way now when in fact that her son has been selling drugs for years in Bataiva. It sounds like it is more of a way to avoid the fact that her son is as much a "Criminal" as they are portraying this 4:20 emporium . I even seen pictures the Laughing Budda posted on FaceBook one time which showed pictures of what he was selling and bath salts was in it.How many times can you bail your(adult) child out of trouble? He knew what he was taking wasn't good for him no one forced him to buy it and ingest it. I think it is great to want to make people aware of the dangers but do it for the right reason and in the right way.

Frank if you want to play the enzymes game here is one for you, after a human becomes an adult their body loses the ability to break down dairy. The issue here is bath salts aka; Blizzard, Blue Silk, Charge+, Ivory Snow, Ivory Wave, Ocean Burst, Pure Ivory, Purple Wave, Snow Leopard, Stardust, Vanilla Sky, White Dove, White Knight, White Lightning, etc.... are chemically made. They have no benefitical use and is a synthetic, stimulant powder product that contains amphetamine-like chemicals, including mephedrone, which may have a high risk for overdose. Bath salts will always carry the risk of stroke, heart attack and sudden death. It may be legal in some states, but so is rat poison, and you probably wouldn't want to ingest that either. You want to know benefits of alcohol so here you are Frank as follows;

• Significance
• Found in both beer and wine, polyphenols, antioxidant phytochemicals that occur naturally in plants, have been shown to reduce "bad" LDL cholesterol, reduce the risk of heart disease and certain cancers and prevent free radicals from causing cell damage. Studies have show that similar levels of polyphenols are found in both red wine and beer, which is about four or five times the amount found in white wine.
Blood Pressure
• Blood vessels become dilated after one drink, which increases blood flow and reduces stress on the heart. The key is stopping at just one to avoid adding stress to the heart.
•
Bones
• Alcohol increases estrogen and other hormones needed for strong bones. Dark beer contains silicon, which helps with the absorption of calcium and other minerals to increase bone density and lower the risk of developing osteoporosis.
Diabetes
• A glass of beer or wine can also reduce the chance of developing Type 2 diabetes by improving how your body responds to insulin.
Considerations
• A 5-oz. glass of wine or 12 oz. of beer (one bottle) is equal to one drink. One drink per day for women, two for men, is considered a safe and beneficial amount. OH FRANK, as you have stated: Excessive drinking will produce negative health effects.

Read more: What Are the Health Benefits of Beer & Wine? | eHow.com http://www.ehow.com/facts_5297145_health-benefits-beer-wine.html#ixzz20…

A lot of us agree with your point. Just as I find MRS Lang's blame game just another poor attempt to point fingers rather than, take blame for one's actions. I am against the legalize sale of bath salts (not the one ladies can add to their baths) and this protest should not be about the Lang Family. It should be about the sale of a (bath salts) poison that can be easily obtained and consumed by our children.

John, debating the drug issue is a good cause, it puts the spotlight on the problem, and it promotes awareness.
THANK YOU HOWARD, AND YOUR STAFF FOR PROVIDING THIS FORUM.
John, I will ask this question again, What is alcohols intended purpose? Any health benefit is overshadowed by the havoc it can wreak on users/abusers. I see alcohol related arrests are tenfold that of any other drug.
So John, if it is so f%$#ing good for us, why would you need to be 21 years of age to purchase such a healthy substance?
If "children" are getting a hold of these products, someone else is breaking the law. Our children are also getting into alcohol as well, Darien Lake ring any bells?.

Aside from being legal and the fact that its consumption has been and remains pervasive in many cultures for eons, alcohol is toxic. Pregnant women are advised to abstain from drinking it. Consumed to excess it can cause acute respiratory failure or death. The toxic effect of alcohol is due mainly to two chemicals produced when alcohol is metabolized: acetyldehyde and acetic acid. How we get drunk is complex; ethanol attaches to glutamate receptors in the brain’s neural circuitry. The chemicals that transmit neuro-signals are outmoded by ethanol molecules. This disrupts the flow of signals and generally slows the whole brain down. Some neurotransmitter systems are enhanced by alcohol: GABAA, glycine, serotonin, nicotinic acetylcholine receptors. Others are inhibited: NMDA, dihydropyridine-sensitive L-type and G-protein-activated inwardly rectifying K+ channels.

Arguing that one recreational chemical is safer or less toxic than another is specious. Ultimately the comparisons are of one brain chemistry altering substance to another. The whole 'but it's natural' argument is equally preposterous. The Death Cap Mushroom is natural, and its psychoactive qualities well known. Its toxins can result in fatal liver shut-down in 72 hours. Individual use and personal health determine how safe any chemical is.

From the mouth of the bartender, "Name your poison?"

Once again Frank you are arguing abusers. A beer, a glass of wine, a shot of Jameson, etc... is a beveage that goes well with one's meal or just to enjoy. Why do we have laws requiring you need to be 21. Hmmm, because, our society does not teach respect and we do not hold ourself truly accountable for our actions. Our society likes to point blame everywhere else. It amazes me that Germany allows their youth to consume as long as they are tall enough to reach the bar. Why is that you may ask. My "OPINION" is this, they teach respect and they are held "ACCOUNTABLE FOR THEIR ACTIONS!"

Just because, you see in your words tenfold more alcoholic related arrest does not mean it's a fact. That is a little over the top. Frank when I consume alcohol it is not for the purpose of getting a BUZZ. It is simply to enjoy a beverage that I like. In the past 4 months, I have probably consumed maybe a 12 pack of Guinness. BTW, was given to pregeant women in Ireland back in the day, because of the large amount of iron it contain. Now medical science has given us the the iron pill.

Have I consumed more than two beers in any evening? Heck yeah, ST Patty's Day for sure. It is a traditions with some of my family and friends (Irish Side). We hire a limo and visit as many Irish Pubs as possible to comsume as much Guinness and Corn Beef and Gabbage we desire. No not for the "Buzz" but, to have a great time with family and friends.

People who tend to abuse alcohol are weak will and have no control of themself.

Finish my statement C.M., Natural and CONSUMABLE BY HUMANS! Death Cap Mushrooms are not meant for human consumption just like other natural plants etc.... I did not state, if it is natural it is good for human consumption. I did state that it is made from natural ingredients and consumable by humans. Bath Salts is a chemically made product, not meant for human consumption. People consume bath salts knowing this. It is about the high for them, it has no other purpose or benefit to it use. Look at marijuana for example is natural, is it meant for human consumption? Some can argue either way but, it does have proven medical uses.

Great stuff CM. I just hope the "children" don't read the Batavian, they may inadvertantly think alcohol is actually good for them. Can't wait to see the blotter tomorrow, how many underage alcohol users/
abusers will get busted at Iron Maiden tonight.
John, you never answered my question, thats cool though, cause I already know the answer.
But you still seem to be saying that when one consumes the drug alcohol, it would be strickly medicinal?/Dietary Supplement?/ and is not used for any other purpose, therefore, any other use would constitute misuse? Even catching a buzz??

Frank your question was answered. Open your eyes man! You asked what is alcohol's intended purpose? It cannot be explained any simplier. It is beverage to enjoy with a meal, some may use it for proven health benefits or simply love the taste of frosty cold beer. It is no different than consuming a glass of soda, milk, juice or water with a meal. Which by the way if you consume too much of the foremention beverages, it can be bad for your health. At least it has some health benefits Frank. Name me a proven health benefit of the drug Bath Salt. Once again not everyone that consumes alcohol is abuser. If, you look at alcoholic related arrest you have a large amount of repeat offenders. Once again you focus on users/abusers of alcohol. Again you fail to see the differences between a product that is safe to consume, to a product that is not safe to consume. Too much of again think can cause health issues Frank.

Underage users is our inability and failure to teach respect and the dangers that too much alcohol presents. It is another example of our society not taking "ACCOUNTABILITY OF OUR ACTIONS!" It's the Blame Game! Heck Frank, I was given alcohol at the age of 5 by my Grandpa. Guess what Frank? I am not an alcoholic. I can stop at one or decided I do not want a beer or any other alcoholic beverage. Drinking a alcoholic beverage does not make one an abuser. It is one's inability to know when to stop or their inability to stop. Weak mind = weak will and control. Once again some people blame their own inabilities on something rather than themself.

BTW Frank, I agree debating is good. I think we can agree on that abusing drugs is a negative issue. I have loss a Aunt, several friends and my first true love to drunken drivers. Alcoholism is an evil addiction.

John, sorry that you surmised I had your statement in mind when I alluded to 'natural.' Natural is a very common assertion by those arguing pro certain things. Many of the drugs presumed to be something other than natural derive from or are chemically similar to naturally occurring chemicals. Paregoric, Heroin, Methadone and Morphine are manufactured from opium. All have medical applications. LSD is synthesized from the rye fungus known as ergot. Ergot was very likely used in ritual drinks by Iron Age Europeans. LSD was originally synthesized to be used as an analeptic, respiratory and circulatory stimulant. It was supposed to treat the common cold!

Cocaine was used as a dental anesthetic in the 1880s. Procaine, Novocain, Benzocaine and Xylocaine are synthetics, chemically unrelated to Cocaine that where developed out of concern for the addictive properties of cocaine.

The amphetamine derivatives we have been discussing are recent derivatives of the Ephedra (Ma-Huang) and the Khat plants though extracts have been used in Asian pharmacopeia for centuries. The first western synthesis of amphetamine was accomplished in Germany in 1887. In the 1930s it was introduced as Benzedrine and used in bronchial inhalers. During WW II both the Wehrmacht and Allied Air Forces used (Pervitin) methamphetamine (sometimes with a cocaine derivative) to keep pilots alert. RAF pilots boast that "Methedrine won the Battle of Britain."

The modern medical establishment has habitually looked the other way when plant-based drugs are concerned. The AMA for decades preferred getting its drugs from laboratories. There is a popular myth that the Amazon fauna could yield the cures for all ailments. Certainly the prehistoric cultures experimented with all manner of plants, and if they had been literate might have passed on a vast knowledge. Instead we retain the slightest inkling of what they knew from experience - mostly forgotten or demonized by our fanatic ancestors. The reason we know that the Death Cap Mushroom has psychoactive properties, native Americans and others have used it. The reason we regard it as poison, how to prepare it isn't common knowledge; for the most part no one is about to put it in spaghetti sauce or a fresh salad.

These chemicals we regard as bad, amphetamine derivatives intended for getting high, are not new- only new to us. The ethical question pertains to untrained people selling them to other untrained people for the lame purpose of getting buzzed. Obviously the plants around us do not come with an instruction manual. What is known of them- whether as food preparation, medical application or ritual use is derived from experience. The Ephedra and Khat plants are native to Asia. Why expect some crank-seeker from Genesee County to possess an understanding of Chinese pharmacology?! Ten years ago we were in an uproar because people were using these same extracts for weight loss. Ephedrine does have a legitimate application. Though Ephedra is not always the source (sometimes it is produced from yeast fermentation) Pseudo-ephedrine has long been used for bronchial relief. However, since Ephedrine is readily reducible to methamphetamine it was removed from cough medicine, most of the OTC cough medicines are no longer worth a damn.

...But we are talking about two different things: plant-based chemicals used for medicinal purposes and plant based chemicals snorted up someone's nose!

Well C.M. I did assume that you were referring to my statement, due to I seem to be the only comment above that used "Natural” in their statement. Regardless of the word natural being a common assertion. Since, your statement, "The whole 'but its natural' argument is equally preposterous." I concluded that, it was in reference to my statement about alcohol ingredients being natural and safe for human consumption. I am not arguing the fact alcohol has some negative effects. We have used drugs in the past and discovered the dangers involved. However, alcohol has been around how long? Ancient times? It comes down to alcohol no matter how you feel about it, is safe to consume in moderation. Bath Salts are not only unsafe for human consumption but, has no beneficial use at all plus, there is no safe amount to consume. So, what I will do for you is refrain from using natural and use safe for human consumption.

Oh CM remember the early days of have a Coke and a smile. Coca Cola contained at one time "Cocaine." Hench their name. Now they use artifical sweetners which is also bad for the body.

I think that any argument of which is more of a dangerous drug, alcohol, marijuana, cocaine, bathsalts etc. is a massive waste of time. We as adults, all understand the dangers and consequences of each. I actually setup an account here to say my piece and due to the wait period my views may have altered a bit. At first (when i realized bathsalts were being sold here) I was outraged. I mean I live in the area and have two young children who I feel shouldnt be subject to that type of a person or that type of persons behavior. I did have the property value argument at first but lets be realistic, home values around here have been nosediving for some time now. Do I think it helps? Absolutely not. Do I think it creates a certain abount of hinderance? Absolutely. Honestly, who wants to move their family into a neighborhood that was at one time regarded as "quiet", into a small area with increased traffic, noise and obvious drug use? Not me. Now, as a few days have passed here is what changed, I still dont want to subject my kids to the aforementioned concerns. However, if its not on my corner its on yours and if its not there its on the television and so on. History shows that this type of behavior is and has been and most likey will always be an issue in our society. Some things just will not change, people are self absorbed and if theyre not ready to listen they will do just that, not listen. As far as the property value aspect or for that matter the neighborhood worth, I certainly do not appreciate the recent downturn. Example; Ridiculously loud obsene car stereos parked near my home with no regard for time of day or night, using our homes for turn arounds (what if my kids were in the driveway riding bikes or playing with chalk?) something as simple as that could be disastrous) the mysterious passangers that wait in the car until their partners in crime (literally) come back with the next fix or way to complete the next fix, parents, yes parents who leave their children in the car to run in and grab some bathsalts or a bong or a pipe or whatever. Its things like these that that are the real issues. A simple solution would be to just move the location out of a residential area and into a business area. Or is this what we call marketing? Move a headshop that sells bathsalts into an area where there are young impressionable kids, its just outrageous. If by any chance I come off as hoity toity or some stuck up mr. perfect I apoligize, I am neither. I make mistakes and do my best not to repeat them. My bottom line is that I try to provide a safe environment for my children and with the way the world is, things like this just do not help.

Well I am gonna take a walk over there tomorrow and watch the protest, I'm gonna even take my camera and film it for a while but I know I will end up there as well. Its close enough to my neighborhood that I am concerned. I have a feeling I wont be alone in filming either, as this might make news across the region. Its nice to see people band together and take a stand on something like this. Sends a message to those who deal and use too that they are being watched and not wanted. With the paranoia thats common with this drug maybe it will begin to limit itself with the neighborhood taking a stand.

Great Comment.

See you tomorrow

Everyone I have ever met has drank alcohol to get a buzz. I don't drink because I don't like the way it makes me feel. What I have realized is that people with any amount of alcohol in them loose some sense of judgement.