Very surprised to see this poll...Thought It was common Knowledge that this Is part of the problem NYS has with keeping a budget...And there's virtually nothing that can be done...More common Knowledge...throughout history most forms of government fail,disapate or drastically change to be different than what they were to start within 200 years.
GOOD MORNING BATAVIA AND HAVE A GREAT WEEKEND EVERYONE
I've always found it a curious thing....these people work for the government, yet they distrust the very entity that is supposedly "for the people". CSEA is a leech that is sucking the life out of NYS
Read this link and try not to shoot yourself in the head when your done. Downsize government, eliminate entire departments, cut government employee salaries, reduce retirement and benefit plans, bust the public employee unions, and cut taxes.
"Government by and for the public-employees unions is bankrupting, both fiscally and ethically. In his post-Massachusetts explanations of why health-care reform stalled, Pres. Barack Obama vaguely acknowledged a few lapses in transparency. But he never mentioned the grossness inherent in inviting union bosses to the White House so they can exempt their members from a tax. That would cut too close to the bone, since it's hard to tell where the unions end and the Democratic party begins."
As a retired NY State employee who worked with juvenile delinquents for 25 years, I must disagree with most of these views about the unions.
State employees often have the most sensitive and the dirtiest, most dangerous jobs around. As an example, our agency farmed out the less risky youths to private agencies. No one would take the most dangerous or sickest [mentally] youths. That was our job.
We are the people who work in the prisons. We care for the severely disabled. We drive your precious children to school. We care for your children at school, feed them nutritional meals.
We are the state troopers, who stand between harm's way and you. Sometimes we lose our lives protecting you.
We plow the roads, protect the enviornment, make sure the milk your children drink is safe.
Many of our jobs are performed at night, Christmas Day, weekends.
Sure there are slackers, but for the most part, the union employees are some of the finest people you will meet. Many of us end up with broken health. And after years of service, we deserve pensions the same as private businesses.
TRY THIS....One works for a company for 20 years...then that company provides for them for the rest of their lives.....I don't sse This being done efficiently or fairly In the private sector....How does NY think that It can be done....
I have done many of the things that you have used in the private sector. I have worked 106 hour, seven day weeks, given up every holiday at least twice in my life and I have also served my nation with the greatest of pride, yet I will never see the kind of pension or retirement benefits that you enjoy. I think it's ridiculous that you even make a point like that.
You recieve so much more than a VAST MAJORITY of your neighbors.
Ms. Stenman: "but for the most part, the union employees are some of the finest people you will meet." Absolutely true, I have friends and family who are working for or have retired from the state or local gov't or military. I think people who are promised something should receive it. I also think that the rank and file types are not such much of the problem as administration and political types. The problem, to add to Howard's comment, is that many people in private industry have had their jobs eliminated after 15 - 20 years, lost their promised pension, and have to start over at a much later age. I and many other folk lost a lot of money from our 401's in the stock market meltdown, not just the profits but money that was paid in. My pension program is probably going to be work until dead. We are then not being asked, but forced to pay higher taxes in order to fund public pensions. Gov. Paterson said "We will all feel the pain" Not so. I think there's a lot of fat the state could trim in the upper pay echelons before messing with working peoples' pensions, but there should be no sacred cows. This "Great Recession" has not been felt by a large chunk of the public sector, although you'd think they were being tortured.
Ms. Stenman There are no government jobs I can think of that couldn't be performed by a private enterprise at less cost and with better results, including plowing, milk inspection, and law enforcement. Can you prove otherwise?
But the biggest difference between the private sector and government run programs and services is that in the private sector you can choose who will perform services for you, or you can choose not to use and therefore not pay for certain services at all. The government uses the threat of force and violence to make me pay for, and use services I may or may not want to use, and that in most cases are mediocre and substandard when compared to what the private sector has to offer.
We all know wonderful people who have worked for the government at all different levels. But government's poor record in the areas it has monopolized (e.g. mail delivery, education)leads me to believe the system does nothing to inspire public employees to excel at their positions, as their union will protect their bloated contracts and benefits whether they are mediocre workers or not.
I’m finding it hard to believe some of these comments. “Screw those people because I lost mine”. Do you want to take away soldiers’ pensions too, or is it just clerks, snow plow drivers, teachers, police...
15 some years ago when most things were hunky-dory no one would take that $7/hr job plowing snow. Now you all want to crucify the guy who did. We all pretty much choose our jobs. Now that some of your career paths crapped the bed, you want to take away some one else’s. I call that communism.
If you all didn’t realize, this is a closed shop state. By law, where there is a union, every employee must pay dues and belong to the union whether they want to or not. This is the same for public and private sector jobs. Then there’s the Taylor Law. I don’t know too much about it, but from what I've heard, both side hate it (might be a good thing). These 2 things, have 2 things in common, unions and the ELECTED OFFICIALS that gave it to them.
Bad management encourages the need for unions, and then unions abuse bad management. Maybe you should strive towards changing management instead of bashing your neighbors for your choices.
Terry,
You say law enforcement can be done better by private enterprise.
When it comes to the use of deadly force, I don't think the lowest bidder is a great idea. The idea of hiring a company that might come and go, does not protect the public.
True, there are some private firms that guard select people and small sections of communities. But that is not the same as street patrol in say Buffalo or Rochester, or even Batavia.
As I always say to my non-teacher friends who blame me for their high taxes and my pension that I will receive when I retire...I guess you should have chosen to get a Bachelors, get a Masters, fight for a job with the other thousands of people that decided to go to school to be a teacher, fight to keep that job, get cut from the budget once, get called back after a retirement, and hold your breath that it doesn't happen again. Anyone could have gone to school to be a teacher - but they chose not to. Now they want our pension - sorry. That was one of the reasons I chose to work my butt off to get to where I am - financial security when I retire.
Is it any wonder why liberal Democrats love unions. These are good examples of the "free meal ticket" mentality that the liberal welfare state promotes. The socilist dream -- work for the government we'll tax the hell out of everything to support bogus programs so you can have a job,ruin capitalism, take care of you real good then all you have to do is vote for us. The government wants people dependent on the goverment for everything so they can control everything. Just Look at the list of Obama's enemies banks, oil, power, auto, healthcare, and pharma coporations. And at the top of the friends list is public unions.
Unions bankrupted the steel industry. They bankrupted Detroit (twice). They are bankrupting municipal and state governments across the country from California to New York and New Jersey. And, they are on the verge of bankrupting public education in this country.
Noone here is suggesting that anyone "screw" the public emplyee union members. They are simply pointing out that after years of downsizing and zero or negative job growth in NY state, the citizens of this state simply CANNOT AFFORD to continue to provide public sector employees the generous benefit and retirement packages that they continue to recieve.
The reality is, in NY state public sector employees have a higher median and avergae salary than those employed in the private scetor, and their benefit and retirement packages are better as well. The citizens of NY cannot afford to support this level of compensation any longer and are getting tired of doing so.
It is time for public sector employees to realize that the same compensation reductions that private employees have been dealing with for years need to be a part of their near term future as well.
It is not about "screwing" anybody. It is a simple, cold reality that the citizens of this state are tapped out.
Everything - every single thing the goverment does or has their hands in - every program, every job, every salary, every benefit, every union and every union member should be on the chopping block and fair game for deep and severe cuts.
I'm finding this disdain that so many have for union jobs and public jobs peculiar. I remember a time when teacher's, firemen and police were held in the highest regard. Now they're looked upon as money sucking parasites.
Road crews and highway workers barely make a living wage, yet you want to demonize them for their benefits.
Where is the outcry toward the obscene economic inequity between CEO's and the average worker -- from a 2006 study -- CEO's make an average of 364 times the average worker. In 1964 that number was 24 times.
Wealth ownership is concentrated to a very elite 1% of Americans owning 34% of all private wealth -- which is more than is owned by the bottom 90 percent put together. In 2004, the median wealth of the richest 1% was 190 times the median wealth of all Americans.
So go ahead and rail on the workers that plow your streets and teach your children and the few that are left that produce our goods. They are an easy target because they live among you as neighbors and friends. You won't see the people that have taken most of the wealth because they live in gated communities far away from Genesee County.
Lorie said "I remember a time when teacher's, firemen and police were held in the highest regard. Now they're looked upon as money sucking parasites."
I don't view the individuals with any disdain. I do, however, look at the unions as not necessary in general, but definitely not needed in the public sector.
Nobody, absolutely, nobody is criticizing the workers, be they guys driving snow plows, teachers teaching little Johnny to read, or firemen saving lives. That is a mischaracterization of the argument against government unions.
The concern is that the wage and pension disparity has grown so great that New York -- like California -- can no longer support it.
quote:
There was a time when government work offered lower salaries than comparable jobs in the private sector but more security and somewhat better benefits. These days, government workers fare better than private-sector workers in almost every area—pay, benefits, time off, and job security. And not just in California.
According to a 2007 analysis of data from the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics by the Asbury Park Press, “the average federal worker made $59,864 in 2005, compared with the average salary of $40,505 in the private sector.” Across comparable jobs, the federal government paid higher salaries than the private sector three times out of four, the paper found. As Heritage Foundation legal analyst James Sherk explained to the Press, “The government doesn’t have to worry about going bankrupt, and there isn’t much competition.”
In February 2008, before the recession made the disparity much worse, The New York Times reported that “George W. Bush is in line to be the first president since World War II to preside over an economy in which federal government employment rose more rapidly than employment in the private sector.” The Obama administration has extended the hiring binge, with executive branch employment (excluding the Postal Service and the Defense Department) slated to grow by 2 percent in 2010—and more than 15 percent if you count temporary Census workers.
/end quote
While I was in DC, my friend Matt Welch (editor of Reason) and I were walking through the bustling streets of the city and he said, "Washington is a boom town." He observed that while the rest of the country is hurting, Washington is growing faster than ever. Washington, of course, has only one industry - government. He noted what bad shape Los Angeles is in (he recently returned from a visit there), with high unemployment and storefront after storefront boarded up. DC quite a contrast from the rest of the country.
Lori you can not defend what the democratic party pro union policies have done to fiscally ruin states, counties, and cities.
Obama's Democrats have used the financial crisis to attack corporate America while expanding the public sector and the public-sector unions. But voters seem to be saying, "Enough."
These days, you can't tell where the unions end and the democratic party begins. States like New York, New Jersey and California, where public-sector unions are strong, now face enormous budget deficits and pension liabilities. The public sector has become a parasite sucking the life out of the private-sector economy. Not surprisingly, Americans have been steadily migrating out of such states and into states like Texas, where public-sector unions are weak and taxes are much lower.
One-third of last year's $787 billion stimulus package was aid to state and local governments -- an obvious attempt to bolster public-sector unions. And a successful one: While the private sector has lost 7 million jobs, the number of public-sector jobs has risen. The number of federal government jobs has been increasing by 10,000 a month, and the percentage of federal employees earning over $100,000 has jumped to 19 percent during the recession.
Obama and his party are acting in collusion with unions that contributed something like $400,000,000 to Democrats in the 2008 campaign cycle. Public-sector unionism tends to be a self-perpetuating machine that extracts money from taxpayers and then puts it on a conveyor belt to the Democratic party.
Using any of a variety of measures, the Obama administration has broken all records in the distribution of taxpayer dollars to American businesses, primarily banks, automobile manufacturers and insurance companies.
The tidal wave of dollar bills has stunned folks on all sides of the political spectrum.
/quote
And this quote:
The new Corporate Welfare - including the Troubled Asset Relief Program (TARP); the Public-Private Investment Program (PPIP); FDIC Temporary Liquidity Guarantees (TLG); the Targeted Investment Program (TIP); the Term Asset-Backed Securities Lending Facility (TALF) etc., etc. -- goes to corporations that are principal players in the financial practices that contributed to the worst economic downturn since the Great Depression. These corporations include -- but are by no means limited to -- Bank of America, Citigroup, Wells Fargo, AIG, Morgan Stanley, J.P. Morgan, Sun Trust, State Street, U.S. Bancorp, PNC Financial Services, Capital One Financial Corp, American Express, Chase Home Finance, Countrywide, and GMAC Mortgage.
/quote
Government waste of taxpayer money isn't just a Republican or a Democratic thing. They all do it. That's why they're not Republicans or Democrats. They're Republicrats. We essentially have one party rule, with two factions battling over who gets the perks of power.
Lorie, I have no disdain for the public worker. I have relatives with civil service jobs. You are mischaracterizing mine, and most other comments.
While civil servants do a commendable job in most instances, we simply cannot afford to compensate them at the levels of the past. It has nothing to do with disdain. It has everything to do with current economic realities. And frankly, bringing up wealth concentration is a straw man arguement. The real issue is whether or not NY taxpayers can continue to afford to compensate their civil servants, not whether wealth is over-concentrated among the top 1% of the population.
Chad, you totally forgot to mention the actual work of teaching which includes taking your job home with you every night, spending countless hours at home correcting papers and preparing lessons. You didn't mention having deal with discipline problem kids whose parents expect you to work miracles with in the limited time you have with them. You didn't mention the total lack of respect and even violence you get from many of the students today. You didn't mention the cirriculums that are shoved on you and administrations that force you into "teaching for testing" as oppossed to "teaching for learning".
I am not a teacher but I have the utmost respect for the profession. They earn a good living and have good benefits but they earn it.
Lorie: I have no disdain either for teachers, police, firemen, highway workers etc. an honest day's work deserves a fair paycheck. Benefits and retirement too, most people want to retire and afford health care. I, like others think it's gotten out of control. Also, the reason there's no outrage here about overpaid corporate executives is because this thread is about public employee unions, have a poll about Wall Street or Corporate America and I bet there'll be plenty of rants.
Chad, you're wrong, everyone can't be a teacher, everyone doesn't get to go to college. How could everybody possibly be a teacher? That said, I do appreciate the commitment most teachers make for the reasons Jeff wrote above. I thought about it when I was in college and decided I didn't want to. I'd also add that many times they buy supplies out of their own pockets. That said, it doesn't mean you shouldn't bite the bullet a little, like the people who pay school tax which pays for you.
I do have to take issue with the notion that public employee healthcare and retirement benefits have gotten out of control. I have been a public employee and union member for 22 years. In that time my contribution to my health insurance has gone up 5 fold. My co-pays have quadrupled, my benefits have decreased, and the number of doctors who accept my insurance has dwindled each year. Now I consider myself blessed to have health insurancce and all things considered, good health insurance. But to say that it is gotten out of control when it has done nothing but decrease in value while increase in cost to me is an undeserved knock on public employees. As far as my retirement benefits, they are good benefits but have not undergone any improvements in 22 years either.
Bud,
State employee unions can bargain and lobby, but they are, by law, not allowed to strike. That puts them at a great disadvantage compared to other unions. With the law against them, they do the best they can.
John makes a good point about the the no strike clause in the Taylor law, but several of the larger unions(I am in a small independent union) in the state have fallen into pattern bargaining. Most New York State public employee contracts for many years have been largely identical save some tweaks specific to job duties and resonsibilities.
When I think of unionism, I go back to the reason unions were instituted in the first place and that was to protect the worker from oppression. Modern unions resemble nothing of their forerunners. Todays unions are too often the champions of the entitlement. I believe a union has as it's main responsibility members protection against unfair oppression. Unfortunately that has in some places evolved into out of sync wages, work rules and entitlements that drive up the cost of doing business at the very risk of the business itself.
Bud, my union has helped me maintain a me a fair wage and fair benefits in the curent economic climate which has often meant concessions, while providing protection against unfair treatment and/or firing. I may be in the minority, but that is all I ask of my union.
"Obama's Democrats have used the financial crisis to attack corporate America
Howard what about health insurance companies, oil companies, coal, power, cap and trade, pharma. Obama and the dems have a list of ememies and it includes most large profitable corporations.
Very surprised to see this
Very surprised to see this poll...Thought It was common Knowledge that this Is part of the problem NYS has with keeping a budget...And there's virtually nothing that can be done...More common Knowledge...throughout history most forms of government fail,disapate or drastically change to be different than what they were to start within 200 years.
GOOD MORNING BATAVIA AND HAVE A GREAT WEEKEND EVERYONE
I've always found it a
I've always found it a curious thing....these people work for the government, yet they distrust the very entity that is supposedly "for the people". CSEA is a leech that is sucking the life out of NYS
Read this link and try not to
Read this link and try not to shoot yourself in the head when your done. Downsize government, eliminate entire departments, cut government employee salaries, reduce retirement and benefit plans, bust the public employee unions, and cut taxes.
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2010/02/05/its_boom-time_for_…
"Government by and for the public-employees unions is bankrupting, both fiscally and ethically. In his post-Massachusetts explanations of why health-care reform stalled, Pres. Barack Obama vaguely acknowledged a few lapses in transparency. But he never mentioned the grossness inherent in inviting union bosses to the White House so they can exempt their members from a tax. That would cut too close to the bone, since it's hard to tell where the unions end and the Democratic party begins."
I read it, but didn't shoot
I read it, but didn't shoot myself, evidenced by my ability to type
As a retired NY State
As a retired NY State employee who worked with juvenile delinquents for 25 years, I must disagree with most of these views about the unions.
State employees often have the most sensitive and the dirtiest, most dangerous jobs around. As an example, our agency farmed out the less risky youths to private agencies. No one would take the most dangerous or sickest [mentally] youths. That was our job.
We are the people who work in the prisons. We care for the severely disabled. We drive your precious children to school. We care for your children at school, feed them nutritional meals.
We are the state troopers, who stand between harm's way and you. Sometimes we lose our lives protecting you.
We plow the roads, protect the enviornment, make sure the milk your children drink is safe.
Many of our jobs are performed at night, Christmas Day, weekends.
Sure there are slackers, but for the most part, the union employees are some of the finest people you will meet. Many of us end up with broken health. And after years of service, we deserve pensions the same as private businesses.
"And after years of service,
"And after years of service, we deserve pensions the same as private businesses. "
but that's just the problem -- government union pensions FAR exceed what's available in the private sector.
TRY THIS....One works for a
TRY THIS....One works for a company for 20 years...then that company provides for them for the rest of their lives.....I don't sse This being done efficiently or fairly In the private sector....How does NY think that It can be done....
Janice, I have done many of
Janice,
I have done many of the things that you have used in the private sector. I have worked 106 hour, seven day weeks, given up every holiday at least twice in my life and I have also served my nation with the greatest of pride, yet I will never see the kind of pension or retirement benefits that you enjoy. I think it's ridiculous that you even make a point like that.
You recieve so much more than a VAST MAJORITY of your neighbors.
Ms. Stenman: "but for the
Ms. Stenman: "but for the most part, the union employees are some of the finest people you will meet." Absolutely true, I have friends and family who are working for or have retired from the state or local gov't or military. I think people who are promised something should receive it. I also think that the rank and file types are not such much of the problem as administration and political types. The problem, to add to Howard's comment, is that many people in private industry have had their jobs eliminated after 15 - 20 years, lost their promised pension, and have to start over at a much later age. I and many other folk lost a lot of money from our 401's in the stock market meltdown, not just the profits but money that was paid in. My pension program is probably going to be work until dead. We are then not being asked, but forced to pay higher taxes in order to fund public pensions. Gov. Paterson said "We will all feel the pain" Not so. I think there's a lot of fat the state could trim in the upper pay echelons before messing with working peoples' pensions, but there should be no sacred cows. This "Great Recession" has not been felt by a large chunk of the public sector, although you'd think they were being tortured.
Ms. Stenman There are no
Ms. Stenman There are no government jobs I can think of that couldn't be performed by a private enterprise at less cost and with better results, including plowing, milk inspection, and law enforcement. Can you prove otherwise?
But the biggest difference between the private sector and government run programs and services is that in the private sector you can choose who will perform services for you, or you can choose not to use and therefore not pay for certain services at all. The government uses the threat of force and violence to make me pay for, and use services I may or may not want to use, and that in most cases are mediocre and substandard when compared to what the private sector has to offer.
We all know wonderful people who have worked for the government at all different levels. But government's poor record in the areas it has monopolized (e.g. mail delivery, education)leads me to believe the system does nothing to inspire public employees to excel at their positions, as their union will protect their bloated contracts and benefits whether they are mediocre workers or not.
I’m finding it hard to
I’m finding it hard to believe some of these comments. “Screw those people because I lost mine”. Do you want to take away soldiers’ pensions too, or is it just clerks, snow plow drivers, teachers, police...
15 some years ago when most things were hunky-dory no one would take that $7/hr job plowing snow. Now you all want to crucify the guy who did. We all pretty much choose our jobs. Now that some of your career paths crapped the bed, you want to take away some one else’s. I call that communism.
If you all didn’t realize, this is a closed shop state. By law, where there is a union, every employee must pay dues and belong to the union whether they want to or not. This is the same for public and private sector jobs. Then there’s the Taylor Law. I don’t know too much about it, but from what I've heard, both side hate it (might be a good thing). These 2 things, have 2 things in common, unions and the ELECTED OFFICIALS that gave it to them.
Bad management encourages the need for unions, and then unions abuse bad management. Maybe you should strive towards changing management instead of bashing your neighbors for your choices.
Terry, You say law
Terry,
You say law enforcement can be done better by private enterprise.
When it comes to the use of deadly force, I don't think the lowest bidder is a great idea. The idea of hiring a company that might come and go, does not protect the public.
True, there are some private firms that guard select people and small sections of communities. But that is not the same as street patrol in say Buffalo or Rochester, or even Batavia.
How do you think they can do it better?
As I always say to my
As I always say to my non-teacher friends who blame me for their high taxes and my pension that I will receive when I retire...I guess you should have chosen to get a Bachelors, get a Masters, fight for a job with the other thousands of people that decided to go to school to be a teacher, fight to keep that job, get cut from the budget once, get called back after a retirement, and hold your breath that it doesn't happen again. Anyone could have gone to school to be a teacher - but they chose not to. Now they want our pension - sorry. That was one of the reasons I chose to work my butt off to get to where I am - financial security when I retire.
Is it any wonder why liberal
Is it any wonder why liberal Democrats love unions. These are good examples of the "free meal ticket" mentality that the liberal welfare state promotes. The socilist dream -- work for the government we'll tax the hell out of everything to support bogus programs so you can have a job,ruin capitalism, take care of you real good then all you have to do is vote for us. The government wants people dependent on the goverment for everything so they can control everything. Just Look at the list of Obama's enemies banks, oil, power, auto, healthcare, and pharma coporations. And at the top of the friends list is public unions.
Unions bankrupted the steel industry. They bankrupted Detroit (twice). They are bankrupting municipal and state governments across the country from California to New York and New Jersey. And, they are on the verge of bankrupting public education in this country.
Noone here is suggesting that
Noone here is suggesting that anyone "screw" the public emplyee union members. They are simply pointing out that after years of downsizing and zero or negative job growth in NY state, the citizens of this state simply CANNOT AFFORD to continue to provide public sector employees the generous benefit and retirement packages that they continue to recieve.
The reality is, in NY state public sector employees have a higher median and avergae salary than those employed in the private scetor, and their benefit and retirement packages are better as well. The citizens of NY cannot afford to support this level of compensation any longer and are getting tired of doing so.
It is time for public sector employees to realize that the same compensation reductions that private employees have been dealing with for years need to be a part of their near term future as well.
It is not about "screwing" anybody. It is a simple, cold reality that the citizens of this state are tapped out.
Everything - every single
Everything - every single thing the goverment does or has their hands in - every program, every job, every salary, every benefit, every union and every union member should be on the chopping block and fair game for deep and severe cuts.
I'm finding this disdain that
I'm finding this disdain that so many have for union jobs and public jobs peculiar. I remember a time when teacher's, firemen and police were held in the highest regard. Now they're looked upon as money sucking parasites.
Road crews and highway workers barely make a living wage, yet you want to demonize them for their benefits.
Where is the outcry toward the obscene economic inequity between CEO's and the average worker -- from a 2006 study -- CEO's make an average of 364 times the average worker. In 1964 that number was 24 times.
Wealth ownership is concentrated to a very elite 1% of Americans owning 34% of all private wealth -- which is more than is owned by the bottom 90 percent put together. In 2004, the median wealth of the richest 1% was 190 times the median wealth of all Americans.
So go ahead and rail on the workers that plow your streets and teach your children and the few that are left that produce our goods. They are an easy target because they live among you as neighbors and friends. You won't see the people that have taken most of the wealth because they live in gated communities far away from Genesee County.
Lorie said "I remember a time
Lorie said "I remember a time when teacher's, firemen and police were held in the highest regard. Now they're looked upon as money sucking parasites."
I don't view the individuals with any disdain. I do, however, look at the unions as not necessary in general, but definitely not needed in the public sector.
Nobody, absolutely, nobody is
Nobody, absolutely, nobody is criticizing the workers, be they guys driving snow plows, teachers teaching little Johnny to read, or firemen saving lives. That is a mischaracterization of the argument against government unions.
The concern is that the wage and pension disparity has grown so great that New York -- like California -- can no longer support it.
Here's a great peace from Reason about <a href="http://reason.com/archives/2010/01/12/class-war/">the power public employee unions have gained</a> over the past few decades.
quote:
There was a time when government work offered lower salaries than comparable jobs in the private sector but more security and somewhat better benefits. These days, government workers fare better than private-sector workers in almost every area—pay, benefits, time off, and job security. And not just in California.
According to a 2007 analysis of data from the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics by the Asbury Park Press, “the average federal worker made $59,864 in 2005, compared with the average salary of $40,505 in the private sector.” Across comparable jobs, the federal government paid higher salaries than the private sector three times out of four, the paper found. As Heritage Foundation legal analyst James Sherk explained to the Press, “The government doesn’t have to worry about going bankrupt, and there isn’t much competition.”
In February 2008, before the recession made the disparity much worse, The New York Times reported that “George W. Bush is in line to be the first president since World War II to preside over an economy in which federal government employment rose more rapidly than employment in the private sector.” The Obama administration has extended the hiring binge, with executive branch employment (excluding the Postal Service and the Defense Department) slated to grow by 2 percent in 2010—and more than 15 percent if you count temporary Census workers.
/end quote
While I was in DC, my friend Matt Welch (editor of Reason) and I were walking through the bustling streets of the city and he said, "Washington is a boom town." He observed that while the rest of the country is hurting, Washington is growing faster than ever. Washington, of course, has only one industry - government. He noted what bad shape Los Angeles is in (he recently returned from a visit there), with high unemployment and storefront after storefront boarded up. DC quite a contrast from the rest of the country.
Lori you can not defend what
Lori you can not defend what the democratic party pro union policies have done to fiscally ruin states, counties, and cities.
Obama's Democrats have used the financial crisis to attack corporate America while expanding the public sector and the public-sector unions. But voters seem to be saying, "Enough."
These days, you can't tell where the unions end and the democratic party begins. States like New York, New Jersey and California, where public-sector unions are strong, now face enormous budget deficits and pension liabilities. The public sector has become a parasite sucking the life out of the private-sector economy. Not surprisingly, Americans have been steadily migrating out of such states and into states like Texas, where public-sector unions are weak and taxes are much lower.
One-third of last year's $787 billion stimulus package was aid to state and local governments -- an obvious attempt to bolster public-sector unions. And a successful one: While the private sector has lost 7 million jobs, the number of public-sector jobs has risen. The number of federal government jobs has been increasing by 10,000 a month, and the percentage of federal employees earning over $100,000 has jumped to 19 percent during the recession.
Obama and his party are acting in collusion with unions that contributed something like $400,000,000 to Democrats in the 2008 campaign cycle. Public-sector unionism tends to be a self-perpetuating machine that extracts money from taxpayers and then puts it on a conveyor belt to the Democratic party.
Read more at the Washington Examiner: http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/politics/Public-sector-unions-bleed-t…
Read more at the Washington Examiner: http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/politics/Public-sector-unions-bleed-t…
Richard, I'll challenge this
Richard, I'll challenge this statement:
"Obama's Democrats have used the financial crisis to attack corporate America ..."
Nancy Pelosi backed tarp just as vigorously as President Bush. That was a huge bag of corporate welfare dropped right in the lap of corporate America.
And then there was the bailout of GM and Chrysler.
Even the Liberal Huffington Post calls Obama, <a href="http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/04/25/barack-obama-king-of-corp_n_19… of Corporate Welfare</a>.
quote:
Using any of a variety of measures, the Obama administration has broken all records in the distribution of taxpayer dollars to American businesses, primarily banks, automobile manufacturers and insurance companies.
The tidal wave of dollar bills has stunned folks on all sides of the political spectrum.
/quote
And this quote:
The new Corporate Welfare - including the Troubled Asset Relief Program (TARP); the Public-Private Investment Program (PPIP); FDIC Temporary Liquidity Guarantees (TLG); the Targeted Investment Program (TIP); the Term Asset-Backed Securities Lending Facility (TALF) etc., etc. -- goes to corporations that are principal players in the financial practices that contributed to the worst economic downturn since the Great Depression. These corporations include -- but are by no means limited to -- Bank of America, Citigroup, Wells Fargo, AIG, Morgan Stanley, J.P. Morgan, Sun Trust, State Street, U.S. Bancorp, PNC Financial Services, Capital One Financial Corp, American Express, Chase Home Finance, Countrywide, and GMAC Mortgage.
/quote
Government waste of taxpayer money isn't just a Republican or a Democratic thing. They all do it. That's why they're not Republicans or Democrats. They're Republicrats. We essentially have one party rule, with two factions battling over who gets the perks of power.
Lorie, I have no disdain for
Lorie, I have no disdain for the public worker. I have relatives with civil service jobs. You are mischaracterizing mine, and most other comments.
While civil servants do a commendable job in most instances, we simply cannot afford to compensate them at the levels of the past. It has nothing to do with disdain. It has everything to do with current economic realities. And frankly, bringing up wealth concentration is a straw man arguement. The real issue is whether or not NY taxpayers can continue to afford to compensate their civil servants, not whether wealth is over-concentrated among the top 1% of the population.
Chad, you totally forgot to
Chad, you totally forgot to mention the actual work of teaching which includes taking your job home with you every night, spending countless hours at home correcting papers and preparing lessons. You didn't mention having deal with discipline problem kids whose parents expect you to work miracles with in the limited time you have with them. You didn't mention the total lack of respect and even violence you get from many of the students today. You didn't mention the cirriculums that are shoved on you and administrations that force you into "teaching for testing" as oppossed to "teaching for learning".
I am not a teacher but I have the utmost respect for the profession. They earn a good living and have good benefits but they earn it.
Lorie: I have no disdain
Lorie: I have no disdain either for teachers, police, firemen, highway workers etc. an honest day's work deserves a fair paycheck. Benefits and retirement too, most people want to retire and afford health care. I, like others think it's gotten out of control. Also, the reason there's no outrage here about overpaid corporate executives is because this thread is about public employee unions, have a poll about Wall Street or Corporate America and I bet there'll be plenty of rants.
Chad, you're wrong, everyone can't be a teacher, everyone doesn't get to go to college. How could everybody possibly be a teacher? That said, I do appreciate the commitment most teachers make for the reasons Jeff wrote above. I thought about it when I was in college and decided I didn't want to. I'd also add that many times they buy supplies out of their own pockets. That said, it doesn't mean you shouldn't bite the bullet a little, like the people who pay school tax which pays for you.
I do have to take issue with
I do have to take issue with the notion that public employee healthcare and retirement benefits have gotten out of control. I have been a public employee and union member for 22 years. In that time my contribution to my health insurance has gone up 5 fold. My co-pays have quadrupled, my benefits have decreased, and the number of doctors who accept my insurance has dwindled each year. Now I consider myself blessed to have health insurancce and all things considered, good health insurance. But to say that it is gotten out of control when it has done nothing but decrease in value while increase in cost to me is an undeserved knock on public employees. As far as my retirement benefits, they are good benefits but have not undergone any improvements in 22 years either.
Jeff Allen, why isn't your
Jeff Allen, why isn't your union, the one that charges you to be a member, doing anything about that?
Bud, State employee unions
Bud,
State employee unions can bargain and lobby, but they are, by law, not allowed to strike. That puts them at a great disadvantage compared to other unions. With the law against them, they do the best they can.
John makes a good point about
John makes a good point about the the no strike clause in the Taylor law, but several of the larger unions(I am in a small independent union) in the state have fallen into pattern bargaining. Most New York State public employee contracts for many years have been largely identical save some tweaks specific to job duties and resonsibilities.
When I think of unionism, I go back to the reason unions were instituted in the first place and that was to protect the worker from oppression. Modern unions resemble nothing of their forerunners. Todays unions are too often the champions of the entitlement. I believe a union has as it's main responsibility members protection against unfair oppression. Unfortunately that has in some places evolved into out of sync wages, work rules and entitlements that drive up the cost of doing business at the very risk of the business itself.
Bud, my union has helped me maintain a me a fair wage and fair benefits in the curent economic climate which has often meant concessions, while providing protection against unfair treatment and/or firing. I may be in the minority, but that is all I ask of my union.
Hopefully, there's nothing as
Hopefully, there's nothing as bad in New York as the <a href="http://www.slate.com/blogs/blogs/kausfiles/archive/2010/02/22/unions-vs… union in the Los Angeles school district</a>.
Richard, I'll challenge this
Richard, I'll challenge this statement:
"Obama's Democrats have used the financial crisis to attack corporate America
Howard what about health insurance companies, oil companies, coal, power, cap and trade, pharma. Obama and the dems have a list of ememies and it includes most large profitable corporations.