Tim Paine, who lost a Ward 4 council race to Bob Bialkowski two years ago, thinks Rose Mary Christian is personally responsible for him not being part of the Democratic slate this year.
He blames Christian for bringing candidate Julie Wallace into the fold and promoting her to other committee members, thereby costing him a chance to win a council seat. He believes he would've gotten more votes than Wallace, and more than the Republican with the fewest votes, too.
"I honestly feel I might have been the top of the ticket," Paine said, "and as hard as I work, I think I could have grabbed that third spot."
So tonight, he made no bones about seeking some payback and released to The Batavian and the Daily News a 20-month-old e-mail written by Christian and sent to her fellow City Council members. The Feb. 16, 2008 missive explained why she was fired from Wal-Mart.
The gist of it is that she and two other workers ate pieces of coffee cake from a damaged box that was going to wind up in the trash.
Christian was accused of violating store policy by opening the coffee cake package for another employee and then eating a small portion of it along with that employee and another worker.
When confronted by a store manager, Christian refused to give up the names of the other employees involved and she was terminated on the spot.
Here's the e-mail Rose Mary sent to all eight of her council colleagues, as well as City Attorney George Van Nest:
I want you to know that I was terminated by Wal-Mart for the following reason. I with two other girls ate a piece of coffee cake that was damaged. I opened the side of it and pulled it out. The girl who also ate some of it told on me. Almost a week later, my boss was told about it. When confronted, I would not tell who the other girls were. I was guilty of eating a piece of it, and was terminated. In case you hear it from someone else, I did it. Ro
(This e-mail was edited for typos only.)
For his part, Paine says flatly, releasing the e-mail "is personal. This is strictly a personal thing."
He takes umbrage with those who might minimize the importance of the issue.
"I can't tell you how much it pisses me off when people say, 'it was just a piece of coffee cake,'" Paine said. "How much will it be next time? Well, it was big enough that Wal-Mart fired her."
Large national retailers routinely terminate employees for even the most petty of infractions. There's no opportunity for appeal and no explanation will suffice. It's simply a zero-tolerance policy.
As the e-mail above indicates, Christian has no problem admitting she broke a rule -- though she says she was unaware of the policy at the time.
She said a girl who worked at the store came in to start her shift and said she was hungry, and Christian told her, "there's a damaged coffee cake over there." The girl started to stick her finger into the package and Christian said, "Don't do it like that. You don't know who's fingers have been in there." Christian then opened the package for her. At that point, they each took a small piece of the coffee cake as did a third employee.
Christian (electronically) scanned the package so the coffee cake would be reported as damaged inventory before it was thrown away.
Christian is the Democratic candidate for the District 7 County Legislature seat, running against Republican Bob Radley. She has represented Ward 6 for 18 years, and remains -- by all accounts very popular in her ward. We are told her nickname in that neighborhood is "Mayor of Ward 6."
Political observers we've spoken to suspect that in Ward 6, her unwillingness to "rat out" her co-workers will play well with voters. But in the more conservative Ward 1, the idea that she stole anything whatsoever may be all voters remember at the polls.
Christian said she doesn't want to be seen as a hero for not telling managers the names of the two other employees. She broke policy and was terminated. That's that.
She did say, however, that when Wal-Mart tried to fight her eligibility for unemployment, a judge ruled that she had been unfairly terminated and awarded her unemployment benefits, which she did receive for a time. She plans to make a letter confirming that decision public as soon as she obtains a copy.
Christian was taken aback to learn that Paine had a personal issue with her. She said she had no idea until this came up today that Paine was mad at her. She said although she introduced Wallace to the Democrat Committee, she had nothing to do with Wallace getting the nod over Paine.
"This is a figment of his imagination," Christian said.
She also noted that Paine dropped out of contention on his own, which Paine confirms.
Two weeks ago, Paine re-registered as a Republican.
Christian accused City Council President Charlie Mallow and Paine of conspiring to leak her old e-mail to the media -- even though she admits she had no expectation that it would remain private when she sent it. She said Paine must have gotten the e-mail from Mallow.
It's unclear how Paine obtained the e-mail. He initially said he got it from Mallow, but later denied it and said -- and Mallow concurs -- that the e-mail was shared with all City Democrat Committee members and discussed extensively at the time by the committee.
"We were trying to decide what we should do about it," Mallow said.
He said earlier that he wants nothing to do with the spat between Paine and Christian, calling them both friends.
"It's personal and it's why I don't want to have anything to do with politics," Mallow said. "It's one person against another person and they both happen to be my friends. It's like watching two friends fight in a schoolyard. What are you supposed to do?"
Ummm...Seriously? Is this
Ummm...Seriously?
Is this the best that the other side has on Rose Mary? A disgruntled former Democrat who is mad because him running unopposed couldn't have happened?
Really?
This is all pretty silly.
It was a freak'n coffee cake,
It was a freak'n coffee cake, not yellow cake for heaven's sake. She was honest, she never expected the email to stay buried for as long as it did. Now that her nefarious past is out in the open, I'm sure Tim and company can cry "let them eat cake - and if they do take a bite, we'll crush them!".
Dan, silly isn't the word for it. To be serious, Rose Mary is one of the most honest people I know. She has served this city well. If this was truly a crime, as Tim would like us all to believe, why wasn't she prosecuted? Give it a rest, Tim!
Wow, another high school
Wow, another high school flashback. Make that middle school.
nonsensical poppycock as it's
nonsensical poppycock as it's finest
I almost died laughing at
I almost died laughing at this.
Good food is good food. There's no point of letting it go to waste, regardless of any store policy. Seriously.
If it has to be thrown away, why not eat some of it?
First, lets make something
First, lets make something perfectly clear -- anyone can run for office. If there are more people than candidate slots in a given party it goes to a primary where the voters decide. It's as simple as that. Sounds a lot like someone decided to take his toys and go home. Or try a new sandbox with a different Party. Maybe they'll play nicer.
Rose Mary is forthright and honest in that email -- like she always is. There's a reason why she is beloved in the Southside.
I smell sour grapes. Is there a sour grape flavored coffee cake?
It is amazing and incredible
It is amazing and incredible that the Coffee Cake Caper has made the press at all.... This is our very own "Crumble Topping Tip-Off" that is certainly politcal. This is the Batavia Democratic Party's Deep Throat??? WOW!!!!!
I CAN NOT STOP LAUGHING !!!!!!
Do you know once in college I ate a roll from the baking rack because I baked one role too many for the dozen packages I needed and I would have had to throw it out?.....WOW... I will resign tomorrow over the "Extra Role Excess Caper"... Oh I scammed some butter from the Deli too......EEEKKKK Almost three strikes and I am out...
As Chair of the Election Committee for the Democratic Party and now the Chair of the City of Batavia Democratic Party I can tell you that Tim Paine removed his name from consideration when there were only three possible candidates. I never heard that Mrs. Christian had anything to do with the Committee's Decision.
Can I stop laughing now and get some sleep.... Tim...thanks for the GREAY LAUGH.....
Really? Coffeecake?
Really? Coffeecake? Throughout this election season some very important County issues have been brought to the forefront. Let's not get sidetracked by pastry.
It's that slippery slope,
It's that slippery slope, Pat. First a roll, then the butter and next thing you know your buttering the roll.
Posted by Lorie Longhany on
Posted by Lorie Longhany on October 21, 2009 - 12:14am
It's that slippery slope, Pat. First a roll, then the butter and next thing you know your buttering the roll.
...and then, horrors, you'll eat it! What next, after a roll and butter; a muffin with jam?
To interject once more, I
To interject once more, I hate when people view this or refer to it as "stealing".
It isn't.
Chris..... From a retail
Chris..... From a retail management point of view.. it IS stealing. It's inventory and has to be accounted for. If they didn't pay for it and had no receipt attached to it....and consumed it on the premises. It was stolen merchandise. Therefore it should have been thrown out or disposed of as the policy dictated. It's a waste I know, but it's the way it is in most, if not all companies. I have to give her credit though when she sent out the email, she covered her butt. She already gave her explination so bringing it up now or dragging her name through the mud is petty and childish.
Maybe from a retail point of
Maybe from a retail point of view (of which I know next to nothing) but it is interesting to learn that...
"...when Wal-Mart tried to fight her eligibility for unemployment, a judge ruled that she had been unfairly terminated and awarded her unemployment benefits..."
You are right, it is childish and petty.
I wonder if Tim thinks this is going to give him Brownie points with his new found party? Are they going to give him the nod to run, next time, knowing that he's a loaded gun just waiting to go off on one of their own?
I want to clarify why
I want to clarify why companies would rather see the merchandise thrown away, rather then consumed by employees. Shrink or loss due to theft or damages comes off the bottom line profits. They set aside or budget a certain percentage per quarter which totals the amount of loss per fiscal year the store is allotted. If you let the employees consume the damages what is to stop them from going through the isles and "damaging" what ever it is they are hungry for at the time?
Ok so lets give an example. If 10 employees make this a daily habit (in a store as big as walmart it would probably be more then 10) and they each work 5 days a week and each damage an average of 10 dollars a day. You're talking 500.00 a week. Times 52....That's $26,000.00 a year.
Who do you think pays for that? In the long run the customers do. To make up for the money lost they have to raise prices.
Personally I don't know why she wouldn't have gotten unemployment. She was unemployed and even though she was termed it shouldn't have mattered. Though a lot of companies fight against the claims or make it hard for people to get them. I also think these companies depend on the fact that most people wouldn't know enough to fight the judgement and ask for a hearing. They probably save money that way. I'm assuming with most other insurances the more claims they have the more it costs the company.
I'm not saying Walmart is right, I'm just saying this is the way it is in most companies.
and as far as Mr, Paine goes...I wouldn't trust him either. He threw her under the bus nothing would stop him from throwing someone else under there with her.
"I wonder if Tim thinks this
"I wonder if Tim thinks this is going to give him Brownie points with his new found party? Are they going to give him the nod to run, next time, knowing that he's a loaded gun just waiting to go off on one of their own?"
Mother... let me enlighten you...
A rat.. is a rat... is a rat..
doesn't matter if it's red or blue...
it's still a rat. :)
Susan, from a straight-up,
Susan, from a straight-up, completely honest, no bullshit point of view, it isn't stealing. Period.
There are things in this world that you shouldn't have to defend, fight or worry about. This is one of them.
Chris, whether you agree or
Chris, whether you agree or not, the company policy is that it's stealing. Period
Hey Paine, how does it feel
Hey Paine, how does it feel knowing that your “Personal” attack against Rose Mary, my mom, just back fired in your face?
After this happened to my mom, she was very upset and very troubled by this whole situation. She then did the NOBLE and HONORABLE thing and e-mailed each councilperson the story that transpired as to why she was terminated. She wanted her colleagues to hear it from her and she only received positive feedback.
Another key point in this story which is VERY important to remember, is that my mom applied for unemployment, naturally, Wal-Mart denied her of it. She appealed, and guess what folks, she won. A Supreme Court Justice from Buffalo heard her case, favored her, overruled Wal-Mart’s decision, and they had no choice but to pay her unemployment. No judge in their right mind would side with someone if they truly believed a crime was committed. Also, no arrests were made, she went against store policy, period.
Two years later Paine now turns this story over to the Batavia Daily News and to the Batavian, about the coffee cake bandit Rose Mary Christian. How convenient that Paine decided to give this information to The Daily and The Batavian two weeks prior to this year’s election. If this was such an important issue for Paine, where was he two years ago? You decide to unload this story now? Paine also received this information from a councilperson via-e-mail. Hmmmmm……that’s a hard one to figure out. I think maybe Mr. Mallow gave this information to Paine. Talk about LEAKS. I may be wrong, maybe it was a different councilperson, I’m NOT saying it was Mr. Mallow, I’m just thinking out loud. It was after all two years ago that my mom sent that e-mail to all of her council colleagues explaining what had happened, therefore, they would only have this information via-e-mail, NO ONE else was purveyed to this information, and YET somehow, this e-mail ends up in Howard’s hands.
This is clearly a personal vendetta brewed up by Paine along with a “certain” councilperson, in hopes that this will hinder her ability to clutch the county legislature seat. Paine already admitted this is "Personal". Personally, I don't even know how this is NEWS WORTHY, it is laughable. I’m sure everyone on The Batavian thanks you Paine for the great laughs!
For all the assistance my mom gave Paine and Mallow in past years, this is the thanks she gets? You both should be totally ashamed of yourselves, as this is SO below the belt and pathetic. Rose Mary has integrity, and is one of the most honest straightforward people you will ever meet.
Mom, you silly coffee cake bandit you! Way to go for not being a snitch and not turning your co-coffee cake bandits over to Wal-Mart. Keep your head held high, and keep fighting the good fight as you always do! I’m very proud of you.
Now it is time for some real news.
Bud, you're incorrect. It is
Bud, you're incorrect. It is NOT stealing.
Company policies do not redefine words. Walmart is welcome to include in their company policy that employees cannot eat food that has been marked as damaged, but that does not make it stealing, even if Walmart says its stealing.
Yes, Rose Mary broke company policy. No, it does not make her any less honest or damage her credibility. No, it was not stealing.
For the sake of my quickly dwindling sanity, everyone please think before you post.
"Susan, from a straight-up,
"Susan, from a straight-up, completely honest, no bullshit point of view, it isn't stealing. Period."
Chris. Really doesn't matter what your POV is here. We are talking company policy. If the company says it's stealing then it's stealing.
Back to the more important side of this whole thing. Rose Mary did the right thing at the time. She wrote the email and told everyone what happened and how bad she felt about it. It was a stand up kind of thing. Showed she had the integrity to do so, she made a mistake and owned up to it. Paine is a jerk. He's already admitted he's doing this because it's his way of getting back at her because he didn't get his own way.
Raelene... awesome post! You did your mom proud :)
Chris- how about pilfer? Do
Chris- how about pilfer? Do you prefer that sanitized version of it?
And I absolutely am not questioning Rose Mary's integrity. I believe it was a small mistake on the journey of life(who doesn't make them?), and from all accounts was water under the bridge.
I admire Mr. Paine for being honest enough to admit this is a personal vendetta. I also loath Mr. Paine for this amateurish political game he is attempting to play. What happened 2 years ago is irrelevant at this point, and you have exhibited very childish behavior by stirring up something that is history.
Rose Mary, you should thank your former democrat turncoat for his assistance. This only makes you look like the rest of your constituents, human. Good luck in the election, not that you're going to need it. :)
For the sake of my quickly
For the sake of my quickly dwindling sanity, everyone please think before you post
Yes your holiness
Chris taking something that
Chris taking something that doesn't belong to you or that you didn't pay for... is stealing. Not just at Walmart but every where.
I have worked retail management for 17 years for more then one company and the policies are the same everywhere. Its not up for grabs, its damaged and has to be disposed of or sent back for credit. It's stealing if you take it with out paying for it. Weather it's a pack of gum or a TV... you can't just take it because you decide you can.
I am also interested in how many years retail management experience you have to support your opinion. Just because you don't agree.. doesn't mean you're right.
Tim, There were 3 Democrat
Tim,
There were 3 Democrat seats open this year. If you ran in a primary, you would have had 3 chances to win. You can't blame that on Julie running or you have to blame the others also. Why blame just Julie?
It looks like the voteres in the 4th ward made the right choice by going with Bob Bialkowski after all.
Its a shame Radley has to have his supporters sink this low. This
Rose Mary broke a store rule and was let go, they took care of it and it was between her and the Store.
You had months and months to do this. Why wait until Roese Mary was ahead in the election?
Tim, why did you wait until AFTER changing parties? Was there something in this for you?
Chris and Sue, you are both
Chris and Sue, you are both in the same church, but in different pews.
Yes, the tiny piece of coffee cake should not have been consumed, per Wal-Mart's policy.
We have a person, who on more than one occasion has vented his real or perceived injures in public, chosing this time to 'leak' a story that has no bearing on the coming election.
Did he clear this story with the Republican committee before he decided to alert the media? Somehow I doubt it. Would they believe that this story would help them in November? They have enough political savvy to know it wouldn't.
Each of us should look into our past (for example, Patrick's roll and butter story) and say, "but for the grace of God, go I".
Is pastry-gate the important issue of this election? No.
Rose Mary is living the motto, "Fair, Balanced, and Transparent". She never tried to hide this incident. She was up front with the City Council; the City Administrtor; and the City's attorney.
Is this a bombshell issue? Absolutely not.
Realene, I'm not going to
Realene, I'm not going to accept your attack on me. There was no conspiracy to release this information against your mom from me. In fact, I was under the assumption at the time that this would get out shortly after it was written and was trying to figure out how we should handle that. Your mom sent that letter to a lot of people and wasn't shy about telling people. The lead members of the city committee knew about this at that time and it was discussed behind the scenes, Tim was one of those people and knew about it at that time.
Tim doesn't like your mom and his actions are his own. Stop lashing out at anyone at arms length. If I wanted to put it out, I would have.
I wonder if little Timmy
I wonder if little Timmy Paine ever did anything he's not proud of....I hope we find out...
is this the start of an
is this the start of an attack by Barney and Blazestar??
FWIW: Tim was adamant in a
FWIW: Tim was adamant in a follow up phone call that he didn't say in our first phone call that Charlie gave him the letter. I'm equally adamant that he did say that.
That said, it makes more sense that the letter was shared with all city committee members in the context Charlie says it was shared -- what do we do about it? How do we respond? It's quite reasonable to conclude that Tim misspoke in our first conversation and that he obtained it through the normal course of city committee business.
Again, Rose Mary had no expectation, and I made a point of being clear with her on this when we talked, that the e-mail would be private. There are Republicans on the City Council who got the e-mail, and she had to know that one or more of them might make an issue of it if they wanted.
This also isn't a "personnel matter" in the way the letter about Jason Molino was. No council member was obligated in any legal sense to keep the e-mail confidential. There's no comparison between the two releases of the communications.
Posted by Charlie Mallow on
Posted by Charlie Mallow on October 21, 2009 - 7:25am
Realene, I'm not going to accept your attack on me. There was no conspiracy to release this information against your mom from me.
From the article:
"It's unclear how Paine obtained the e-mail. He initially said he got it from Mallow, but later denied it and said -- and Mallow concurs -- that the e-mail was shared with all City Democrat Committee members and discussed extensively at the time by the committee.
"We were trying to decide what we should do about it," Mallow said."
Why would Tim implicate you when asked who was his source? It would appear that he was ready to throw you under the bus as well.
Charlie wrote:
"The lead members of the city committee knew about this at that time and it was discussed behind the scenes, Tim was one of those people and knew about it at that time. "
There is a discrepency in these two versions. One is that the issue was discussed, extensively, by the committee (an agenda item at a meeting perhaps?) and one that states it was discussed behind the scenes by certain members of the committee.
Like it or not, Charlie, but Tim has stamped your name on this. You and he will have to sort out why he chose to name you (and then retract it).
An additional note, Tim wants
An additional note, Tim wants me to note that he mentioned Rose Mary's termination to me back in May (he says it was at the anniversary party for The Batavian).
I told him this last night when we spoke: I don't clearly recall the information coming clearly from him at that time, but I do remember hearing about it. It makes sense that it came from him at that gathering.
Now, the question may arise: Why didn't you report it then. My answer: At the time, it fell into a category of gossip and rumor. In hindsight, knowing now what I know about the incident, Rose Mary probably just would have come right out and talked about it had I asked, but it seemed like one of those things that with all the protections "personnel" have, especially in the private sector, that it would have been impossible to confirm. I did not, at the time, know about the e-mail Rose Mary sent out.
Charlie- all the "he said,she
Charlie- all the "he said,she said" aside....I bet you can't wait to be done with your position. Whether you were or were not involved, this tool Tim Paine dragged your name through the mud on his personal vigilante campaign. Small town politics are frighteningly amusing.
Bea, this is simple there is
Bea, this is simple there is no discrepancy. This was known by most if not all the Democrats on the City committee for at least a year. Tim says it came from me because, it did at that time. It is true that I knew about Rosemary getting fired from Wal-Mart but, I was the party chair and it was my job to make sure we had a response. There I said it, for those of you who don’t like political parties, fire away. We cover for our own.
Bud, I consider both Tim and Rosemary friends. At least I did. I have a few days left and it really doesn’t matter to me who wins or loses in this legislative seat. It has no bearing on my life; the city has been my cause for the last four plus years. I have Bob’s sign up in front of my house and asked Rosemary twice to put up hers too. I have a sign for the Dem Council candidates and one for the Reps too. It is VERY hard to take sides in this year’s elections for me. I have personal relationships with pretty much everyone involved in politics in this town.
What do you do when all your friends can’t get along? That’s pretty much what’s going on with the city Dems right now. Everyone seems to have lost sight of those three city council candidates. I’m going to continue going door to door for them. That’s my focus right now.
Oh My Goodness!! Tim is
Oh My Goodness!! Tim is this the best you can do? Personal? Coverup? Yuck-Yuck-Yuck You have just suceeded in not only embarassing yourself, but Charlie, and all of city council too. Your desperation to discredit Rosemary isnt going to work. She chose to go down for her fellow workers, because of a coffee cake. "Honorable" is what that is. Big deal, so Walfart fired her, over a coffee cake. Petty Tim Petty, and just like the group you support.
Im not suprized at your actions, but feel sorry for you. Your slander, and over exagerations are childish to say the least. I for one would not support YOU. We dont need anymore of this shinanigans going on in our city.
Why dont you focus on the real coverup in city council, "the complaint" against Jason Molino. What tangled webs we weave, when first we try to decieve. I dont feel so bad now seeing this circus. You and your gang are acting like a bunch of cackling woman. WHAT A BUNCH OF CLOWNS Enough Of The Petty Politics!!!~
VOTE ROSEMARY CHRISTIAN,
THE ADULT CHOICE,
FOR THE TRUTH,
FOR THE PEOPLE,
FOR THE GOOD OF OUR COMMUNITY
Adult life is just like 2nd
Adult life is just like 2nd grade, only the people are taller.
Thief! I will not vote for
Thief!
I will not vote for an admitted thief. We have enough of them in government.
Once again, good job Batavia. I have something you might need.
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Just like with the bank robbery everyone assumes they know what happened and try to destroy someone while fluffing their own feathers.
Even if she wasn't a thief, I'd vote for Mr. Paine simply because of the way he was demonized by you people.
Fixed...
Fixed...
Mr. Pain, there was no
Mr. Pain, there was no coverup. Rosemary told everyone about it. See she wears her heart on her sleeve. She is damn hard worker, good ethic, and is constantly working. I dont care if its peeling potatoes, she'll do it.
Thats what Batavia Needs, someone who isnt afraid to get her hands dirty and brake a nail. Someone who isnt willing to LIE, and COVERUP for her fellow workers. Someone who is going to do a Great job for her community, and is looking for the better of all of our futures. Im just choking on my coffee right now. I promised Howard I would be nice, and man Im tryin Howard. But What the Heck! I will not forget about the true cover-up in council, and neither should all of you out there in Batavia. Red Flags Are Flying, you just have to open your eyes to see them......
**
**
Peter where have you been?
Peter where have you been? It's good to hear from you again.
Peter's picture above: "Jump
Peter's picture above: "Jump to Conclusions" game idea from the movie "Office Space" (must see for anybody who works in a corporate office environment).
From the movie:
Tom Smykowski: It was a "Jump to Conclusions" mat. You see, it would be this mat that you would put on the floor... and would have different CONCLUSIONS written on it that you could JUMP TO.
Michael Bolton: That's the worst idea I've ever heard in my life, Tom.
Samir: Yes, this is horrible, this idea.
Jeff, I was banned for a
Jeff, I was banned for a comment in a personal email.
This whole issue is exactly
This whole issue is exactly the sort of political "debate" that turns so many potential voters off. This topic is just a microcosm of the larger political farce. While I agree that character is certainly an issue when choosing a candidate, discussions like this one tend to detract from the bigger picture.
I remember being excited about finally being able to vote when I turned 18 and registered, but now I frequently find myself befuddled when trying to sift through all the rhetoric and garbage bandied about by all political parties and the politicians who seem content to toe the party line.
How disappointing, discouraging, and disgusting.
Susan, taking something that
Susan, taking something that doesn't belong to you or that you didn't pay for is indeed stealing.
However, we're talking about damaged goods that were to be disposed of. The Supreme Court ruled that trash isn't owned by anyone, and it isn't illegal to take.
If Rose Mary had taken the coffee cake, gently placed it in the trash, she could have picked it right back up and eaten it. Walmart has no say, because after the coffee cake went in to the trash, Walmart no longer legally owned it. In the case of public opinion, Walmart lost ownership once it was reported as damaged. Her only mistake was that she skipped the putting it in the trash can part.
Your 17 years in retail management, nor Walmart's company policy doesn't really matter. She still didn't steal anything.
Now, if you'll excuse me, I have class.
Tim, who is without sin,
Tim, who is without sin, should be seeking Sainthood instead of a City Council seat. Dude, I know you ate some of my french fries but I forgive you.
Chris, I'd have to go back
Chris, I'd have to go back and look at that case. I know there have been cases that allow reporters to pick through your garbage once it's been put out to the curb, but I'm not sure a person could go onto your property and pick through your garbage. It's not public domain yet. So if the coffee cake is still in the store, even if it's scanned, wouldn't it still be Wal-Mart's property?
I'm not, of course, defending Wal-Mart's position, just thinking the case you mention should be look at in light of what the case actually says vs. the actual events.
In that situation, the trash
In that situation, the trash is public domian, but because residential property isn't public unless otherwise stated (see hotels), it would be illegal to trespass to reach the trash can.
Walmart's property is public. The trash can doesn't have to be on the curb for its contents to be public domain. The act of putting an object in a trash can is what makes it public domain, from a legal standpoint. A lot of the parts in my "bone yard" came from dumpsters belonging to Best Buy, Walmart, Radioshack, and a few other computer stores in Rochester. I'm quoting what they explained to me when I asked if I could raid their dumpsters. I don't claim to be an expert. I've read up on the court cases around this to get a better understanding of what the law says on it.
What I'm trying to get people to understand that what Rose Mary did isn't stealing, which is what the party against her is trying to paint this as to damage her credibility and honesty.
It is NOT stealing. The only crime Rose Mary is guilty of is breaking company policy.
Anyone who knows Rosemary
Anyone who knows Rosemary knows that she is about as honest as they come and I don't think there are too many people who work harder for the citizens of Batavia than Rosemary. She will make a wonderful legislator. I'm not in her district but if I was, there wouldn't be a doubt in my mind who I would vote for.
I'm lucky to have Chris Charvella running in my district and he has clearly shown what a great legislator he will be. If anyone hasn't watched the debates on the Batavian, they are a must see. You will clearly see that Rosemary and Chris are the candidates that will best represent the city residents. Best of luck to both of them.
Chris, Wal-mart is private
Chris, Wal-mart is private property. It's not public.
How many years has city
How many years has city council been messed up ? Everyone of the 17 years Rosemary has been on board , some of the blame has to fall in her lap . There is more than one ward in this city ,does she know that . It is illegal to pick out of trash bags at the curb . Bone yards pay for the junk they get and charge in return . I could easily eat some rare bolts that I need for my 69' charger , walk out the door of the bone yard ,visit the restroom the next day and suprise I have my bolts . Is this stealing ? They were junk and I ate them ?
Thomas, Not too sure what
Thomas,
Not too sure what you wanted to say, but as for Rose Mary knowing there is more than one ward; she knows.
That is one reason she is against the sports complex being built in the 1st ward. But, she is the 6th ward council person and that who she has to look out for first, right?
Remember, this has less to do with her breaking a company rule 2 YEARS AGO. It is about a guy who said he wants to get even with her.
Tommy, If you ask the
Tommy, If you ask the boneyard manager if you can have all the bolts you can eat, my guess is he will say yes and then follow you around with a camcorder. If Rosemary had asked her boss first he or she might have said yes too, and eaten everything that was left. And maybe poked a finger into a couple more.
I still cant get the picture
I still cant get the picture out of my head: an angry mob in a small town wielding torches in front of the city hall demanding a hanging !
(Dont forget to support the sponsors, and help the batavian by purchasing a sweatshirt)!
The reason for Wal-Mart to
The reason for Wal-Mart to have such a rule is for the exact reason you stated (poke fingers in a couple more). I damage a product , then scan it to damaged inventory . Therefor I get first dibs on the product . This could be very costly to the company if everyone was to damage product in order to gain possesion of them . If Rosemary had a couple more co-workers to feed then there would have been two damaged cakes .
I have friends that work(ed)
I have friends that work(ed) at Wal-mart. IMO, it is a cult. If you don't drink the "kool-aid" that they pour you will be banished. They consider what they do to their employees appropriate and reasonable. I think it is Cult-like and damaging to a community like Batavia.
Posted by Thomas Mooney on
Posted by Thomas Mooney on October 21, 2009 - 2:13pm
If Rosemary had a couple more co-workers to feed then there would have been two damaged cakes .
Are you saying what she explained is a lie? She said it was a damaged container. She scanned it. The mistake was offering a portion to co-workers and for herself. Never once, has anyone implied that she damaged the container in order to feed her friends.
If you have knowledge to the contrary, why didn't you come forward three years ago.
That is quite an accusation to make.
You may not like Rose Mary, but this is exactly the reaction that Tim wanted. Make it up as you go along.
Everyone makes mistakes and
Everyone makes mistakes and the most important thing is to learn from them. It is obvious that Ms. Christian did not set out to steal or to break company policy; she saw something that in her mind would go to waste and opened it. I am certain that if placed in the same situation again, she would not repeat her error.
What is stealing? Taking something which does not belong to you. I don't think she considered it stealing at the time she did it. Hindsight is 20/20 and she certainly was punished for her misjudgment. It is also stealing to make personal copies on the office copier, snatch a piece of pepperoni off of the pie you are making, take a pen home that was in your desk, wash your car when the boss is away, drive your company vehicle on personal time, give a relative a 'free' donut, etc. If you take something that is not yours, you are stealing. Certainly if you have prior permission, it is not a problem.
Mr. Paine, on the other hand, has made a grave misstep in attacking Ms. Christian in the way that he has. He has done nothing but make himself appear the fool. Instead of putting Ms. Christian under the microscope, he has aimed it upon himself. Mr. Paine, have you never heard the saying, 'People in glass houses should not throw stones'?
Mr. Paine, I do hope you have never taken as much as a staple without permission. A whole lot of people are focused on you right now for taking the low road. Mr. Paine, how low can you go? In trying to damage someone else's reputation, you flushed your own.
<a href=http://www.getsmileyface.com><img src=http://s150.photobucket.com/albums/s103/yourspacecooment/fighting/fight… border=0><br><font face=arial size=1>Mr. Paine's future in politics</font></a>
I serve with Rosemary on City
I serve with Rosemary on City Council, and I have the utmost respect for her. She truly has the best interest of the City at heart. In this year's election, I hope the people in her district judge Rosemary by her record--what she stands for. No one will work harder for you than Rosemary Christian.
Don't judge her by the comments made by Mr. Paine.
Kathy Briggs
5th Ward Councilperson and her friend
Not everyone on the city
Not everyone on the city committee was privy to discussions about this incident. In fact, I know a good percentage of city committee people that heard this for the first time last night and when it hit the newspaper today.
These discussions were not held at any business meeting in the city or the county.
Whoever was engaged in a conversation concerning this incident -- I would guess -- were not looking out for Rose Mary's best interest. Certainly Mr Paine, who makes it a point of letting us all know that it's "personal", wouldn't be offering up any wisdom or guidance.
Too bad we don't have sound
Too bad we don't have sound effects on here-we could cue up a crying baby for Mr. Paine.....wahh,wahhh,wahhhhhh......grow up! Who wants to be a politician that bad??? ALL politicians lie and cheat-this should come as no surprise!
The coffee cake was scanned
The coffee cake was scanned and removed from inventory prior to the eating of it. It was sampled on the way to the trash can. No one was out anything once the item was removed from inventory. Wal Mart could feed thousands of homeless people in america just on the safe food products they throw away weekly. What Rose Mary did wasn't anything other people do daily like bring home pens from work or post it notes, magic markers and paper for thier printer. lets not forget the personal copie from the company copier. I guess we are all bad people according to Mr Pain. Get over the fact you lost your chance at council and now you boosted Ms Christian's vote count.
Rosemary has been an elected
Rosemary has been an elected official in local politics for 18 years. She is well known in our city for several reasons. First she has consistently fought for the residents and taxpayers in the Sixth Ward to represent them and find solutions for issues that are prevalent in the Six Ward. This has been everything from fixing broken sidewalks, to helping ward residents apply for grants available to help residents improve their property, and meeting with them one-on-one to listen to their concerns. This is why she has been re-elected time after time and why no one runs against her for council.
I have known Rosemary for about 12 years and during the past 2 years have gotten to know her better when I became a member of city council. During my 2 years on Council I have seen Rosemary make decisions up close. What I respect most about her is that she is genuine. She fights for the rights of all citizens and tax payers in the city. She does not play it safe, hide her feelings on issues or delay acting . She is not concerned with getting re-elected; she is first and foremost concerned with doing the right thing for our citizens. Before I became a member of council I got the feeling Rosemary mostly voted against things. When I was elected to council I discovered why she voted no many times.
When you are elected to council you take an oath to the people to look after their concerns, welfare and tax dollars. I take this responsibility very seriously. Rosemary is the epitome of what our oath stands for and in representing the taxpayers in her ward and in the city. She has been at the forefront for a long time in voting to protect the taxpayers from unsustainable spending by council, from speaking out on what we should be doing and not doing, and on challenging council to act responsibly. Her concern is with doing what is right for the taxpayers and the city. She is the one council member who most often takes a visible stand on issues when they need to be taken even though they are controversial. Rosemary is an honest person, an honest council member, and a credit to our city.
I respect her as a council person because she takes her responsibility very seriously. I count Rosemary as a friend, a good friend. This transcends me being a Republican and she being a Democrat. We have disagreed upon a number of issues in the past but we agree on much more than we disagree upon. I have developed a respect and friendship with Rosemary which I value and I say this without reservation. Her heart and mind is in the right place and you know where she stands – how refreshing and rare that is in politics today.
The recent attack on her reputation is despicable. It reeks of sour grapes and vengeance for unsubstantiated causes. If that person was so adamant about being on the Democrat ticket this fall and asserting he would be the best vote getter, why didn’t he run a primary to get there? That’s the reason why we have primaries. That is what I did.
Rosemary is the real deal and she represents the will of the people she represents and those of the city. She has earned and deserves our respect.
Bill Cox
Republican and
Councilman – First Ward
Bill, Great post.
Bill,
Great post.
Bill great post...Rosemary
Bill great post...Rosemary does a great job,just the fact that she wouldn't tell on the other employees tells me what a stand up person she is...She will make a great county legislator...
Howard don't take offense at this but why would you even be part of this bull that Mr.Paine tried to pull off.This is something that happened 3 years ago..
Mark, you ask a fair
Mark, you ask a fair question, and one that Billie and I discussed and I discussed with friends.
The fact is, if we ignored this, we get accused of covering up for Rose Mary. And we knew if we published, we risked, as you implied, getting tarred with participating in a smear.
We decided that the real news wasn't what Rose Mary did, but what Tim was doing, and wrote the story accordingly, and judging the the majority of the feedback, our judgment in that regard was correct.
Mr. Cox, what a nice gesture.
Mr. Cox, what a nice gesture. Im sure Rosemary will be moved, and humbled by your post, and the others above. Mr. Pain's actions have backfired miserably on him, but favorably for Rosemary. I am excited for her, and the city of Batavia. I am proud to have her in our midst. Its going to be an exciting year for voters(including me). If and When Rosemary wins this thing, I would love to throw her a well deserved party!
Fair enough Howard,thanks for
Fair enough Howard,thanks for the answer...Isn't this the same Mr.Paine who quit the mall board and then wanted back on..Sounds like he doesn't think before he opens his mouth..
I think Tim Paine owes Rosemary an apologizes....
"I can't tell you how much it
"I can't tell you how much it pisses me off when people say, 'it was just a piece of coffee cake,'" Paine said. "How much will it be next time? Well, it was big enough that Wal-Mart fired her."
Large national retailers routinely terminate employees for even the most petty of infractions. There's no opportunity for appeal and no explanation will suffice. It's simply a zero-tolerance policy.
At that point it was already crystal clear what was being said and what side thebatavian was on.
Interesting quotes to peruse
"Rose Mary broke a store rule and was let go, they took care of it and it was between her and the Store.
"His boss has the right to set rules and Jay had the right to accept the job, rules and pay, or to reject the restrictions and not take the job and the money.
In this case, he agreed to obey the boss’s rules, took the job, accepted the money, then decided to break the rules.."
"Which sounds more negative to you?
Political figure vs political figure is a bit more heated and certainly less forgiving than the political figure vs chain store coffeecake
Why is this?
"..in his new part-time job he is DISCOURAGED from blogging"
"They HAVEN'T banned me from it" (leaving comments on The Batavian)
"..his new employer "wasn't KEEN" on him blogging.."
"Even after AGREEING with his boss' wishes that he NOT post on The Batavian.."
"even after AGREEING with his employer to REFRAIN from exactly that activity"
??????? What did I miss? Somewhere I missed an admission of guilt. Can you be guilty of breaking an almost law? If they made the legal drinking age 18 can a 20yr old be seen as guilty of breaking a past, old, obselete law?
"we [thebatavian] clearly can't knowingly allow elected officials to post under false identities."
Private website rule does not equal store rule?
"and as far as Mr, Paine goes...I wouldn't trust him either. He threw her under the bus nothing would stop him from throwing someone else under there with her."
"we [thebatavian] clearly can't knowingly allow elected officials to post under false identities."
..on a private website, remember. Store rules, remember.
CLEARLY CANNOT? Clearly thebatavian could not sit idle because there were headlines to be had from LEAKING it..story made it all the way down to Albany.
POLITICAL STRATEGERY on a politically dominated news website. Selective ethics.
"Are they going to give him the nod to run, next time, knowing that he's a loaded gun just waiting to go off on one of their own?"
"I told him in the first call was that it would be IN HIS OWN BEST INTEREST to clarify matter given the prevalence of the rumor.
Is this Pulitzer material? I certainly never claimed such. That's your own words."
"But you did break the rules here and you will pay with public embarrassment."
"I can't tell you how much it pisses me off when people say, 'it was just a piece of coffee cake'.."
"we could cue up a crying baby for Mr. Paine"
"Grasso admitted that he made the posts"
"Mr. Pain's actions have backfired miserably on him"
"...thinks Rose Mary Christian is personally responsible for him not being part of the Democratic slate this year."
"Christian has no problem admitting she broke a rule"
"The recent attack on her reputation is despicable"
"She has earned and deserves our respect."
"just the fact that she wouldn't tell on the other employees tells me what a stand up person she is"
"We were alerted by local Democrats"
"Ummm...Seriously"
"She was honest"
"If this was truly a crime, as Tim would like us all to believe, why wasn't she prosecuted?"
"There are other names more descriptive than 'sock puppet'"
"I won't judge, nor will I claim perfection on anyone's part (or my own), but I will say that I am very, very disappointed"
"You're still lying about who you are. At your invitation, I went to your phony My Space site, where it’s clear you continue to make stuff up. You list your address as Byron, here Basom. You still use a phony zip; you’re a “Sock Puppet”."
"Peter's picture above: "Jump to Conclusions" game idea from the movie "Office Space"
"That's questionable on several counts"
"Seriously though, concerns were raised by people who compared writing styles?"
"There's no point of letting it go to waste, regardless of any store policy."
"I CAN NOT STOP LAUGHING !!!!!!"
"Who ever found this out thanks?"
"I just can’t imagine him hiding behind a factious name and saying the things he has said."
"The nation is broke, the state is broke, businesses are failing in Batavia, meanwhile ya'll will be posting about this for the next three days. It's this kind of investigative reporting the keeps "The Batavian" head and shoulders above The Daily News and WBTA."
"Throughout this election season some very important County issues have been brought to the forefront. Let's not get sidetracked by pastry"
"My gosh, this is precious."
"Normally, we don't do such a public post about a person being found using a fake name, but in this case, it involves a public official. That makes it a public matter."
"But it's a good source for news and let's be real, it's damn entertaining. What can I say? I missed it."
"Any lie told, large or small, is a breach of that trust and speaks volumes about the person telling it"
*I'll include the breaking of petty store rules in with the breaking of website rules since taking coffeecake not yours is IMO about a coffeecake crumb MORE
significant
"This whole issue is exactly the sort of political "debate" that turns so many potential voters off. This topic is just a microcosm of the larger political farce. While I agree that character is certainly an issue when choosing a candidate, discussions like this one tend to detract from the bigger picture.
I remember being excited about finally being able to vote when I turned 18 and registered, but now I frequently find myself befuddled when trying to sift through all the rhetoric and garbage bandied about by all political parties and the politicians who seem content to toe the party line.
How disappointing, discouraging, and disgusting."
*****Just to clear this one up while I'm here and have a chance
"It is not [ethically] questionable to deny burying the body after having agreed to do so".
"That's an incorrect metaphor on your part. Jerry denied burying the body after he agreed to stop creating bodies."
It does not matter what you have agreed to do if that agreed upon decision is unethical to begin with.
I'll link to this passage and then post the link at end for the rest as it's good reading
Some political questions are not essentially ethical but a matter of two competing interests, each with a morally legitimate claim. For instance, that cowboy movie classic: Should the land be used by the cattle herders or the sheep herders? There is a kind of partisan politics that an ethicist should eschew, no matter his personal feelings about cows. However, it is his job to point out that the land belongs to the Navajo, and both the cattle and sheep herders should get permission before any grazing takes place. That is where what some call politics is quite properly a subject for ethical scrutiny. An ethics that eschewed such nominally political questions would not be ethics at all, but mere rule-following. It would be the ethics of the slave dealer, advocating that one always be honest about a slave's health and always pay bills promptly. But surely any ethics worth discussing must condemn the slave trade absolutely, not quibble about its business practices.
To sum up my stance
There is no honor among thieves. By definiton of thief.
I don't care what slave trader/thief/fence agree to do with slave/stolen jewels
The ONLY one in the right in these is the one who questions the practice/established code
"Should Wal-Mart fire employees for eating a small piece of damaged inventory that was going into the trash anyway?"
hmmmm
Should thebatavian.com release a members name who is breaking private WEBSITE policy just because that person is an elected official?
THATS MUCH MORE INTERESTING AND JUICY!
Ask yourself this dumb question
Should a WEBSITE admin. release the password of a popes login if that pope chose something seemingly contradictory to their position
XXDEvIlWORshIPPerXX
Young Boys
LIE CHEAT STEAL BABY
Certainly the public would want to know such things
It would seem important
Would we be jumping to conclusions in doing so?
Is it anyones business? Is it 5th amendment protected? Would it be seen as an illegal search? Hacking? Invasion of privacy?
"But we've made an decision that as a matter of ethics.."
"I look at this as a house cleaning post -- being honest with readers about activity on the site we believe is wrong and involving an elected official"
"I'll leave it to others to judge how important this issue is."
How thoughtful, eh? Many would tear up the constitution just to hear a celebrities intimate phone conversations and you're going to throw the tapes out there before even making the public think about whether they should listen or not
That link I promised
http://www.mindfully.org/Sustainability/Politics-Of-Ethics8apr02.htm
I'm done, Howard.
It would be nice to see this last for a bit before it gets deleted, though
I think if you read it and take the necessary time to fill in blanks you'd see I've made SOME valid points, at least. I don't have to write a single word of my own in doing so
I highly doubt I'm completely wrong.
It's all disgusting. Everyone bickering as though they come from truly opposing viewpoints
It's all the same but people CHOOSE their lines believing their lines are rightly drawn even though they've in the past scratched others into the sand that now invisibly entangle them
John Stevens, Was there a
John Stevens,
Was there a point here? It was a bit long and jumped around a little.
It sounded a little like a guy named "Laz' who used to on this site.
My doctor prescribed visits
My doctor prescribed visits to Walmart to boost my self-esteem. What percentage of Walmart patrons wear sweatpants while shopping? It seems like 75-80%.
John, if there's a point to
John, if there's a point to that long, rambling, incoherent post, it escapes me. No need to delete it, because nobody is going to take the time to read it and try to decipher it, not even me. I honestly haven't a clue what you're trying to say except somehow criticize me or The Batavian, but I really don't get the point. For what or why, I haven't a clue.
John Stevens, I'm not
John Stevens, I'm not deleting your comment because it makes no sense.
But I'm blocking your account because your real name isn't John Stevens and you're not from Utica. You're posting from a local Time Warner account.
i love small town
i love small town politics...thinks its all big town politics...lmao
Chris I agree qwith you on
Chris I agree qwith you on the trash thing but...when it's in the dumpster its trash and when its in the building its merchandise. Which means unless it was paid for.. it was stolen ....
I understand what you're
I understand what you're saying about the trash thing but it wasn't in the dumpster in which case it becomes trash. It was in the building to be put in the trash which I'm assuming it was in a bin or something in a designated area. Which when the inventory people come and there is merchandise in that area it still gets inventoried. Which makes it merchandise. Which means taking it is stealing.
Sue, Just out of curiosity,
Sue,
Just out of curiosity, after it is scanned and taken off the inventory (which was the case) but just hasn't hit the dumpster yet, is it still considered viable merchandise for Wal-Mart?
I hate belaboring this point, but just need clarification from a retail point of view.
I'm only trying to explain
I'm only trying to explain why companies do what they do. I'm not saying it's right or wrong I'm just saying this is how it is and what their mentality about it is.
I do believe that taking something that doesn't belong to you or something you didn't pay for is stealing. Chris if you don't agree with that. Take it up with my mother she's the one who taught me right from wrong.
As a manager once I scanned something or wrote it off I would bag it or box it and personally put it in the dumpster. After that point. If someone wants to take it out of the dumpster..more power to them.
Susan, Rose Mary admited she
Susan,
Rose Mary admited she broke a rule (in 2006) and paid the price. This is not the issue.
The issue is that Tim Paine says this is a personal issue; a getting even, for him not being on the ballot this year and thinks its Rose Mary's fault. Pure and simple revenage.
John, if you read my earlier
John, if you read my earlier posts I understand that Tim Paine is a whiney jerk. That goes without saying. He made himself look like a complete and total Cry baby. I said before and I'll say it again I think Rose Mary did the stand up thing by sending the email in the first place. I think she's pretty cool.
mayor of batavia please help
mayor of batavia please help us
Posted by Susan Kennelly on
Posted by Susan Kennelly on October 22, 2009 - 11:23am
Chris if you don't agree with that. Take it up with my mother she's the one who taught me right from wrong.
lol, my princess is pointing fingers!
Spend a day on the computer doing a newsletter and preparing for a meeting and look what one finds when finally taking a break.
Okay, it is wrong to steal, it's wrong to go against store policy. But this coffee cake was destined for the trash. You were also taught not to waste food and to take the time to listen to the other side before making a judgement call.
This is the most phenomenal
This is the most phenomenal piece of electoral disclosure, ever.
First, they came for the coffee cake. But I didn't speak up, because I don't like coffee cake.
/Niemoeller
I would like to know what
I would like to know what kind/brand coffee cake that was so I can buy some and try it out. Its seems like the whole fiasco got lost on the coffee cake itself. I just hope it wasnt Lil debbie.......