Looks like no one wants to comment on this so I will break the ice. I voted no that there will always be people who dont like those who seem different.
It's a sad commentary on today's society but to be honest in every "race" there seems to be a majority of knuckleheads that perpetuate the ongoing cycle of racism.
I'm not (at the moment anyway) gonna try to explain the nuances but we all get it. I'll go to the typical one that I have seen and witnessed in my years.
The biggest one is the black/white divide. I have seen ghetto mentality blacks use the system be it in school, in the workforce or anywhere else use the race card to do as little work for as much money as possible. If you try to hold them to the same standard then they cry racism and even litigate to get their way.
But in all fairness there are whites who use this very behavior pattern to excuse their own laziness and sloth saying why should I bother look what they get away with. Then they are fired or move on because they then feel vicitimized, and they treat every black man the same from that point on.
Its time for us to deal with people on their individual merits and actions. We are all people and while the "races" seem to have certain actions or behaviors that are common among them. The only fair way is to treat everyone with a clean slate, judge them over time based on their words and deeds, not preconcieved expectations.
In my supervisory career I have had every kind of racial class work for me and with me. Sad to say some do fall into this stereotype, but then they manipulate the "system" is such a way that when their actions endanger their job....affirmative action and racism come into play. Its just a ridiculous system that has thrown the balance off in neighborhoods, workplaces and even in the Govt.
I see no way of eliminating this it's just a thing that is, like govt being screwed up, or grass being green or the sky being blue. Maybe someday we can lay back at the end of a day on nice kentucky bluegrass, look at a blood red sky at sunset and say remember when..... Common sense is the most uncommon thing in exsistance. If it was common think of how much better life would be.
Racism is not just an American issue, it's prevalent world wide. And I guarantee you that the dark haired cave man didn't like or trust the red headed caveman.
Racism is less about verifying a racial-role in playing the system, more about perceiving that only certain racial/ethnic groups are getting away with it. 2/3 of the U.S. population (White) claiming to be unfairly disadvantaged by the racial/ethnic groups comprising the balance of the population is improbable. Realization that (according to the 2006 U. S. Bureau of Census Report) White households ($50,673) earn on average $20,000 more than either Blacks ($31,969) or Hispanics ($37,781) further erodes the case of those who claim the race card is a gold card.
If one tabulates all tax-funded entitlements, welfare recipient demographics break down: 61% White, 33% Black. It is difficult to envision that in such a split, incidence of fraud would be greater on the leaner side of the equation.
CM it seems that the data kinda balances out there.....
On one hand you state that the race card is NOT a gold card as white households earn on average 20,000 more than blacks or hispanics.
But then you say the data shows that welfare recipients are 61% white and 33% black.
Why dont we compare this to the population of the us....
67% white, 15% Latino, 12% Black and 4% Asian and 1% Native amreican. So things look fairly normal or what would be expected.
Regardless of what thing are supposed to be like....there is the everyday reality. This is what enforces the racial stereotypes. Sure in an executive setting your not gonna see the typical ghetto black attitude because in that environment it's not only not appropriate but it doesnt allow for achievement or even keeping the status quo so it wont exsist as much there.
Go to the blue collar world however with laborers and such it's much more pronounced.
Its my view CM that people like you (this is a generalization CM not meant as personal) who sit and quote stats and data, and say things like "difficult to envison" or that things are "improbable" are the ones who work in a good environment, live in a fairly nice neighborhood, and dont have to deal much with the larger poorer neighborhoods, or struggle with the lower paying jobs, and dont see the reality.
As more and more people lose their careers and jobs and are forced to re-enter the workforce in lower paying labor intensive jobs, your gonna see a culture shock, and a harsh dose of reality as what things are really like aren't the way they are supposed to be.
Kyle, you are correct in assuming I live in a community that would not be categorized as urban. I have, however, lived and worked in other situations. I am not a prisoner of my house.
Regardless, the reason empirical research is conducted is to broaden our scope on subjects we cannot authenticate with limited and/or firsthand experience.
We can all offer individual and isolated cases of this, that and the other thing. We lose our credibility when we apply individual cases to generalizations and wide characterization of groups of people. Claiming to know two people who wear green shirts who bought Ferraris does not qualify the assumption that all people who wear green shirts are likely to buy Ferraris.
...Not that it makes any difference. I have always worked 'blue collar' jobs. Despite my degree in communications, I have been an electrician, worked in factories, worked construction and even bar-tended. I am currently employed as a technician manufacturing blood products.
I just deleted a comment from somebody whom I don't believe was using a real name.
There was no problem with the comment, per se, but it could be viewed and controversial and the name being used on the account is the same as another person who lives in Genesee County and is known by many people.
I just wanted to mainly be clear the content of the comment was not a problem, just that the user I don't believe was using a real name (for reasons I won't get into) and the name being used could be confused for somebody I'm pretty sure would not want to be confused with the opinion expressed.
Part of Dr. King's dream was to reach a point at which individuals are judged "based on the content of their character, and not on the color of their skin."
Today we are not allowed to do that. Quotas (yes, CM, they exist) in the name of "affirmative" action, political correctness, and progressive/liberal entitlements will not allow us to do so.
Why do I have to state that I am a white male on job applications? Why do civil service tests discriminate against me? Why do entitlement programs promote total and long term dependence on the system? Why will just about everyone who reads this refuse to ride with me late at night through the Joseph Ave / Clinton Ave neighborhoods without serious second thoughts?
No. Racism is not dead on the part of ANY race. We just aren't allowed to HONESTLY talk about it.
C.M...You manufacture blood products? We know your not a racist, cause most people would not want to support the vampire community, but you look past thier white pastey skin, thier violent behavoir,and how they always say "blah" after every sentence. I commend you for that :)
Dan: Easier to obtain and more extensive entitlements remove motivation to better one's lot in life through education and hard work. Minorities, represent a larger share of recipients when compared to their percentages of the general population. It is my contention that liberal and progressive politicians need to keep these recipients "on the dole" in order to retain their vote. If these voters became self sufficient and productive taxpayers, they may, after all, become republicans.
Bea, where did you go to school in my old neighborhood?
Side rant: A woman we know, on welfare, with four kids, that has not worked in years, was bragging today. Her tax "REFUND" will be at H&R Block tomorrow - about $3200.00. She can't wait to hop in her taxpayer bought car to pick up her "refund" and head to the rez to buy a case of cigarettes. Not a carton - a case. Your tax dollars at work, friends.
I was one of the 88 that voted "Yes". I can't see the generations coming after mine paying much attention to color and race when people of color will make up more and more of our future population. I guess I just keep hoping that we will evolve into a more accepting people.
Lorie,
As much as I would like to agree with you, I'm afraid I couldn't vote, 'yes'.
Until our civilization reaches a point where parents stop handing down their prejudices to their children then there will always be bigots in this world.
I voted yes. I think I've come across families that are progressively less prejudicial through the generations.
There's still racism, and some of it quite subtle, but I feel like it's diminished some just in my own lifetime.
There's still extreme haters out there -- the white supremacist groups and what not -- but they don't get a lot of traction.
Part of the obligation of being human is to use our intelligence to overcome base instincts and behave toward one another in kind and respectful ways, so I don't think impulses toward tribalism (saying it's natural to dislike people just because they're different) is really an excuse for continuing racism. Tolerance, when practiced well, is one of the higher human virtues.
Bob, I read a little bit of Lonsberry's piece. I think his Latino minority take is another false equivalent. There might not have been a status given to the Irish immigrants and Italian immigrants but they certainly suffered from racism and discrimination as they entered this country. I think Latinos are acclimating probably the same way. The kids that I've had over the years speak perfect English. If I didn't see that their skin was a little darker and they had names that were more from their culture I would never even know that they were fairly new to this country.
I was in plenty of 2nd generation Italian homes when I was a kid growing up and heard the first generation speaking all in Italian.
We haven't changed all that much, but I do see a glimmer of hope with this next generation.
Lorie, with all due respect, the situations are entirely different. Those late 19th/early 20th century immigrants came here with a sponsor, to assimilate to our culture and to learn English as a primary language. I contend the majority of Latin immigrants have no desire to learn English as a primary language and have no intention of "melting" into the American pot. I lived in the desert southwest for many years, so I've seen this firsthand. I have nothing against immigration, as that is what our nation was built upon. I do have an issue with illegal immigration. Not racist, just realist.
Bud, through my life, I've dealt with a lot of first generation Mexican immigrants, both legal and illegal.
I think the situation is pretty complex.
There are those among the illegals who come here primarily to earn money to send back to Mexico. They have no real interest in assimilating, because they just see America as a place to work, not a place to aspire to be.
There are also those who come here because they want to build a new life for themselves and their families, and they do want to assimilate.
Then there are those who wind up her to work and end up staying and their kids do assimilate.
One roadblock to assimilation is our immigration policies that make it too hard for workers to cross the border. By forcing so many workers with no choice but to cross illegally to find work, we essential ensure they can only live in a ghetto type environment, separated nearly completely from the wider culture. If they are too easily spotted, they risk arrest and deportation, so they cloister themselves away in their groups as much as possible.
This doesn't strike me as a good thing for them or us.
That said, I LOVE Mexican culture -- the food, the music, the art, that attitudes of the good people. Having that as part of the American culture I grew up in I think has been a boon to my life. Every culture makes a positive contribution to the American melting pot, and I welcome Mexicans in as much as Italians, Irish or Chinese.
We just need a sensible immigration policy that meets the needs for business owners and workers.
Lonsberry piece lost me with the "latinos are a minority because they want to be".
"Because they want to be", is a right wing banner for anyone they determine offensive.
People are poor "because they want to be".
People are unemployed "because they want to be".
It is too broad a statement.
As far as other ethnic groups, here in our country, there used to be signs that stated the Irish or Italians need not apply for jobs. Sponsor or not, there was discrimination.
It wasn't that long ago when a certain lake community, here in Genesee County, refused to allow membership to Italians. When they needed an infusion of money, they finally opened the doors to a group they considered beneath them.
It was an opinion, Jeremiah. It is why I discounted that article. Like it or not, "because they want to be..." is not something you hear coming from the left.
Sorry, if you were offended.
Bob,
A vendor came into the shop today and commented that I sure get beat up on this site. Since I didn't have access to the internet at that time, I had no idea why that would be said.
Why would I use a liberal filter to justify that photograph?
I wasn't there. I had no knowledge of why the statue was covered until you posted the picture. (they said it was to use their backdrop). Are you suggesting that I am against George Washington?
Anyone who really knows me will tell you that I certainly have nothing against our first president.
Give me a break. Find something with substance to throw at me.
I was in no way insinuating that you have anything against our first president.
What I AM saying that you often find it so easy to sling mud at us conservatives (i.e. banner comment above) and seem to favor *all* liberal causes - regardless of facts or logic. In this particular case, let me reiterate: a picture is worth a thousand words. What amazes me is that as an intelligent person, you can be so blinded by your liberalism that you are sometimes oblivious to the obvious. What would the NATIONAL (and your) reaction be if I covered an MLK statue while holding a conservative rally?
I respectfully suggest, Bea, that if you don't care for a little spirited ribbing once in a while you refrain from doing same.
Bob,
Respectively, I don't recall addressing you by name (as you did me).
I stated an opinion about something on aother site.
Apparently, that was enough to set you off.
I didn't, and I repeat didn't, address it to you or anyone else.
Most likely, if you covered a statue of MLK, I probably wouldn't even notice unless it was brought to my attention as you did this. It would be a non issue.
Find something better, Bob.
Looks like no one wants to
Looks like no one wants to comment on this so I will break the ice. I voted no that there will always be people who dont like those who seem different.
It's a sad commentary on today's society but to be honest in every "race" there seems to be a majority of knuckleheads that perpetuate the ongoing cycle of racism.
I'm not (at the moment anyway) gonna try to explain the nuances but we all get it. I'll go to the typical one that I have seen and witnessed in my years.
The biggest one is the black/white divide. I have seen ghetto mentality blacks use the system be it in school, in the workforce or anywhere else use the race card to do as little work for as much money as possible. If you try to hold them to the same standard then they cry racism and even litigate to get their way.
But in all fairness there are whites who use this very behavior pattern to excuse their own laziness and sloth saying why should I bother look what they get away with. Then they are fired or move on because they then feel vicitimized, and they treat every black man the same from that point on.
Its time for us to deal with people on their individual merits and actions. We are all people and while the "races" seem to have certain actions or behaviors that are common among them. The only fair way is to treat everyone with a clean slate, judge them over time based on their words and deeds, not preconcieved expectations.
In my supervisory career I have had every kind of racial class work for me and with me. Sad to say some do fall into this stereotype, but then they manipulate the "system" is such a way that when their actions endanger their job....affirmative action and racism come into play. Its just a ridiculous system that has thrown the balance off in neighborhoods, workplaces and even in the Govt.
I see no way of eliminating this it's just a thing that is, like govt being screwed up, or grass being green or the sky being blue. Maybe someday we can lay back at the end of a day on nice kentucky bluegrass, look at a blood red sky at sunset and say remember when..... Common sense is the most uncommon thing in exsistance. If it was common think of how much better life would be.
Racism is not just an
Racism is not just an American issue, it's prevalent world wide. And I guarantee you that the dark haired cave man didn't like or trust the red headed caveman.
(No subject)
[video:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PbUtL_0vAJk]
Racism is less about
Racism is less about verifying a racial-role in playing the system, more about perceiving that only certain racial/ethnic groups are getting away with it. 2/3 of the U.S. population (White) claiming to be unfairly disadvantaged by the racial/ethnic groups comprising the balance of the population is improbable. Realization that (according to the 2006 U. S. Bureau of Census Report) White households ($50,673) earn on average $20,000 more than either Blacks ($31,969) or Hispanics ($37,781) further erodes the case of those who claim the race card is a gold card.
If one tabulates all tax-funded entitlements, welfare recipient demographics break down: 61% White, 33% Black. It is difficult to envision that in such a split, incidence of fraud would be greater on the leaner side of the equation.
CM it seems that the data
CM it seems that the data kinda balances out there.....
On one hand you state that the race card is NOT a gold card as white households earn on average 20,000 more than blacks or hispanics.
But then you say the data shows that welfare recipients are 61% white and 33% black.
Why dont we compare this to the population of the us....
67% white, 15% Latino, 12% Black and 4% Asian and 1% Native amreican. So things look fairly normal or what would be expected.
Regardless of what thing are supposed to be like....there is the everyday reality. This is what enforces the racial stereotypes. Sure in an executive setting your not gonna see the typical ghetto black attitude because in that environment it's not only not appropriate but it doesnt allow for achievement or even keeping the status quo so it wont exsist as much there.
Go to the blue collar world however with laborers and such it's much more pronounced.
Its my view CM that people like you (this is a generalization CM not meant as personal) who sit and quote stats and data, and say things like "difficult to envison" or that things are "improbable" are the ones who work in a good environment, live in a fairly nice neighborhood, and dont have to deal much with the larger poorer neighborhoods, or struggle with the lower paying jobs, and dont see the reality.
As more and more people lose their careers and jobs and are forced to re-enter the workforce in lower paying labor intensive jobs, your gonna see a culture shock, and a harsh dose of reality as what things are really like aren't the way they are supposed to be.
Kyle, you are correct in
Kyle, you are correct in assuming I live in a community that would not be categorized as urban. I have, however, lived and worked in other situations. I am not a prisoner of my house.
Regardless, the reason empirical research is conducted is to broaden our scope on subjects we cannot authenticate with limited and/or firsthand experience.
We can all offer individual and isolated cases of this, that and the other thing. We lose our credibility when we apply individual cases to generalizations and wide characterization of groups of people. Claiming to know two people who wear green shirts who bought Ferraris does not qualify the assumption that all people who wear green shirts are likely to buy Ferraris.
...Not that it makes any
...Not that it makes any difference. I have always worked 'blue collar' jobs. Despite my degree in communications, I have been an electrician, worked in factories, worked construction and even bar-tended. I am currently employed as a technician manufacturing blood products.
See where assumptions will get you...
I just deleted a comment from
I just deleted a comment from somebody whom I don't believe was using a real name.
There was no problem with the comment, per se, but it could be viewed and controversial and the name being used on the account is the same as another person who lives in Genesee County and is known by many people.
I just wanted to mainly be clear the content of the comment was not a problem, just that the user I don't believe was using a real name (for reasons I won't get into) and the name being used could be confused for somebody I'm pretty sure would not want to be confused with the opinion expressed.
Part of Dr. King's dream was
Part of Dr. King's dream was to reach a point at which individuals are judged "based on the content of their character, and not on the color of their skin."
Today we are not allowed to do that. Quotas (yes, CM, they exist) in the name of "affirmative" action, political correctness, and progressive/liberal entitlements will not allow us to do so.
Why do I have to state that I am a white male on job applications? Why do civil service tests discriminate against me? Why do entitlement programs promote total and long term dependence on the system? Why will just about everyone who reads this refuse to ride with me late at night through the Joseph Ave / Clinton Ave neighborhoods without serious second thoughts?
No. Racism is not dead on the part of ANY race. We just aren't allowed to HONESTLY talk about it.
C.M...You manufacture blood
C.M...You manufacture blood products? We know your not a racist, cause most people would not want to support the vampire community, but you look past thier white pastey skin, thier violent behavoir,and how they always say "blah" after every sentence. I commend you for that :)
Bob - "Why do entitlement
Bob - "Why do entitlement programs promote total and long term dependence on the system?"
At what point does that relate to racism?
Bob, I drove to the Joesph
Bob, I drove to the Joesph Ave/Clinton Ave. district from my job, in Buffalo, in order to attend night classes two nights a week.
Dan: Easier to obtain and
Dan: Easier to obtain and more extensive entitlements remove motivation to better one's lot in life through education and hard work. Minorities, represent a larger share of recipients when compared to their percentages of the general population. It is my contention that liberal and progressive politicians need to keep these recipients "on the dole" in order to retain their vote. If these voters became self sufficient and productive taxpayers, they may, after all, become republicans.
Bea, where did you go to school in my old neighborhood?
Side rant: A woman we know, on welfare, with four kids, that has not worked in years, was bragging today. Her tax "REFUND" will be at H&R Block tomorrow - about $3200.00. She can't wait to hop in her taxpayer bought car to pick up her "refund" and head to the rez to buy a case of cigarettes. Not a carton - a case. Your tax dollars at work, friends.
I was one of the 88 that
I was one of the 88 that voted "Yes". I can't see the generations coming after mine paying much attention to color and race when people of color will make up more and more of our future population. I guess I just keep hoping that we will evolve into a more accepting people.
http://lonsberry.com/writings
http://lonsberry.com/writings.cfm
Lorie, As much as I would
Lorie,
As much as I would like to agree with you, I'm afraid I couldn't vote, 'yes'.
Until our civilization reaches a point where parents stop handing down their prejudices to their children then there will always be bigots in this world.
Bea, You're absolutely
Bea,
You're absolutely correct.
I voted yes. I think I've
I voted yes. I think I've come across families that are progressively less prejudicial through the generations.
There's still racism, and some of it quite subtle, but I feel like it's diminished some just in my own lifetime.
There's still extreme haters out there -- the white supremacist groups and what not -- but they don't get a lot of traction.
Part of the obligation of being human is to use our intelligence to overcome base instincts and behave toward one another in kind and respectful ways, so I don't think impulses toward tribalism (saying it's natural to dislike people just because they're different) is really an excuse for continuing racism. Tolerance, when practiced well, is one of the higher human virtues.
Bob, I read a little bit of
Bob, I read a little bit of Lonsberry's piece. I think his Latino minority take is another false equivalent. There might not have been a status given to the Irish immigrants and Italian immigrants but they certainly suffered from racism and discrimination as they entered this country. I think Latinos are acclimating probably the same way. The kids that I've had over the years speak perfect English. If I didn't see that their skin was a little darker and they had names that were more from their culture I would never even know that they were fairly new to this country.
I was in plenty of 2nd generation Italian homes when I was a kid growing up and heard the first generation speaking all in Italian.
We haven't changed all that much, but I do see a glimmer of hope with this next generation.
Lorie, with all due respect,
Lorie, with all due respect, the situations are entirely different. Those late 19th/early 20th century immigrants came here with a sponsor, to assimilate to our culture and to learn English as a primary language. I contend the majority of Latin immigrants have no desire to learn English as a primary language and have no intention of "melting" into the American pot. I lived in the desert southwest for many years, so I've seen this firsthand. I have nothing against immigration, as that is what our nation was built upon. I do have an issue with illegal immigration. Not racist, just realist.
Bud, through my life, I've
Bud, through my life, I've dealt with a lot of first generation Mexican immigrants, both legal and illegal.
I think the situation is pretty complex.
There are those among the illegals who come here primarily to earn money to send back to Mexico. They have no real interest in assimilating, because they just see America as a place to work, not a place to aspire to be.
There are also those who come here because they want to build a new life for themselves and their families, and they do want to assimilate.
Then there are those who wind up her to work and end up staying and their kids do assimilate.
One roadblock to assimilation is our immigration policies that make it too hard for workers to cross the border. By forcing so many workers with no choice but to cross illegally to find work, we essential ensure they can only live in a ghetto type environment, separated nearly completely from the wider culture. If they are too easily spotted, they risk arrest and deportation, so they cloister themselves away in their groups as much as possible.
This doesn't strike me as a good thing for them or us.
That said, I LOVE Mexican culture -- the food, the music, the art, that attitudes of the good people. Having that as part of the American culture I grew up in I think has been a boon to my life. Every culture makes a positive contribution to the American melting pot, and I welcome Mexicans in as much as Italians, Irish or Chinese.
We just need a sensible immigration policy that meets the needs for business owners and workers.
Lonsberry piece lost me with
Lonsberry piece lost me with the "latinos are a minority because they want to be".
"Because they want to be", is a right wing banner for anyone they determine offensive.
People are poor "because they want to be".
People are unemployed "because they want to be".
It is too broad a statement.
As far as other ethnic groups, here in our country, there used to be signs that stated the Irish or Italians need not apply for jobs. Sponsor or not, there was discrimination.
It wasn't that long ago when a certain lake community, here in Genesee County, refused to allow membership to Italians. When they needed an infusion of money, they finally opened the doors to a group they considered beneath them.
Way to go Bea, way to turn
Way to go Bea, way to turn this into right v. left.
It was an opinion, Jeremiah.
It was an opinion, Jeremiah. It is why I discounted that article. Like it or not, "because they want to be..." is not something you hear coming from the left.
Sorry, if you were offended.
Bea? Please demonstrate your
Bea? Please demonstrate your unparalleled use of liberal filters to justify this.
http://www.theblaze.com/stories/south-carolina-naacp-shields-audience-f…
A picture is worth a thousand words.....
Bob, A vendor came into the
Bob,
A vendor came into the shop today and commented that I sure get beat up on this site. Since I didn't have access to the internet at that time, I had no idea why that would be said.
Why would I use a liberal filter to justify that photograph?
I wasn't there. I had no knowledge of why the statue was covered until you posted the picture. (they said it was to use their backdrop). Are you suggesting that I am against George Washington?
Anyone who really knows me will tell you that I certainly have nothing against our first president.
Give me a break. Find something with substance to throw at me.
I was in no way insinuating
I was in no way insinuating that you have anything against our first president.
What I AM saying that you often find it so easy to sling mud at us conservatives (i.e. banner comment above) and seem to favor *all* liberal causes - regardless of facts or logic. In this particular case, let me reiterate: a picture is worth a thousand words. What amazes me is that as an intelligent person, you can be so blinded by your liberalism that you are sometimes oblivious to the obvious. What would the NATIONAL (and your) reaction be if I covered an MLK statue while holding a conservative rally?
I respectfully suggest, Bea, that if you don't care for a little spirited ribbing once in a while you refrain from doing same.
Bob, Respectively, I don't
Bob,
Respectively, I don't recall addressing you by name (as you did me).
I stated an opinion about something on aother site.
Apparently, that was enough to set you off.
I didn't, and I repeat didn't, address it to you or anyone else.
Most likely, if you covered a statue of MLK, I probably wouldn't even notice unless it was brought to my attention as you did this. It would be a non issue.
Find something better, Bob.
Thank you so much for proving
Thank you so much for proving my point.