Sales tax Is a levy place upon the consumer by the State and Local governments. If an on line company is not headquartered in that State, they should not be burden with the job of collecting this tax. All it does is increase fhe cost of the goods to the buyer.
Have to disagree with you on this one Howard. Any local store has the opportunity to market and ship their product nation wide. All this tax would do is create another bureaucracy to oversee the collection of the taxes.
Howard....."unfair"? what in this world is fair? this issue isn't about fairness, it's about the government taking more money from the people. the people who are so over taxed that they can't put anything into a savings account for their future.
As`with most things, there's two sides to this question.
I understand local retailers' side. They put their heart and soul (and money) into their businesses. Brick & mortar costs money, and they most likely also paid sales taxes on that, too. On top of the money they paid for their 'store', they have to remit sales tax to the state (and local gov't) for each sales transaction. Otherwise, they aren't allowed to do business in that state.
Currently, according to http://www.dailyfinance.com/2013/05/05/the-5-states-with-no-sales-tax/ there are 5 states that impose no state sales tax.
So, if you live in close proximity to one of those (or one with a lower tax-rate than your state), should your state post troopers at the border, to confiscate any goods you bought 'across the border'? And, just because I happen to be entering a state WITH a sales tax, would I have to prove I didn't purchase the item in an adjoining state? Just wondering how this would all work.
Or, would this taxing of goods purchased online work only because there would be a 'trail' proving you got something from another state?
And, would this only apply to 'hard goods'? If I buy a song online, but I only receive a 'download' of it, should I pay a tax? Afterall, I don't think I can walk into Roxy's and say, "No, I don't want a physical CD. Just give me a download of such-and-such."
Personally, I think online stores SHOULD have to pay the sales tax of the state they're sending their product to (for the same reason Howard alluded to).
Guess we'll just have to let the gov't settle this question. And, as we all know, the gov't will always do the right thing!
This isn't an issue about whether we're taxed too much, or whether there should be sales tax at all, or taxes in general.
It's about protecting locally owned businesses, the life blood of any local community.
To say they can just sell online too is pure hogwash and shows a any real understanding of how business works. Further, if a Batavia business sells online, it MUST collect NYS sales tax, even if the sale is out-of-state, so the suggestion doesn't fly even for sales that go to states that don't collect sales tax.
First, right from the NYS Dept. of Taxation. http://www.tax.ny.gov/bus/st/sales_tax_rates.htm
"Sales delivered outside New York State are exempt from tax."
And yes any local business has the opportunity to sell on line. Whether they chose to go through the expense and hassle is another item altogether.
And you're right , after all these years I still don't understand business :-)
Howard, I may not know how business works, but I do know how a consumer works..
let me see if I'm on the same page as you....
if I purchase a hundred dollars worth of goods on line and I pay a sales tax equal to a local sales tax, this will protect the local business. is that what you are telling me? if it is, please explain.
I will go first, the local business still has his product to sell....the only thing I see accomplished is the state government now has more of my money in their pocket.
Even if online sales were required to collect sales tax, people who shop online will continue to do so rather than go out and shop local. As much as I support local businesses and support them when I'm able to, on average online vendors have less overhead and move a high volume of product, equating to a lower price tag on the item I'm buying. If this difference is only a few dollars, I'll shop local. But often times this difference is rather large, and like most people today, money is tight for me. If I can get an item significantly cheaper online (regardless of sales tax) then I'm going to.
Beyond the price difference, you need to consider that people in America today are just plain lazy. I'm willing to bet that a fairly large number of consumers would still buy an item online simply for convenience, even if the price was the exact same (or even slightly higher online.).
Whether online sales collect tax or not, those that shop online instead of local will continue to do so. That being said, we're taxed enough. I vote that they should not collect sales tax simply for that reason.
Also, technically as a consumer anything that you buy online from out of state is legally supposed to be reported on your taxes, and you are responsible for paying the sales tax at that time. Nobody actually does it, but we're all legally supposed to.
I don't think people shop on line just because there is no sales tax..It is easy to go on line and shop.That is why people buy on line..It will not generate any new business for local business,New York state has been taxing on line sales allready.If i buy something on line and i am charged sales tax does genessee county get any of that sales tax.This isn't about leveling any playing field for small local business.Its the big box stores who want the sales tax.They are the ones who suffer from companies like Amazon who aren't located in New York State .Its WalMart who wants this to get us to buy on line from them and not Amazon.Walmart has stores in every state where as Amazon doesn't have any stores in all states.Gives Amazon an edge over WalMart.
Isn't it about choice? The choice to buy something around the corner and have it immediately or mail order it and wait. The choice to pay shipping, or the gas to go get it. The choice to pay tax on an item or take advantage of one of the few consumer loopholes still existing? I like choices.
Mark, if you had checked, you would have discovered that Amazon does charge an 8% sales tax in NYS. This is the reason I buy very few items from Amazon.com. I buy mostly from TigerDirect; Florida or New Egg; California.
There are hundreds of tax jurisdictions in this country, if not thousands between states, counties, and cities. There are services (reasonably priced ones, at that) to assist the small online retailer should they need to collect sales taxes. And as Howard noted, it is a fairness issue when b&m retailers have to tack on sales tax while some online retailers do not - regardless of whether someone believes the tax is excessive,
Realistically, most if not all states have a Use Tax that serves a similar purpose as a sales tax, but it is levied on items purchased outside of the state (online/catalog sales). Those purchases are to be self-reported and included on your state income tax returns as Rex noted. Sure, NYS may not require tax be collected for items sold out of state, but the recipient needs to report it and pay use taxes on it in their own state.
Now, to simplify things make the online sales tax a straight 5 or 6%, split evenly between the buying and selling location. May not be the same charged locally, but it would take away much of the need for any new bureaucracy, as well as possibly the need for any services needed now to track the multitude of jurisdictions.
Full stop, please. I own a small brick and mortar store. I sell on the internet as well as in my store. Let me make a few points which seem to elude the money grubbing politicians who see everything and everybody as a cow that needs milking.
The idea of sales tax on all sales appeals to those who don't really understand the dynamics of the market. You really want to hurt small business? Pass a law requiring sales tax collection on all internet sales. Small business owners who complain about internet sales aren't thinking the whole thing through. Or aren't taking advantage of its opportunities.
First, the sales tax on a sale and the shipping costs for an out of state internet sale are balancing factors. If I had to charge sales tax in addition to shipping on an internet sale I could not be competitive with bigger retailers that have thinner margins than I do because of their volume of sales.
Second, if I had to collect sales tax on sales to other states and counties, I would have to have some system to determine the rates in each and every county and city in the country and the ability to apply it to every sale. The expense of which would be greater than my profit from these sales and so I would have to stop selling on line. So would a whole lot of others. Do you smell that? It's choice evaporating.
Third, I purchase significant numbers of low volume items from many retailers and wholesalers all over the country for resale to my customers. If I have to submit a sales tax exempt form to each of these vendors in order to not be taxed on resold items I would spend way more time than it would be worth to provide these special order items to my customers.
I can get you a $3 item for three dollars plus tax from my normal wholesalers. Alternatively, you can pay $3 for the item and $12 to get it to your door. Who has the advantage there?
I can get you a $300 item for three hundred dollars plus tax. If you have a problem with it I can help you face to face. I can help you get it right with the manufacturer. Who has the advantage there?
The idea that untaxed internet sales are the bane of small business is pining for the buggy whip industry. Our strengths are numerous. But the most important strength we have is that people WANT to do business with us. Because we are right there. We are available. You can find us right there in our store.
I have told numerous customers that the item they want is available at less than I can get it for from an online retailer such as Amazon. My experience is that about half will tell me to get it for them at my price. And a significant number of the other half keep coming back and buying things from me.
Go ahead. Kill another golden goose if it suits you. Our modern intelligentsia is remarkably good at doing just that. Just don't expect me to cheer on another diminution of the free market and freedom of choice.
I know a fair number of small, locally owned Brick & Mortar business owners throughout the region that have always relied on internet sales as part of their business plan. A recent example; I had a conversation about three weeks ago to discuss some cross-promotion ideas with the owner of "Jesse's Toy Box" in Gowanda, NY. While we were talking he told me that internet sales account for 80% of his business and without it he would not be able to keep the doors open for on site retail sales.
Sales tax Is a levy place
Sales tax Is a levy place upon the consumer by the State and Local governments. If an on line company is not headquartered in that State, they should not be burden with the job of collecting this tax. All it does is increase fhe cost of the goods to the buyer.
No, what it really does is
No, what it really does is create an unfair competitive advantage for online stores vs. locally owned stores.
Have to disagree with you on
Have to disagree with you on this one Howard. Any local store has the opportunity to market and ship their product nation wide. All this tax would do is create another bureaucracy to oversee the collection of the taxes.
Howard....."unfair"? what in
Howard....."unfair"? what in this world is fair? this issue isn't about fairness, it's about the government taking more money from the people. the people who are so over taxed that they can't put anything into a savings account for their future.
As`with most things, there's
As`with most things, there's two sides to this question.
I understand local retailers' side. They put their heart and soul (and money) into their businesses. Brick & mortar costs money, and they most likely also paid sales taxes on that, too. On top of the money they paid for their 'store', they have to remit sales tax to the state (and local gov't) for each sales transaction. Otherwise, they aren't allowed to do business in that state.
Currently, according to http://www.dailyfinance.com/2013/05/05/the-5-states-with-no-sales-tax/ there are 5 states that impose no state sales tax.
So, if you live in close proximity to one of those (or one with a lower tax-rate than your state), should your state post troopers at the border, to confiscate any goods you bought 'across the border'? And, just because I happen to be entering a state WITH a sales tax, would I have to prove I didn't purchase the item in an adjoining state? Just wondering how this would all work.
Or, would this taxing of goods purchased online work only because there would be a 'trail' proving you got something from another state?
And, would this only apply to 'hard goods'? If I buy a song online, but I only receive a 'download' of it, should I pay a tax? Afterall, I don't think I can walk into Roxy's and say, "No, I don't want a physical CD. Just give me a download of such-and-such."
Personally, I think online stores SHOULD have to pay the sales tax of the state they're sending their product to (for the same reason Howard alluded to).
Guess we'll just have to let the gov't settle this question. And, as we all know, the gov't will always do the right thing!
This isn't an issue about
This isn't an issue about whether we're taxed too much, or whether there should be sales tax at all, or taxes in general.
It's about protecting locally owned businesses, the life blood of any local community.
To say they can just sell online too is pure hogwash and shows a any real understanding of how business works. Further, if a Batavia business sells online, it MUST collect NYS sales tax, even if the sale is out-of-state, so the suggestion doesn't fly even for sales that go to states that don't collect sales tax.
First, right from the NYS
First, right from the NYS Dept. of Taxation.
http://www.tax.ny.gov/bus/st/sales_tax_rates.htm
"Sales delivered outside New York State are exempt from tax."
And yes any local business has the opportunity to sell on line. Whether they chose to go through the expense and hassle is another item altogether.
And you're right , after all these years I still don't understand business :-)
Howard, I may not know how
Howard, I may not know how business works, but I do know how a consumer works..
let me see if I'm on the same page as you....
if I purchase a hundred dollars worth of goods on line and I pay a sales tax equal to a local sales tax, this will protect the local business. is that what you are telling me? if it is, please explain.
I will go first, the local business still has his product to sell....the only thing I see accomplished is the state government now has more of my money in their pocket.
Even if online sales were
Even if online sales were required to collect sales tax, people who shop online will continue to do so rather than go out and shop local. As much as I support local businesses and support them when I'm able to, on average online vendors have less overhead and move a high volume of product, equating to a lower price tag on the item I'm buying. If this difference is only a few dollars, I'll shop local. But often times this difference is rather large, and like most people today, money is tight for me. If I can get an item significantly cheaper online (regardless of sales tax) then I'm going to.
Beyond the price difference, you need to consider that people in America today are just plain lazy. I'm willing to bet that a fairly large number of consumers would still buy an item online simply for convenience, even if the price was the exact same (or even slightly higher online.).
Whether online sales collect tax or not, those that shop online instead of local will continue to do so. That being said, we're taxed enough. I vote that they should not collect sales tax simply for that reason.
Also, technically as a consumer anything that you buy online from out of state is legally supposed to be reported on your taxes, and you are responsible for paying the sales tax at that time. Nobody actually does it, but we're all legally supposed to.
We are suppose to pay sales
We are suppose to pay sales tax on whatever we buy on the internet now . WE claim it on our tax forms..
http://www.tax.ny.gov/pdf/publications/sales/pub774.pdf
I don't think people shop on
I don't think people shop on line just because there is no sales tax..It is easy to go on line and shop.That is why people buy on line..It will not generate any new business for local business,New York state has been taxing on line sales allready.If i buy something on line and i am charged sales tax does genessee county get any of that sales tax.This isn't about leveling any playing field for small local business.Its the big box stores who want the sales tax.They are the ones who suffer from companies like Amazon who aren't located in New York State .Its WalMart who wants this to get us to buy on line from them and not Amazon.Walmart has stores in every state where as Amazon doesn't have any stores in all states.Gives Amazon an edge over WalMart.
Isn't it about choice? The
Isn't it about choice? The choice to buy something around the corner and have it immediately or mail order it and wait. The choice to pay shipping, or the gas to go get it. The choice to pay tax on an item or take advantage of one of the few consumer loopholes still existing? I like choices.
Mark, if you had checked, you
Mark, if you had checked, you would have discovered that Amazon does charge an 8% sales tax in NYS. This is the reason I buy very few items from Amazon.com. I buy mostly from TigerDirect; Florida or New Egg; California.
There are hundreds of tax
There are hundreds of tax jurisdictions in this country, if not thousands between states, counties, and cities. There are services (reasonably priced ones, at that) to assist the small online retailer should they need to collect sales taxes. And as Howard noted, it is a fairness issue when b&m retailers have to tack on sales tax while some online retailers do not - regardless of whether someone believes the tax is excessive,
Realistically, most if not all states have a Use Tax that serves a similar purpose as a sales tax, but it is levied on items purchased outside of the state (online/catalog sales). Those purchases are to be self-reported and included on your state income tax returns as Rex noted. Sure, NYS may not require tax be collected for items sold out of state, but the recipient needs to report it and pay use taxes on it in their own state.
Now, to simplify things make the online sales tax a straight 5 or 6%, split evenly between the buying and selling location. May not be the same charged locally, but it would take away much of the need for any new bureaucracy, as well as possibly the need for any services needed now to track the multitude of jurisdictions.
Full stop, please. I own a
Full stop, please. I own a small brick and mortar store. I sell on the internet as well as in my store. Let me make a few points which seem to elude the money grubbing politicians who see everything and everybody as a cow that needs milking.
The idea of sales tax on all sales appeals to those who don't really understand the dynamics of the market. You really want to hurt small business? Pass a law requiring sales tax collection on all internet sales. Small business owners who complain about internet sales aren't thinking the whole thing through. Or aren't taking advantage of its opportunities.
First, the sales tax on a sale and the shipping costs for an out of state internet sale are balancing factors. If I had to charge sales tax in addition to shipping on an internet sale I could not be competitive with bigger retailers that have thinner margins than I do because of their volume of sales.
Second, if I had to collect sales tax on sales to other states and counties, I would have to have some system to determine the rates in each and every county and city in the country and the ability to apply it to every sale. The expense of which would be greater than my profit from these sales and so I would have to stop selling on line. So would a whole lot of others. Do you smell that? It's choice evaporating.
Third, I purchase significant numbers of low volume items from many retailers and wholesalers all over the country for resale to my customers. If I have to submit a sales tax exempt form to each of these vendors in order to not be taxed on resold items I would spend way more time than it would be worth to provide these special order items to my customers.
I can get you a $3 item for three dollars plus tax from my normal wholesalers. Alternatively, you can pay $3 for the item and $12 to get it to your door. Who has the advantage there?
I can get you a $300 item for three hundred dollars plus tax. If you have a problem with it I can help you face to face. I can help you get it right with the manufacturer. Who has the advantage there?
The idea that untaxed internet sales are the bane of small business is pining for the buggy whip industry. Our strengths are numerous. But the most important strength we have is that people WANT to do business with us. Because we are right there. We are available. You can find us right there in our store.
I have told numerous customers that the item they want is available at less than I can get it for from an online retailer such as Amazon. My experience is that about half will tell me to get it for them at my price. And a significant number of the other half keep coming back and buying things from me.
Go ahead. Kill another golden goose if it suits you. Our modern intelligentsia is remarkably good at doing just that. Just don't expect me to cheer on another diminution of the free market and freedom of choice.
Thank you Kyle, well said.
Thank you Kyle, well said. That is an understanding of how the online small business works.
I know a fair number of
I know a fair number of small, locally owned Brick & Mortar business owners throughout the region that have always relied on internet sales as part of their business plan. A recent example; I had a conversation about three weeks ago to discuss some cross-promotion ideas with the owner of "Jesse's Toy Box" in Gowanda, NY. While we were talking he told me that internet sales account for 80% of his business and without it he would not be able to keep the doors open for on site retail sales.