This is a 1st Amendment issue. And almost all the information you are being fed in the news about this issue is wrong. And it is wrong to serve an agenda.
The Issue here is Not guns --Its always been legal to build your own personal firearms as long as they comply with the law[No Full Auto] This is about free speech and the right to disseminate information on the Internet. I went to the web and searched 'Homemade Sub-machine guns in south America'' and got pages of photos of home shop built guns. This is simply an Issue of Gun hating Liberals seeking to stop free speech as long as its about guns ,Like gun shows -They hate gun shows -Along with guns for sales The gun rights people use gun shows to spread the word politically who to vote for and get gun owners to the polls -Liberals seek to shut us up in any way possible.
Kuomo said this will open the door to ""Fully semi Automatic Guns "" What Kind idiot is he anyway? Just thinking he did it deliberately to put the word "Fully" In the sentence to confuse the ill informed Non Gun rights person into thinking Full Auto machine guns .. Its how they work !!
Anyway --- 2 more Appointments to the Supreme court and the 2Nd Amendment will be safe for many years into the future ,,
OBTW--How are your taxes Up There in NY ? I just got mine here in WV-$750.00 for 6 acres wooded land In a beautiful valley with a new shop and Huge House -Did I mention NO-Zoaning ? Have a Nice day !
I didn't vote because I am still torn over the issue.
It is a 1st Amendment issue, just as Kyle noted. But to repeat an oft-repeated note about the 1st Amendment - the 1st Amendment does not give you the right to yell "FIRE!" in a crowded theater. And the 3-d printer instructions for making firearms *may* fall under the realm of public safety outweighing speech rights.
Is it legal to post/download recipes for making sarin gas?
If not, then I don't see any issues with blocking the online posting of 3-d printer instructions for making firearms.
Tim-The issue of Public safety is settled law. It Is Legal to Manufacture a firearm for your personal use ,, You can Buy every part of an AR-15 on the web[just did so last year for $249.00] You can Make your own lower receiver[the part that is Serial numbered making it the firearm in itself] legally your self, The issue is Liberal Anti gun rights people trying to stop the people [you and me ] from acquiring the information as to how to actually build this lower on a Printer. Building a Gun for yourself is LEGAL --Its telling people How to do it is the issue here ! Plastic single shot pistols are not the issue --Its making a gun in general that they seek to stifle !!
Tim, if you want to know how to make poison gases or bombs or guns or a stone bridge or a car, all that information exists separate from those specific applications. It's called chemistry, physics, materials science and engineering.
That is the problem: You can ban ideas and you can ban information. But that won't do you any good because you can't contain either of these. And any attempt to do so makes people very cranky and uncooperative. It is also unconstitutional and antithetical to a free society.
I told my then teen daughter how to make deadly chloramine gas. Why? So she doesn't accidentally make it and kill herself some day. Several people die from inhaling it every year in the US. It is dangerous and it is very easy to make with common household cleaners (Ammonia and Chlorine).
So, should this knowledge be suppressed because it could be used criminally? Or should it be public knowledge so people don't kill themselves accidentally? Knowledge is always better for freedom.
Let me assure you that 3D printed guns won't work without steel parts, because the plastics can't do what is necessary for them to go bang. Firing pins, springs, a chamber at the least have to be strong metal. The cartridge has to be brass or steel and the projectile has to be a heavy metal or it won't fly far, or hit with any energy. That means they are detectable.
They are just as traceable as any other legally made homemade gun. You follow the laws and you can make yourself a gun. Usually a rather poor example, but a gun that is as traceable as any other. Criminals get much better guns illegally and much less expensively. They even grind off the serial numbers, sometimes.
You can also make a gun from off the shelf parts at your local hardware store or auto parts store. Again, not usually a very good one, but you can do it. This is not new and it is not illegal as long as you follow the laws.
These files have been floating around the internet since 2013. The settlement with the State Department had to do with whether the plans violate the ITAR treaty regarding export of arms technology. They don't and the State Department acknowledged this and dropped it's case. It could have taken it to trial and lost. And, it would have lost: That is not in legal dispute, it's only in political dispute.
Nobody is in any danger that they aren't in anyway whether these files exist or not. It is just scaremongering, money raising and agenda pushing. It is ok. Really.
Don't you get tired of all this manipulation and the world is constantly ending stuff? I figure I must be dying at the rate of at least twice a month if all these activists have been correct in their constant proclamations of doom and apocalypse since forever.
And, to be fair, it is a bipartisan scam. Activists of all stripes are going to run around with their hair on fire scaring people into coughing up the green for the cause. But, man I just get tired of it.
There was similar "Much-to-do the sky is falling hype when Glock introduced their first polymer-plastic framed handgun. The politicians had a field day with claims such as "They will defeat metal detectors. They are entirely made of plastic, etcetera.
Really? Why would the bad guy spend all that money to buy a special printer and the material to make the gun when he could steal one or buy one on the street for so much less? Richard is right, this is 'Much to do about nothing".
All this reminds me of a fellow airman, Airman Stevens, in the Air Force. One night when we had gate duty together, he brought in his "Anarchist Cookbook" along with several other similar books he bought through mail order. All cheaply printed. There was a design for a zip gun I remember, other guns, grenades, other IEDs, other lethal weapons. All homemade.
It was pretty eye-opening or an 18-year-old from a suburban, laid-back, Southern California, middle-class background.
Interestingly, Airman Stevens was no radical. He wasn't politically extreme. Just another guy in the USAF. He was just fascinated by this stuff for some reason. Though looking through these books with him felt pretty subversive.
Now, you can buy the Anarchist Cookbook from Google as a downloadable eBook.
A friend of mine just sent me this link of a Netflix documentary on William Powell, the author of the Anarchist Cookbook, who after a religious conversion tried to have it suppressed.
I printed the Vox article primarily to demonstrate who is upset about 3D printed firearms. As noted in the article- that would be State Attorneys General. I did not have time to read the whole article. If the article suggested that a 3D printer would spit out a fully functional gun I deny all knowledge and responsibility.
This is a 1st Amendment issue
This is a 1st Amendment issue. And almost all the information you are being fed in the news about this issue is wrong. And it is wrong to serve an agenda.
The Issue here is Not guns -
The Issue here is Not guns --Its always been legal to build your own personal firearms as long as they comply with the law[No Full Auto] This is about free speech and the right to disseminate information on the Internet. I went to the web and searched 'Homemade Sub-machine guns in south America'' and got pages of photos of home shop built guns. This is simply an Issue of Gun hating Liberals seeking to stop free speech as long as its about guns ,Like gun shows -They hate gun shows -Along with guns for sales The gun rights people use gun shows to spread the word politically who to vote for and get gun owners to the polls -Liberals seek to shut us up in any way possible.
Kuomo said this will open the door to ""Fully semi Automatic Guns "" What Kind idiot is he anyway? Just thinking he did it deliberately to put the word "Fully" In the sentence to confuse the ill informed Non Gun rights person into thinking Full Auto machine guns .. Its how they work !!
Anyway --- 2 more Appointments to the Supreme court and the 2Nd Amendment will be safe for many years into the future ,,
OBTW--How are your taxes Up There in NY ? I just got mine here in WV-$750.00 for 6 acres wooded land In a beautiful valley with a new shop and Huge House -Did I mention NO-Zoaning ? Have a Nice day !
I didn't vote because I am
I didn't vote because I am still torn over the issue.
It is a 1st Amendment issue, just as Kyle noted. But to repeat an oft-repeated note about the 1st Amendment - the 1st Amendment does not give you the right to yell "FIRE!" in a crowded theater. And the 3-d printer instructions for making firearms *may* fall under the realm of public safety outweighing speech rights.
Is it legal to post/download recipes for making sarin gas?
If not, then I don't see any issues with blocking the online posting of 3-d printer instructions for making firearms.
Tim-The issue of Public
Tim-The issue of Public safety is settled law. It Is Legal to Manufacture a firearm for your personal use ,, You can Buy every part of an AR-15 on the web[just did so last year for $249.00] You can Make your own lower receiver[the part that is Serial numbered making it the firearm in itself] legally your self, The issue is Liberal Anti gun rights people trying to stop the people [you and me ] from acquiring the information as to how to actually build this lower on a Printer. Building a Gun for yourself is LEGAL --Its telling people How to do it is the issue here ! Plastic single shot pistols are not the issue --Its making a gun in general that they seek to stifle !!
https://www.vox.com/2018/7/31
https://www.vox.com/2018/7/31/17634558/3d-printed-guns-trump-cody-wilso…
Tim, if you want to know how
Tim, if you want to know how to make poison gases or bombs or guns or a stone bridge or a car, all that information exists separate from those specific applications. It's called chemistry, physics, materials science and engineering.
That is the problem: You can ban ideas and you can ban information. But that won't do you any good because you can't contain either of these. And any attempt to do so makes people very cranky and uncooperative. It is also unconstitutional and antithetical to a free society.
I told my then teen daughter how to make deadly chloramine gas. Why? So she doesn't accidentally make it and kill herself some day. Several people die from inhaling it every year in the US. It is dangerous and it is very easy to make with common household cleaners (Ammonia and Chlorine).
So, should this knowledge be suppressed because it could be used criminally? Or should it be public knowledge so people don't kill themselves accidentally? Knowledge is always better for freedom.
"You wouldn't download a car
"You wouldn't download a car would you?"
There will in fact be certain downloadable plans that would be illegal, for copyright and patent reasons.
So this automatically has far more nuance than a 'yes' or 'no' answer.
Randy - thank you for your
Randy - thank you for your constant cries of "those damn liberals"... very constructive to the conversation.
Kyle - thank you (for real) for the explanation of your viewpoint. You make some darn good points.
C.M.,
C.M.,
Let me assure you that 3D printed guns won't work without steel parts, because the plastics can't do what is necessary for them to go bang. Firing pins, springs, a chamber at the least have to be strong metal. The cartridge has to be brass or steel and the projectile has to be a heavy metal or it won't fly far, or hit with any energy. That means they are detectable.
They are just as traceable as any other legally made homemade gun. You follow the laws and you can make yourself a gun. Usually a rather poor example, but a gun that is as traceable as any other. Criminals get much better guns illegally and much less expensively. They even grind off the serial numbers, sometimes.
You can also make a gun from off the shelf parts at your local hardware store or auto parts store. Again, not usually a very good one, but you can do it. This is not new and it is not illegal as long as you follow the laws.
These files have been floating around the internet since 2013. The settlement with the State Department had to do with whether the plans violate the ITAR treaty regarding export of arms technology. They don't and the State Department acknowledged this and dropped it's case. It could have taken it to trial and lost. And, it would have lost: That is not in legal dispute, it's only in political dispute.
Nobody is in any danger that they aren't in anyway whether these files exist or not. It is just scaremongering, money raising and agenda pushing. It is ok. Really.
Don't you get tired of all this manipulation and the world is constantly ending stuff? I figure I must be dying at the rate of at least twice a month if all these activists have been correct in their constant proclamations of doom and apocalypse since forever.
And, to be fair, it is a bipartisan scam. Activists of all stripes are going to run around with their hair on fire scaring people into coughing up the green for the cause. But, man I just get tired of it.
There was similar "Much-to-do
There was similar "Much-to-do the sky is falling hype when Glock introduced their first polymer-plastic framed handgun. The politicians had a field day with claims such as "They will defeat metal detectors. They are entirely made of plastic, etcetera.
Really? Why would the bad guy
Really? Why would the bad guy spend all that money to buy a special printer and the material to make the gun when he could steal one or buy one on the street for so much less? Richard is right, this is 'Much to do about nothing".
All this reminds me of a
All this reminds me of a fellow airman, Airman Stevens, in the Air Force. One night when we had gate duty together, he brought in his "Anarchist Cookbook" along with several other similar books he bought through mail order. All cheaply printed. There was a design for a zip gun I remember, other guns, grenades, other IEDs, other lethal weapons. All homemade.
It was pretty eye-opening or an 18-year-old from a suburban, laid-back, Southern California, middle-class background.
Interestingly, Airman Stevens was no radical. He wasn't politically extreme. Just another guy in the USAF. He was just fascinated by this stuff for some reason. Though looking through these books with him felt pretty subversive.
Now, you can buy the Anarchist Cookbook from Google as a downloadable eBook.
A friend of mine just sent me
A friend of mine just sent me this link of a Netflix documentary on William Powell, the author of the Anarchist Cookbook, who after a religious conversion tried to have it suppressed.
https://www.netflix.com/title/80143794?source=android
I printed the Vox article
I printed the Vox article primarily to demonstrate who is upset about 3D printed firearms. As noted in the article- that would be State Attorneys General. I did not have time to read the whole article. If the article suggested that a 3D printer would spit out a fully functional gun I deny all knowledge and responsibility.