Good one, Dennis! After having spent 2 hours last night hearing about creation and how scientific theories have all been disproved related to evolution, etc. I have to agree...we are at the center of the universe and our planet was made by God and is the only one that can sustain life. Amen!
Proof of evolution can easily be witnessed in disease. Virii and bacteria rapidly evolve into other variants. This evolutionary process is well ducumented with the flu virus, HIV, Tuberculosis and MRSA. MRSA bacteria evolved to become resistant to antibiotics as did Tuberculosis. HIV evolves into a virus that's unique to its host once the infection takes place. The flu virus evolves every year and that's why new innocculation formulas have to be created every flu season.
There's evidence of evolution at every turn throughout the fossil records. There is fossil proof of animals in the middle of evolving. Since the process never stops, it can even be argued that all fossils are mid-evolution.
The evidence for evolution has primarily come from four sources:
1. the fossil record of change in earlier species
2. the chemical and anatomical similarities of related life forms
3. the geographic distribution of related species
4. the recorded genetic changes in living organisms over many generations
Evolution is no longer a thoery. It's now a demonstrable, scientific, fact.
Yeah ...OK ...Michele and I suppose dinasaurs never existed either. Pull your head out of the sand and use the brain you were born with and perhaps you will see through the the religious brainwashing and rhetoric that's been driven into peoples heads since the dawn of time. Religion, any and all religions, are MAN made and of course.....it must me the absolute thruth then...right??..again...yeah ...OK!!!!!!!...get real.
One thing I like about my religious beliefs is it makes me a better person than to personally attack someone for their beliefs, Rich. There is PROOF of dinosaurs, therefore I believe in them. There also was proof that there is man's footprint in a dinosaur footprint fossil. I have not seen any Proof of evolution. Science points to different sizes of horses...a horse is a horse! There are not any, let alone thousands of fossils of reptile- mammals or transitional creatures as promised by Darwin according to my knowledge. Carbon dating has been proved to be flawed repeatedly. I am just looking for truth! I keep my eyes open and I will investigate the information provided by Doug. You have not pointed out anything factual, only insulted me.
Michele, where is the PROOF that God exists? And I'm curious where you were that you listened for 2 hours about how evolution has been disproved. Was it, perhaps, at church?
I have trouble understanding why people believe God wouldn’t have created intelligent life on other planets and for that matter the process of evolution.
Why would finding life on another planet shake your belief in God?
Why is it so important to take the story of creation in the bible literally?
Charlie, I agree.
Those who believe that the Bible should be taken literally, shouldn't even be on here. I don't recall computers mentioned in the Bible.
Also it's clear that you have no idea what the theory of evolution says or how it works. I would recommend reading the book "The Greatest Show on Earth" by Richard Dawkins.
@ Angela...My faith tells me that God exists. I have seen many people transitioning to actively dying and have seen so many things that tell me God is real. I sought to learn more on the subject of Creation because I admittedly know more on the other side (science) since thats what we were taught in school. Unfortunately I have seen most of that stuff disproved over the past 30 years.
@ Charlie... It is the science part that I have heard, not the religion that makes me believe there is not life elsewhere. I admittedly am just a lay person when it comes to the Bible, but I am not aware of whether it is possible for God to have created life elsewhere, I am not a Biblical scholar and do not know the Bible as one. I just know that I read something about the gravitational pull of objects in our solar system that have indicated we are likely at the center. Something like they did measurements of the rocks falling from Jupitor toward the Sun. Could this be wrong? I suppose. But this is not r/t anything other than science.
@ Bea... I have no idea what you are talking about or afraid of.
@ Doug... thank you for posting, but what you gave me I pretty much expected. Maybe I was not exactly clear on my beliefs (I did not realize I would have to debate) Certainly I believe in mutation/evolution of species. But as I said before... a horse is a horse and as the Bible says, of its own KIND. Maybe viruses have changed, and some have become super germs like VRE and MRSA, but bottom line they are still viruses and germs. Not a horse! What I was referring to is the idea that life started from a Big Bang or some mucky slop and out of this made a one celled organism that evolved into a fish then into an amphibean to a bird to a monkey to man. And you guys think I have a screw loose! Scientists tried to make a soup of all the things necessary (or so they thought) and even changed the recipe a few times until lo and behold they found amino acids. Problem was, it also made poison that would kill anything that tried to grow. It is wise to continue learning throughout life and make up your mind what your belief is. I am not trying to force my beliefs on anyone else, they are mine. I am educated and pretty well read. I do not understand why everyone wants to attack my beliefs as if they know better without offering up some kind of proof?
Michelle, I hope you don't think I was attacking you. I simply wanted to present factual evidence of evolution since so many people still think its still just a theory.
There's no chance of me ever believeing in creationism but I fully understand why so many people want to. My mother took me to church every Sunday morning as a child and even then it was all hocus pocus and contradiction to me.
As I've aged and become better educated, I realized that all societies since the time of the caveman have believed in some form of a supreme being or beings. None of them came up with the exact same beliefs/gods, however. This proves to me that all religions and Gods are simply in the mind of man and that it's a function of our brain rather than something that can be scientifically proven.
Most people of faith want to believe that they're somehow more important than than any other life on the planet and that life can't possibly exist anywhere else in the universe. People of faith don't commonly believe that any other species besides man has a soul. That way of thinking is entirely self serving. Because the human brain has the ability to rationalize and have original thoughts, it is also susceptible to imagination. People tend to invent imaginary scenerios to protect them from the truth.
Children often build complicated imaginary themes and imaginary friends that enable them to cope with their thinking brain. Criminals build elaborate lies to protect them from the truth of their crimes. Murderes unable to deal with the fact that they actually killed someone will often say something like "That wasn't me! That was someone else..I could never do something like that!" They actually believe what they're saying.
I find religion and the belief in a supreme being to be that very same self preservation protectionism. Religions and gods give people justification/absolution (freeing oneself from sin or wrong doing).
Non believers want to deal with reality on a more truthful, factual level. We accept who and what we are without the need to justify it or to feel guilty for it. We simply "are." Our morals and behavioral compass are guided by common sense, not by imagination and "wishing into reality" that things were different than they really are. All the wishing in the world is just that, wishing.
In conclusion, that's how I see the world every day. If you believe in a higher power, so be it (amen). I don't disparage anyone for their beliefs. If it works for them/you and doesn't hurt anyone else, it's not a terrible thing so please don't feel that I was attacking you, okay?
Doug, You say your beliefs in a rational and logical way. I respect your beliefs though they differ from mine. I will check out the readings you posted. It is my understanding that when God created the Earth it was under a canopy that created a tropical environment. Once this was removed some event did occur whereas the oceans cooled and a type of ice age occurred across the Earth. The sweeping ice did uproot fossils etc and thats why they find newer ones below older ones. I wish to believe the Bible, and scholars have shown where these activities are documented in the Bible to my satisfaction. I have not found any factual evidence that shows any other way, just theories and other beliefs! Why is it that if all life supposedly started from one form that the best they can do with scientific research is pollywog fossils? Species do change/modify over time but within their own species only, so the facts show. How do you believe life originated?
Bea, I do not believe in the Big Bang Theory and it contradicts the Bible. I am not aware that God created life else where because as far as I know it is not referred to in the Bible. I do believe that with God anything is possible.
Michele, I despair at the thought that you will instantly ignore anything that contradicts the Bible. Blind faith leads to atrocities. Please read a book. Look at a peer reviewed source. Make an honest attempt towards knowledge, or don't pretend that you do.
Michele, just want you to know that you're not alone. I don't think you want to put your faith in "peer review." What qualifies someone to be a professional in a given field of study? Professionals, or nonprofessionals for that matter, normally gravitate toward those who believe alike. Just because they all huddle together does not make them a source of authority. At the end of the day you have to decide who you are going to trust, man or God (Romans 1).
Again, why do you believe God expected us to take the story of creation literally? Why would you ignore the big bang theory? Who but, God could have created the universe in a split second? In my opinion there is no stronger point in science for the existence of a creator. God didn't leave these clues for us to ignore and your are not serving him when you do.
Science will eventually prove the existence of God, maybe you should have a little faith.
Beleive any theory you want, but at the end of the day, it won't even get you a cup of coffee. In my own opinion, I can't imagine that the creation of mankind was a result of just the big bang theory, but also find it just as hard to believe in just one God, or follow the bible's version either. Chariots of the Gods makes more sense to me.
It would explain the gap in time, or missing link, if you will.I believe in a higher power, but as a recovering catholic, question the teachings of the bible.
@Jeff: What makes someone an expert in a field is years of study in it, certification by an accredited school, and submitting testable hypotheses and furthering the knowledge of mankind. Offhandedly discrediting the people who have invented every technology in your world and more than doubled the life expectancy of humans in the last 200 years seems ungrateful at best. Only the Amish could be justified in being so anti-intellectual.
But alas! This has nothing to do with trusting man vs trusting god. This has to do with being completely in the dark about reality. You can believe in god and still know that the earth is not the center of the universe.
@Charlie: Unfortunately god is not in any way a testable hypothesis, so it'll certainly never be proved. But it will also never be disproved.
I question whether there's
I question whether there's really intelligent life on this planet.
<rim shot>
<rim shot>
Dennis, that was my first
Dennis, that was my first reaction to this question.
Good one, Dennis! After
Good one, Dennis! After having spent 2 hours last night hearing about creation and how scientific theories have all been disproved related to evolution, etc. I have to agree...we are at the center of the universe and our planet was made by God and is the only one that can sustain life. Amen!
Michele, Please tell me you
Michele,
Please tell me you said that with tongue-in cheek and that you don't really ignore scientific facts
What scientific facts? They
What scientific facts? They have disproved all the theories using the fossil record.
To change the subject,
To change the subject, Michele. I sent you an e-mail a week or so ago and you have not responded. Please respond.
Michele, you sound very
Michele, you sound very confused. What theories were disproved using the fossil record. I'd love to help you get this sorted out.
Proof of evolution can easily
Proof of evolution can easily be witnessed in disease. Virii and bacteria rapidly evolve into other variants. This evolutionary process is well ducumented with the flu virus, HIV, Tuberculosis and MRSA. MRSA bacteria evolved to become resistant to antibiotics as did Tuberculosis. HIV evolves into a virus that's unique to its host once the infection takes place. The flu virus evolves every year and that's why new innocculation formulas have to be created every flu season.
There's evidence of evolution at every turn throughout the fossil records. There is fossil proof of animals in the middle of evolving. Since the process never stops, it can even be argued that all fossils are mid-evolution.
List of transitional fossils: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_transitional_fossils
The virtual fossil museum: http://www.fossilmuseum.net/
Evidence of Evolution: http://anthro.palomar.edu/evolve/evolve_3.htm
The evidence for evolution has primarily come from four sources:
1. the fossil record of change in earlier species
2. the chemical and anatomical similarities of related life forms
3. the geographic distribution of related species
4. the recorded genetic changes in living organisms over many generations
Evolution is no longer a thoery. It's now a demonstrable, scientific, fact.
Yeah ...OK ...Michele and I
Yeah ...OK ...Michele and I suppose dinasaurs never existed either. Pull your head out of the sand and use the brain you were born with and perhaps you will see through the the religious brainwashing and rhetoric that's been driven into peoples heads since the dawn of time. Religion, any and all religions, are MAN made and of course.....it must me the absolute thruth then...right??..again...yeah ...OK!!!!!!!...get real.
One thing I like about my
One thing I like about my religious beliefs is it makes me a better person than to personally attack someone for their beliefs, Rich. There is PROOF of dinosaurs, therefore I believe in them. There also was proof that there is man's footprint in a dinosaur footprint fossil. I have not seen any Proof of evolution. Science points to different sizes of horses...a horse is a horse! There are not any, let alone thousands of fossils of reptile- mammals or transitional creatures as promised by Darwin according to my knowledge. Carbon dating has been proved to be flawed repeatedly. I am just looking for truth! I keep my eyes open and I will investigate the information provided by Doug. You have not pointed out anything factual, only insulted me.
Michele, where is the PROOF
Michele, where is the PROOF that God exists? And I'm curious where you were that you listened for 2 hours about how evolution has been disproved. Was it, perhaps, at church?
I have trouble understanding
I have trouble understanding why people believe God wouldn’t have created intelligent life on other planets and for that matter the process of evolution.
Why would finding life on another planet shake your belief in God?
Why is it so important to take the story of creation in the bible literally?
Charlie, I agree. Those who
Charlie, I agree.
Those who believe that the Bible should be taken literally, shouldn't even be on here. I don't recall computers mentioned in the Bible.
Because He can only be ours!
Because He can only be ours!
What? There's no computers mentioned in the Bible? Are you sure? Lies!!!!
The human footprint with the
The human footprint with the dinosaur footprints was debunked decades ago.
http://paleo.cc/paluxy/paluxy.htm
Also it's clear that you have no idea what the theory of evolution says or how it works. I would recommend reading the book "The Greatest Show on Earth" by Richard Dawkins.
@ Angela...My faith tells me
@ Angela...My faith tells me that God exists. I have seen many people transitioning to actively dying and have seen so many things that tell me God is real. I sought to learn more on the subject of Creation because I admittedly know more on the other side (science) since thats what we were taught in school. Unfortunately I have seen most of that stuff disproved over the past 30 years.
@ Charlie... It is the science part that I have heard, not the religion that makes me believe there is not life elsewhere. I admittedly am just a lay person when it comes to the Bible, but I am not aware of whether it is possible for God to have created life elsewhere, I am not a Biblical scholar and do not know the Bible as one. I just know that I read something about the gravitational pull of objects in our solar system that have indicated we are likely at the center. Something like they did measurements of the rocks falling from Jupitor toward the Sun. Could this be wrong? I suppose. But this is not r/t anything other than science.
@ Bea... I have no idea what you are talking about or afraid of.
@ Doug... thank you for posting, but what you gave me I pretty much expected. Maybe I was not exactly clear on my beliefs (I did not realize I would have to debate) Certainly I believe in mutation/evolution of species. But as I said before... a horse is a horse and as the Bible says, of its own KIND. Maybe viruses have changed, and some have become super germs like VRE and MRSA, but bottom line they are still viruses and germs. Not a horse! What I was referring to is the idea that life started from a Big Bang or some mucky slop and out of this made a one celled organism that evolved into a fish then into an amphibean to a bird to a monkey to man. And you guys think I have a screw loose! Scientists tried to make a soup of all the things necessary (or so they thought) and even changed the recipe a few times until lo and behold they found amino acids. Problem was, it also made poison that would kill anything that tried to grow. It is wise to continue learning throughout life and make up your mind what your belief is. I am not trying to force my beliefs on anyone else, they are mine. I am educated and pretty well read. I do not understand why everyone wants to attack my beliefs as if they know better without offering up some kind of proof?
What I was referring to is
What I was referring to is the idea that life started from a Big Bang .....
Isn't it possible that our Eternal Father made the big bang possible and the evolution process was part of the grand plan?
Frank, I also recommend 2
Frank, I also recommend 2 more books.
Not by Fire but by Ice: Discover What Killed the Dinosaurs...and Why It Could Soon Kill Us by Robert W. Felix
http://www.amazon.com/Not-Fire-but-Ice-Dinosaurs/dp/0964874687/ref=sr_1…
Magnetic Reversals and Evolutionary Leaps: The True Origin of Species by Robert W. Felix
http://www.amazon.com/Magnetic-Reversals-Evolutionary-Leaps-Species/dp/…
Michelle, I hope you don't think I was attacking you. I simply wanted to present factual evidence of evolution since so many people still think its still just a theory.
There's no chance of me ever believeing in creationism but I fully understand why so many people want to. My mother took me to church every Sunday morning as a child and even then it was all hocus pocus and contradiction to me.
As I've aged and become better educated, I realized that all societies since the time of the caveman have believed in some form of a supreme being or beings. None of them came up with the exact same beliefs/gods, however. This proves to me that all religions and Gods are simply in the mind of man and that it's a function of our brain rather than something that can be scientifically proven.
Most people of faith want to believe that they're somehow more important than than any other life on the planet and that life can't possibly exist anywhere else in the universe. People of faith don't commonly believe that any other species besides man has a soul. That way of thinking is entirely self serving. Because the human brain has the ability to rationalize and have original thoughts, it is also susceptible to imagination. People tend to invent imaginary scenerios to protect them from the truth.
Children often build complicated imaginary themes and imaginary friends that enable them to cope with their thinking brain. Criminals build elaborate lies to protect them from the truth of their crimes. Murderes unable to deal with the fact that they actually killed someone will often say something like "That wasn't me! That was someone else..I could never do something like that!" They actually believe what they're saying.
I find religion and the belief in a supreme being to be that very same self preservation protectionism. Religions and gods give people justification/absolution (freeing oneself from sin or wrong doing).
Non believers want to deal with reality on a more truthful, factual level. We accept who and what we are without the need to justify it or to feel guilty for it. We simply "are." Our morals and behavioral compass are guided by common sense, not by imagination and "wishing into reality" that things were different than they really are. All the wishing in the world is just that, wishing.
In conclusion, that's how I see the world every day. If you believe in a higher power, so be it (amen). I don't disparage anyone for their beliefs. If it works for them/you and doesn't hurt anyone else, it's not a terrible thing so please don't feel that I was attacking you, okay?
Doug, You say your beliefs in
Doug, You say your beliefs in a rational and logical way. I respect your beliefs though they differ from mine. I will check out the readings you posted. It is my understanding that when God created the Earth it was under a canopy that created a tropical environment. Once this was removed some event did occur whereas the oceans cooled and a type of ice age occurred across the Earth. The sweeping ice did uproot fossils etc and thats why they find newer ones below older ones. I wish to believe the Bible, and scholars have shown where these activities are documented in the Bible to my satisfaction. I have not found any factual evidence that shows any other way, just theories and other beliefs! Why is it that if all life supposedly started from one form that the best they can do with scientific research is pollywog fossils? Species do change/modify over time but within their own species only, so the facts show. How do you believe life originated?
Bea, I do not believe in the
Bea, I do not believe in the Big Bang Theory and it contradicts the Bible. I am not aware that God created life else where because as far as I know it is not referred to in the Bible. I do believe that with God anything is possible.
Michele, I applaud and
Michele, I applaud and respect your right to your belief.
You are right, with God, anything is possible.
Michele, I despair at the
Michele, I despair at the thought that you will instantly ignore anything that contradicts the Bible. Blind faith leads to atrocities. Please read a book. Look at a peer reviewed source. Make an honest attempt towards knowledge, or don't pretend that you do.
Michele, just want you to
Michele, just want you to know that you're not alone. I don't think you want to put your faith in "peer review." What qualifies someone to be a professional in a given field of study? Professionals, or nonprofessionals for that matter, normally gravitate toward those who believe alike. Just because they all huddle together does not make them a source of authority. At the end of the day you have to decide who you are going to trust, man or God (Romans 1).
Again, why do you believe God
Again, why do you believe God expected us to take the story of creation literally? Why would you ignore the big bang theory? Who but, God could have created the universe in a split second? In my opinion there is no stronger point in science for the existence of a creator. God didn't leave these clues for us to ignore and your are not serving him when you do.
Science will eventually prove the existence of God, maybe you should have a little faith.
Beleive any theory you want,
Beleive any theory you want, but at the end of the day, it won't even get you a cup of coffee. In my own opinion, I can't imagine that the creation of mankind was a result of just the big bang theory, but also find it just as hard to believe in just one God, or follow the bible's version either. Chariots of the Gods makes more sense to me.
It would explain the gap in time, or missing link, if you will.I believe in a higher power, but as a recovering catholic, question the teachings of the bible.
@Jeff: What makes someone an
@Jeff: What makes someone an expert in a field is years of study in it, certification by an accredited school, and submitting testable hypotheses and furthering the knowledge of mankind. Offhandedly discrediting the people who have invented every technology in your world and more than doubled the life expectancy of humans in the last 200 years seems ungrateful at best. Only the Amish could be justified in being so anti-intellectual.
But alas! This has nothing to do with trusting man vs trusting god. This has to do with being completely in the dark about reality. You can believe in god and still know that the earth is not the center of the universe.
@Charlie: Unfortunately god is not in any way a testable hypothesis, so it'll certainly never be proved. But it will also never be disproved.