Today's Poll: Is America in decline?

Unemployment is up, forclosures are up, first time jobless claims are up, new home ownership is down, pension values are down, investments are down, our global image is down, the value of the dollar continues to decline, we have recently been surpassed as the global financial leader and are on the cusp of slipping to third, our debt is primarily in the hands of a communist country. Someone, ANYONE, please, please, PLEASE tell me how we are NOT in decline. As of this writing there are at least 59 folks who think so...what say ye?

I don't know if we are in decline or not, but surely we have lost our status globally in a lot of categories. What I took away from your link, Howard is that if we don't start addressing these issues, we will continue to lose ground and that defines decline to me. We really have to reduce government's size, stop spending money trying to police and influence other countries, & stop the stupid bi-partisan bickering and stalemates. Stop the wars, bring our people home; Obama and Hilary are going to get us into war with Pakistan and/or Iran if they keep it up, that'll drop another anvil on our ability to get out of this recession/depression/decline: whatever it's called. Of course reducing government's size will remove some of it's power and there wouldn't be as much for the politicals to fight over. If we stop bullying and policing the rest of the world and start finding ways to trade fairly (small f), that might just help our trade deficits. I believe electing more non-Dems or Repub's., and installing term limits across the board; national and local is a good start. Reducing bureaucracies, privatizing a lot of government functions, such as education will help a lot too. I was looking at Rasmussen's poll site too and only 32% of Americans think the country is heading in the right direction. 81% don't believe politicians have any intention of keeping campaign promises.
http://www.rasmussenreports.com/

Too complicated however for a big dumb WNY hick like me. But it feels good to rant once in a while

Howard, natural economic variables are not driven by wind or humidity, they are driven by the policies of those governing economic growth. Our global economic standing is what set us as the world's economic leader, therefore our weakening economy is what is taking us out of that status and hence in decline. We are being chastised more and more by leaders of other countries who suddenly feel emboldened to take us to task on a global stage. We are falling behind in innovations. All the rest of the world sees is a country at war with itself. If these are not clear signs of decline, I don't know what else it would take.

Sorry if I'm being Davie the Downer, but Howard started it.
http://www.declineoftheempire.com/2010/08/signs_of_decay_in_america.html

The writer is right in saying that as change happens gradually, people don't notice it as much. He's also right that propaganda works. The recession ended last year, what's the matter with you all? Don't drink the kool-aid. We really do need to wake up.

This is what i mean by "don't drink the kool-aid", think hard when it's time to vote in 19 days.

http://www.declineoftheempire.com/2010/10/congress-and-the-illusion-of-…

http://motherjones.com/politics/2010/09/congress-corporate-sponsors

All of the political and economic problems are serious and hopefully repairable.
One thing the bothers me about our decline is the lack of respect people (especially children) have for others. It seems like no one is taught basic manners anymore. I think that at the core our children need to get out of the me,me,me mode, for which we parents are to blame. We need to stop letting the kids run the homes.
I give in a lot to my kids, but when I talk to parents of their friends, I'm always told how polite my boys are.
And like our parents once thought, these kids are going to run things some day. I don't know about you, but that scares the hell out of me.
America can be repaired, but we need to look at the smaller picture as well as the big one!
Have a great weekend!

How predictable, 97 people voted that America is not in decline and yet not one is willing to defend that position and show that we are heading in the right direction. I hope that translates to the voting booth on Nov. 2nd

Greg, you make a good point, but its not just kids that have the me,me,me attitude, many people are just plain selfish, and the kids pick up on it.
And to be quite honest, do you really think the next generation of leadership in this country could screw it up any more than it is now?
I deal with all types of people, and in my opinion, there are very few who treat others with respect. Most are either rude, obnoxious, or self centered, we can't expect our kids to be what we are not.
I beleive people are showing their frustation with the current economic mess this country is in, sometimes you just can't paint that smile on your face and pretend nothings wrong. We need new blood in politics, not just flavors a or b.

I'm sure you and many on this site will support abolishing the minimum wage; social security; aid to public schools; health care; medicaid and medicare; food stamps; and the other programs that are being tossed about. We can do without the FDA; OSHA; EPA, etc.
Will all of that fix the decline?

Bea, I agree with you on all but osha, and feel even osha could be scaled back some. But with all the greed in corporate America, osha is a necessary evil, unless we are willing to work in unsafe environments. FDA,for the most part has become ineffective.
I find it so ironic that the party that ran our country into the ground, is always opposed to social programs, keep the programs, lose the party.Just my 2 cents.

Frank,

I think Bea was being sarcastic.

Bea? Sarcastic? Surely you jest

Jerimiah, I know,thats why I said I agree.I'm not in favor of losing federal or state programs either. The answer to our decline comes in the way of decent paying jobs. Our economy is showing the signs of weak paying jobs, in this area particularly. $12 - 15/hour jobs have been replaced by $7.50-8/hour jobs. Thats a lot of money not going back into the economy.Could also be why for sale signs have sprouted up on virtually every residential street in the city.
Some people were making more on unemployment than they could go out and earn by taking an $8 - 9/hour job. Not much incentive for job hunters.
Minimum wage should also be increased to help offset the inflated price of almost everything being sold to consumers.What cost me $120.OO at the supermarket less than a year ago, now costs about $150.00, and it is still rising weekly.
I can hear the opposition now, if minimum wage goes up, so won't costs,well the costs are going up anyway, what's the difference.

More Tea Party Hilarity
My daughter in law just sent this to me.
I love how the Tea Party justifies their actions and condemns the same in others:
http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/matt-taibbi/blogs/TaibbiData_May20…

Bea,
You mean just like the left?

103 votes for no and still no one willing to step up and quantify, just cast blame.

I voted we are not in a decline, I get a sense that those of you who voted that we ARE in a decline and have commented here after taking the Poll might feel you speak for the majority of Americans. That just scares me that we as a population think just because we can type on a computer, understand economics enough to hold our own in a debate on the health of our economy makes us 'The Majority". I can tell you this much at least about why I trust my country is not in a decline. Its due to us. We are unique to many other nations because we make ourselves accountable.. This has always played out and still does, as one of our biggest strengths. When the going gets tough we don't revolt. In a legal manner we still address what needs to change. People in the US do it every single day at our highest level right down to our local levels.
People from most every country in the world still want to live in this country. That is an indicator to me that what we have always prided ourselves is still true. We ARE a country to be reckoned with because everyone of us has the ability to be what helps drive us to greatness as a nation. My idea of what continues to make this a progressive nation may not be what the 'decline" commenters here believe but that's fine with me.

Diane :)
You state the obvious.
Thanks for joining in.

Posted by John Roach on October 16, 2010 - 8:19pm
Bea,
You mean just like the left?

John, did you even bother to read the blog? If so, are you saying that it is okay for members of the Tea Party to accept benefits from the government, while railing against the poor and those in need who look for the same lifeline?

Bea, keep up the good work exposing this party for what it is, the green tea party, green, as in mold, their baloney is getting old. Green,as in mint flavored republicans, you can hide the flavor, but not the agenda.

Bea,
Individual members of any party, including your own, may or may not do things that the party as a whole don't believe in. Of course, you wouldn't know that.

Frank,
Check the Green Party platform for governor. They want to increase taxes back to the 1972 levels. That would be almost a 100% increase in state income taxes. Are you on record that you like that idea?

The blog cites, "Alaska Senatorial candidate, Joe Miller, he and his family have been exposed for taking state medical aid, unemployment insurance, farm subsidies, using state equipment to run a private political campaign.
Miller himself and his three children (with one on the way; he now has eight) were at one point receiving assistance via a program almost exactly like the Denali KidCare program, which is only for low-income earners. Various reports note that Miller received this assistance after he’d bought a house and been hired by a prestigious law firm; he also got low-income hunting and fishing licenses during that time. It’s also come out that he received some $7,000 in farm subsidies and that his wife received unemployment insurance benefits."

Miller then, "uses state aid to help him through tough times and get over the hump – so that he can go from having three little future Medicare-collecting Republican children to eight little future Medicare-collecting Republican children – that’s a good solid use of government aid, because what we’re doing is helping someone “transition” from dependency to economic independence."

As the author of that blog stated, "I can’t even tell you how many people I interviewed at Tea Party events who came up with one version or another of the Joe Miller defense. Yes, I’m on Medicare, but… I needed it! It’s those other people who don’t need it who are the problem!"
He continued, "Or: Yes, it’s true, I retired from the police/military/DPW at 54 and am on a fat government pension that you and your kids are going to be paying for for the next forty years, while I sit in my plywood-paneled living room in Florida watching Fox News, gobbling Medicare-funded prescription medications, and railing against welfare queens. But I worked hard for those bennies! Not like those other people!"

This isn't just a few Tea Party people, it is an entire mindset.

"This whole concept of “good welfare” and “bad welfare” is at the heart of the Tea Party ideology, and it’s something that is believed implicitly across the line. It’s why so many of their political champions, like Miller, and sniveling Kentucky rich kid Rand Paul (a doctor whose patient base is 50% state insured), and Nevada “crazy juice” Senate candidate Sharron Angle (who’s covered by husband Ted’s Federal Employee Health Plan insurance), are so completely unapologetic about taking state aid with one hand and jacking off angry pseudo-libertarian mobs with the other.

They genuinely don’t see the contradiction."

So Nevada and Kentucky also ended up with 'bad apples'? Just a few, right John?

"The reason these arguments are inherently ridiculous is that if you live in America, you have a pretty good chance of being in some way or another dependent upon government aid. Whether it’s aerospace or military contracting or farm subsidies or grants in academia, medicine or the arts… most of us are in some way living off of this spending, directly or indirectly. Defense spending in particular has been a primary engine of American capitalism for more than half a century now. And government subsidies of agriculture and financial services have begun to rival defense largesse.

All of which would normally make it unfair for any journalist to go after a politician for taking government aid. After all, pretty much everybody has in some way or another lived off the government in his life – whether by working in a firm that takes government contracts, or attending a state school, or getting into a college thanks to affirmative action programs, or serving in the military or law enforcement, or collecting Medicare or food stamps or unemployment."

John, take off the blinders and see the contradiction. Even here, we have people who are collecting disability; government pensions; and have collected unemployment insurance, who will say that it is okay for them, but not for others.

John, put on your glasses, Frank was talking about the "green" (small 'g') Tea Party - not the Green Party.

Bea,
Allen Hevesi, a Democrat State Controller, has just been convicted of a felony. Does that mean all Democrats are felons? Robert Byrd, a former Senator from West Virgina was a member of the KKK. Does that mean all Democrats are racist? Jesse JAckson makes anti Jewish statements, are all Democrats anti Jewish? Obama got more money from BP than any other politician, does that mean all Democrats are in the pocket of big oil?

John,
I never said that the Democrats are spotless. But, your examples do bring up an interesting point. The Democrats don't circle the wagons and protect those who deserve NOT to be in office because of felonies, racism, etc.
While not a big deal outside the beltway, the foreign money pouring into private groups who support the GOP is way more than the Democrats will ever hope to collect. That is a scandal just waiting to break open. Where will you sit on that one? Turn the blind eye?
Notice that in Alaska, Kentucky, Nevada and here in NY, the GOP is heralding those who don't mind taking what they perceive to be theirs at the expense of those they perceive to be not worthy.
By the way, one person on this site openly claimed that collecting unemployment insurance was a "right" since that person believed (wrongly) that he had paid into it.
Yet, that same person has often commented that the parasites should not receive the same benefit. That is a Tea Party mantra.
You are still drinking from the stagnant pool if you can't concede that GOP has embraced the Tea Party candidates (and you will most likely vote for Kinky Carl) warts and all.
It's fine for them to take from the very programs that they will deny others if in office.

Posted by bud prevost on October 16, 2010 - 12:24pm
Bea? Sarcastic? Surely you jest

To quote an old movie, "My name isn't Shirley".

Bea,
Democrats don't circle the wagons? You're not serious are you? Does the name Charlie Rangel sound familiar? Jerry Brown's campaign just called his opponent a "whore", and your party does not even condemn it. Two of your parties candidates for the US Senate flat out lied about their military background, and your party rallied around them.

Foreign money? You must have a selective poor memory to have forgotten the Chinese money Clinton got. Obama took money from BP, a foreign company and also disabled the software that would have helped track where some of his money came from.

You also are too myopic to see that many Democrats are also supporting some of the Tea Party. Unlike you, many Democrats are feed up with the way things are going and want reform.

I get the feeling that you want our readers to believe that the Republicans have not contributed to the perceived decline of our country.
Do you consider REPUBLICAN PEDOPHILIA part of this decline? This is more than just a few bad apples.
I wonder how many, here, who railed against local pedophiles but support the GOP, will brush all this under the rug.
•Republican aide, Alan David Berlin, was arrested on charges that he wanted to engage in sex acts with a 15 year old boy while dressed in a panda costume.
•Fox News producer Aaron Bruns pleaded guilty and was sentenced to 10 years for possessing child pornography.
•Republican activist and former presidential campaign chairman Jeffrey Claude Bartleson was arrested on charges of sexually molesting a 5-year old boy.
•Republican activist and former chairman of the Christian County Republicans Royce Fessenden pleaded guilty to two counts of first-degree child molestation and one count of second-degree statutory sodomy.
•Republican parole board officer and former legislator George Christian (Chris) Ortloff pleaded guilty to attempting to lure 11- and 12-year-old girls to have sex with him.
•Republican legislative aide Robert R. Groezinger pleaded guilty to possessing child pornography.
•Republican legislator Robert A. McKee pleaded guilty to possessing child pornography.
•Republican chief of staff Eric Feltner pleaded guilty to showing pornography to a 13-year old girl.
•Republican presidential campaign official Matthew Joseph Elliott was convicted of sexual exploitation of a child.
•Republican city councilman John Bryan killed himself after police began investigating allegations that he had molested three girls, including two of his adopted daughters, ages 12 and 15.
•Republican legislator Ted Klaudt was charged with raping girls under the age of 16.
•Republican city councilman Joseph Monteleone Jr. was found guilty of fondling underage girls.
•Republican congressional aide Jeffrey Nielsen was arrested for having sex with a 14-year old boy.
•Republican County Commissioner Patrick Lee McGuire surrendered to police after allegedly molesting girls between the ages of 8 and 13.
•Republican prosecutor Larry Corrigan was arrested for soliciting sex from 13-year old girls.
•Republican Mayor Jeffrey Kyle Randall was sentenced to 275 days in jail for molesting two boys -- ages ten and 12 -- during a six-year period.
•Republican County Board Candidate Brent Schepp was charged with molesting a 14-year old girl and killed himself three days later.
•Republican Congressman Mark Foley abruptly resigned from Congress after "sexually explicit" emails surfaced showing him flirting with a 16-year old boy.
•Republican executive Randall Casseday of the conservative Washington Times newspaper pleaded guilty to soliciting sex from a 13-year old girl on the internet.
•Republican chairman of the Oregon Christian Coalition Lou Beres confessed to molesting a 13-year old girl.
•Republican County Constable Larry Dale Floyd pleaded guilty to charges of soliciting sex from an 8-year old girl. Floyd has repeatedly won elections for Denton County, Texas, constable.
•Republican judge Mark Pazuhanich pleaded no contest to fondling a 10-year old girl and was sentenced to 10 years probation.
•Republican Party leader Bobby Stumbo was arrested for having sex with a 5-year old boy.
•Republican petition drive manager Tom Randall pleaded guilty to molesting two girls under the age of 14, one of them the daughter of an associate in the petition business.
•Republican County Chairman Armando Tebano pleaded guilty to fondling a 14-year-old girl.
•Republican teacher and former city councilman John Collins pleaded guilty to sexually molesting 13 and 14 year old girls.
•Republican campaign worker Mark Seidensticker is a convicted child molester.
•Republican Mayor Philip Giordano is serving a 37-year sentence in federal prison for sexually abusing 8- and 10-year old girls.
•Republican Mayor Tom Adams was arrested for distributing child pornography over the internet.
•Republican Mayor John Gosek was arrested on charges of soliciting sex from two 15-year old girls.
•Republican County Commissioner David Swartz pleaded guilty to molesting two girls under the age of 11 and was sentenced to 8 years in prison.
•Republican legislator Edison Misla Aldarondo was sentenced to 10 years in prison for raping his daughter between the ages of 9 and 17.
•Republican Committeeman John R. Curtain was charged with molesting a teenage boy and unlawful sexual contact with a minor.
•Republican anti-abortion activist Howard Scott Heldreth is a convicted child rapist in Florida.
•Republican zoning supervisor, Boy Scout leader and Lutheran church president Dennis L. Rader pleaded guilty to performing a sexual act on an 11-year old girl he murdered.
•Republican anti-abortion activist Nicholas Morency pleaded guilty to possessing child pornography on his computer and offering a bounty to anybody who murders an abortion doctor.
•Republican campaign consultant Tom Shortridge was sentenced to three years probation for taking nude photographs of a 15-year old girl.
•Republican racist pedophile and United States Senator Strom Thurmond had sex with a 15-year old black girl which produced a child.
•Republican pastor Mike Hintz, whom George W. Bush commended during the 2004 presidential campaign, surrendered to police after admitting to a sexual affair with a female juvenile.
•Republican legislator Peter Dibble pleaded no contest to having an inappropriate relationship with a 13-year-old girl.
•Republican advertising consultant Carey Lee Cramer was sentenced to six years in prison for molesting two 8-year old girls, one of whom appeared in an anti-Gore television commercial.
•Republican fundraiser Lawrence E. King, Jr. organized child sex parties at the White House during the 1980s.
•Republican lobbyist Craig J. Spence organized child sex parties at the White House during the 1980s.
•Republican Congressman Donald "Buz" Lukens was found guilty of having sex with a female minor and sentenced to one month in jail.
•Republican fundraiser Richard A. Delgaudio was found guilty of child porn charges and paying two teenage girls to pose for sexual photos.
•Republican activist Mark A. Grethen convicted on six counts of sex crimes involving children.
•Republican campaign chairman Randal David Ankeney pleaded guilty to attempted sexual assault on a child and was arrested again five years later on the same charge.
•Republican Congressman Dan Crane had sex with a female minor working as a congressional page.
•Republican activist and Christian Coalition leader Beverly Russell admitted to an incestuous relationship with his step daughter.
•Republican Judge Ronald C. Kline pleaded guilty to possession of child pornography on his home computer.
•Republican congressman and anti-gay activist Robert Bauman was charged with having sex with a 16-year-old boy he picked up at a gay bar.
•Republican Committee Chairman Jeffrey Patti was arrested for distributing a video clip of a 5-year-old girl being raped.
•Republican activist Marty Glickman (a.k.a. "Republican Marty"), was taken into custody by Florida police on four counts of unlawful sexual activity with an underage girl and one count of delivering the drug LSD.
•Republican legislative aide Howard L. Brooks was charged with molesting a 12-year old boy and possession of child pornography.
•Republican Senate candidate John Hathaway was accused of having sex with his 12-year old baby sitter and withdrew his candidacy after the allegations were reported in the media.
•Republican preacher Stephen White, who demanded a return to traditional values, was sentenced to jail after offering $20 to a 14-year-old boy for permission to perform oral sex on him.
•Republican talk show host Jon Matthews pleaded guilty to exposing his genitals to an 11 year old girl.
•Republican anti-gay activist Earl "Butch" Kimmerling was sentenced to 40 years in prison for molesting an 8-year old girl after he attempted to stop a gay couple from adopting her.
•Republican Party leader Paul Ingram pleaded guilty to six counts of raping his daughters and served 14 years in federal prison.
•Republican election board official Kevin Coan was sentenced to two years probation for soliciting sex over the internet from a 14-year old girl.
•Republican politician Andrew Buhr was charged with two counts of first degree sodomy with a 13-year old boy.
•Republican legislator Keith Westmoreland was arrested on seven felony counts of lewd and lascivious exhibition to girls under the age of 16 (i.e. exposing himself to children).
•Republican anti-abortion activist John Allen Burt was found guilty of molesting a 15-year old girl.
•Republican County Councilman Keola Childs pleaded guilty to molesting a male child.
•Republican activist John Butler was charged with criminal sexual assault on a teenage girl.
•Republican candidate Richard Gardner admitted to molesting his two daughters.
•Republican Councilman and former Marine Jack W. Gardner was convicted of molesting a 13-year old girl.
•Republican County Commissioner Merrill Robert Barter pleaded guilty to unlawful sexual contact and assault on a teenage boy.
•Republican City Councilman Fred C. Smeltzer, Jr. pleaded no contest to raping a 15 year-old girl and served 6-months in prison.
•Republican activist Parker J. Bena pleaded guilty to possession of child pornography on his home computer and was sentenced to 30 months in federal prison and fined $18,000.
•Republican parole board officer and former Colorado state representative, Larry Jack Schwarz, was fired after child pornography was found in his possession.
•Republican strategist and Citadel Military College graduate Robin Vanderwall was convicted in Virginia on five counts of soliciting sex from boys and girls over the internet.
•Republican city councilman Mark Harris, who is described as a "good military man" and "church goer," was convicted of repeatedly having sex with an 11-year-old girl and sentenced to 12 years in prison.
•Republican businessman Jon Grunseth withdrew his candidacy for Minnesota governor after allegations surfaced that he went swimming in the nude with four underage girls, including his daughter.
•Republican campaign worker, police officer and self-proclaimed reverend Steve Aiken was convicted of having sex with two underage girls.
•Republican director of the "Young Republican Federation" Nicholas Elizondo molested his 6-year old daughter and was sentenced to six years in prison.
•Republican president of the New York City Housing Development Corp. Russell Harding pleaded guilty to possessing child pornography on his computer.
•Republican benefactor of conservative Christian groups, Richard A. Dasen Sr., was found guilty of raping a 15-year old girl. Dasen, 62, who is married with grown children and several grandchildren, has allegedly told police that over the past decade he paid more than $1 million to have sex with a large number of young women.
•Republican Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld authorized the rape of children in Iraqi prisons in order to humiliate their parents into providing information about the anti-American insurgency. See excerpt of one prisoner's report here and his full report here.

John, I DON'T LIKE THE TEA PARTY, They are republicans in disguise.Where did you get the idea that I favored them? When Clinton left office, what was the debt? nothing like it is now, blame Obama all you want, but almost to an item, he inherited a republican mess.
I can't say I blame republicans for trying to hide their affiliations.

Bea,
You have gone off the deep end? But to be fair:

Democratic State Senator Dan Sutton of Flandreau, South Dakota accused of fondling a male page.

Carl Stanley McGee, 38, prominent gay activist, assistant secretary for policy and planning and top aid to Democrat governor Deval Patrick of Massachusetts, accused of sexually assaulting a 15 year old boy in a steam room at a Florida resort.

Bernard Vincent Ward, former chief legislative aide to Senator Barbara Boxer, self proclaimed "Lion of the Left" on bay area radio, admitted transgressions too numerous to mention.

Davidson County Democratic Party Chairman Rodney Mullins resigned amid child pornography allegations, according to press secretary Jean Carter Wilson of the Davidson County Democratic Party.

Former Democrat Boston city councilor David Scondras is facing charges for attempting to lure a teenage boy over the Internet. Investigators said Scondras had several sexually explicit email exchanges with someone he thought was a 15-year-old boy.

Andrew Douglas Reed, 53, a North Carolina Democrat activist plead guilty to a page-long list of counts of 2nd-degree sexual exploitation of a minor. Court records in the Asheville, N.C., case said he admitted that he would "record, develop and duplicate material containing a visual representation of a minor engaging in sexual activity."

Scott W. Ballo, a long-time spokesman for various Democratic political campaigns and a former communications director for the Oregon Economic and Community Development Department, was arraigned in Marion County Circuit Court on two charges of encouraging child sex abuse (both misdemeanors) and one charge of official misconduct (also a misdemeanor), according to the court clerk's office. The charges relate to pornography allegedly found on Ballo's work computer when he was employed by the economic and community development department, according to a person familiar with the case.

Mel Reynolds, House of Representatives (D-Il) convicted on 12 counts of sexual assault, obstruction of justice and solicitation of child pornography resulting from a sexual relationship with a 16-year-old campaign volunteer.

I am sure somebody will google a longer list of Democrats who are child molesters and rapists also.

But does that mean all Democrats are child molesters and rapists? Does that mean if a Democrat office holder molested a child, and you vote for any Democrat, you support child molesting? That's what you imply, and I don't agree.

And, you didn't answer the questions about Rangel, Clinton or Obama's money from BP. Or why Democrats support some of the Tea Party because they want reform.

Frank,
For the debt, I blame them all from Johnson to Obama, Republican and Democrat.

It started out of control with Johnson and the "Great Society" and not taxing to pay for Viet Nam, just like Bush didn't pay for Iraq/Afghanistan and just like Obama is not paying for Afghanistan or Iraq.

And as for the myth that Clinton balanced the budget, you should know by now that is a lie. The Republican Congress and Clinton kept SS, Medicare and Military spending "off line". They didn't count it in the budget.

The simple fact is there was a surplus and the figures are on table 1.1 here http://www.gpoaccess.gov/usbudget/fy05/hist.html The ON BUDGET surplus/deficit column clearly shows a 1.873 Billion surplus for FY99 and 86.626 Billion for FY00.

It is only from a surplus in ON-BUDGET revenues can the debt truly be paid down. The spread between Clinton's 87 billion surplus and Bush's 570 billion deficit is nearly a 655 BILLION drop in revenues.

Bea,
Don't forget to answer the questions (again).

By the way, since some Catholic priests have been found guilty of child abuse, are you now saying that anyone who goes to a Catholic Church supports child abuse?
That's the same comparison as your Republican one.

And is your insinuation that anyone who votes Republican supports Child abuse your personal opinion, or your opinion as a Democratic Party committee person?

As for your version of the debt, since both Obama and Bush have the cost of the wars "off budget", how does it get paid off if only ON BUDGET items can be paid off?

John, we can go on and on in a circular dance and never coime to an agreement. Yes, the bad apples are on both sides.
I've conceded that, something you refuse to do.
The reforms you claim the Tea Party candidates will enact will destroy this country. Axing most of the departments that run our country may sound appealing, but for every action there is a reaction. The Tea Party folk (regardless of affiliation)haven't thought beyond the attractive sound bite.
Let's call it a grand experiment. Eliminate most of the government programs; close down the departments that insure the safety of our environment, food and pharmaceuticals. Can you be sure, absolute sure, that big business is going to self police itself?
What will stop corporations from dumping contaminates into our lakes and rivers? The bottom line will be much better without the cost of safely disposing of contaminates.
What will stop food processors from adding more filler to their products or eliminating the QA required by the FDA? The bottom line will be much better when food processors don't have to deal with reguations.
Won't the bottom line be better for business if there isn't a minimum wage? Will that result in more people being in a lower economic class since they won't be working for a living wage?
Elminate the aid to education and only the rich can afford college. Is that the reform you seek?
Which, of course, brings us to that lower economic class.
What satisfaction do you and the those who support the Tea Party get in knowing you are resigning people, our own citizens, to a poverty level in order to enact your reforms?

Posted by John Roach on October 17, 2010 - 1:26pm

As for your version of the debt, since both Obama and Bush have the cost of the wars "off budget", how does it get paid off if only ON BUDGET items can be paid off?

I guess this chart isn't accurate either.
http://www.lafn.org/gvdc/Natl_Debt_Chart.html

Bea,
I never said the Tea Party would fix everything, you made that up.

I also never said I was for the elimination of all government departments. You just made that up (again).

I do know that at the State level, you and the Democrats have had total control, and we are worse off now than before they took over. You have not fixed anything in Albany and I just don't think you should be given another chance right now. Maybe later.

Howard,
I have no idea why Bea brought sexual misconduct into this, maybe she will explain why?

"The demagogue is one who preaches doctrines he knows to be untrue to men he knows to be idiots." H.L. Menken

Bea, I'm really surprised at the turn you took on this one. Going to some lefty source and finding someone who has taken the time to compile a list of Republicans who have been accused of sexual misconduct adds nothing to the debate. If one were to take the time, a list equally as long could be posted about Democratic perverts. The only person who has stepped up and defended their no vote was Diane. Unfortunately, I think the concept was missed. No one is saying that the citizens of America are not patriotic, resourceful, motivated, and masters of ingenuity. From that aspect we have the greatest citizens on this globe, but that has nothing to do with the path our country is on. We are a nation of great citizens being lead in the wrong direction.

Jeff, you summed it all up in one short sentence, the last one.

John, I didn't say you advocated those reforms, but they ARE the reforms being put to the public by those who are advocating the Tea Party agenda.
While people may want 'reforms', do you really believe that they have considered the consequences? That was my point.
As far as party affiliation or my position within the local committee (which is just one small voice), I am speaking for myself - not my affiliation or the committee. Why is it you feel it important to bring that up. Do you feel it denigrates any private opinion I may hold or do you perceive that to be your last ace in the hole when you want the last word?
The issues that should be discussed, be it local or on a state or federal level, are the proposed 'reforms' and how they will effect us.
Can you promise those who lean toward the Tea Party candidates that their taxes will be reduced; that there will be a chicken in every pot; and that life will be rosy?

Does anyone remember when the term "doublespeak' came about? I do, very well. Now I just have it as an expected response to what I am hearing when too many politicians ( yes,even my own party)explain something. What do I then do? NOT being highly intelligent but still curious about what is happening around me, that which may affect me or my world I read. I read alot. I get frustrated, sometimes so angry due to feeling ineffective by just casting my vote.I USED to believe my one vote could make a difference. It was what has kept me an active voter. I have voted out of my party at the local and state level many a time because I just knew the person I cast my vote for, who I read and read up on, was the better choice. I think the bickering about what was done by what party member (pertaining to non political fiasco) seems to have us wallowing in some 'who cares!' territory, I read up to try and learn more about WHY, HOW and 'as an improvement is it even feasible as a long term plan?' put out there by who is running. Everybody is taking shots but NOT touting who they have a strong heartfelt confidence in. Who they want to step in place and WHY they are behind them. I feel defeated about casting my vote in November and it makes me mad.

Bea,
You have been all over the map on this.

First, on 10/16, you said everyone who supports a Tea Party backed candidate wants to eliminate all government departments, citing some random blog. That was not true and you know it. While some Tea Party members might support such ideas, that's like saying all Democrats want even more and bigger government and higher taxes. A few Dems do, but not all. Then you backtracked.

Then, yesterday, 10/17, you flat out said Democrats don't circle the wagon and protect people caught doing wrong. They just don't do it. Of course, that was a lie and you refused to explain just a few of the examples I gave you like Rep. Charlie Rangel.

Then you said if you support Republicans, you support child molesting. That was not only stupid, but of course not true (again). When asked why you brought that line up, out of the clear blue, you refuse to answer, again. I am sure your answer would be interesting.

I also asked if your sex molester analogy carries over to Catholics just because of a few bad priests. And again, you refuse to answer. That answer would be interesting also.

You also refused to answer simple, direct, questions to things you brought up, like foreign money used by your party (Clinton and Obama with BP), while saying the other side is doing it. Seems a bit one sided, again.

As for your party position, I just wanted to know if that insinuation that Republicans support child molesters was just yours.

I think the entire argument only proves one fact, politicians from both sides of the fence have lost their morals, which comes as no surprise as the ACLU has been hacking away at the moral fiber of this nation for decades. I don't place blame entirely on the ACLU, it is shared by the higer courts who rule in their favor in the name of freedom. The only freedoms that are guarenteed are the freedom to live without morals.
As far as voting goes, I have not seen an ideal candidate in a long, long time. This may be the year I quit voting. None of those seeking, or already in office appeal to me.None of them represent, or stand for anything that would make my life better, or improve my economic status.

Frank,
Politicians have not lost their morals, some people have.

Most politicians, just like most people, go about their jobs, mind their own business and stay out of trouble. In fact, the majority of politicians are only part time, serving on town boards. library boards, etc. They are us.

John is right. Most people who are cast as “politicians” serve on local boards and gain absolutely nothing for doing so. They are just normal people who try to do their best.

There is such a growing negative image of people who do serve; you would have to have lost your mind to take the job. In general, most people consider people in political office just as they are being portrayed in this blog, as crooks or perverts. That image is scaring away anyone normal from running for office and a big reason our country is on the decline.

The political atmosphere is poison, no one in their right mind would serve at this point.

Diane, the real problem, in my humble opinion, is that you, me and a few others are in the very small minority. Reading up on and studying politicians' positions and histories is great and necessary to making an informed decision on who to vote for. Hardly anyone does it, quite frankly it's boring and time-consuming. Most folks would rather read a novel or watch the idiot box,(me too). I can accept that some folks have a different viewpoint than me, they're wrong but that's their right. I get irritated and sometimes angry, though I try not to let it go that far; when you hear obviously re-gurgitated rhetoric from some talk show host, web site or commentator, instead of an informed opinion. The political schemers from all sides know this and try to be louder than the rest. Most voters just go in and vote either by a party line or for whoever's name they recognize the most, or whoever their father, buddy, Uncle Joe, Rush Limbaugh or Bill Press told them to vote for.

As for November 2, if you are wondering which Governor Candidate is worthy of your vote, there is a candidate's debate tonight at 7 PM with all 7 candidates. It'll be on WBFO 88.7 FM (for free, Yay for NPR) or on http://www.newsday.com/; http://www.news12.com/Login/home_login?regionId=3

which you have to be a subscriber to watch, It's $ 4.95 for a month if you're not.

Thanks, Dave. I have it now marked on my online calender for today as 'Cuomo/ Paladino at Hofstra U on WBFO 88.7FM'. I tend to get bogged down on the NPR non-radio site. My normal perusal of daily political updates has been disrupted. In a good way though:)

John, Charlie, I'm not talking about those who serve as town supervisors, or justices of the peace, I 'm talking about polished, career politicians, you know, the ones who can spend millions of dollars to get elected, these guys are so far off the beaten path, they wouldn't know hardship if they created it. How can millionaires possibly represent people they have no clue about? I would love to see an average Joe in a high political office, he probably wouldn't waste the taxpayers money, because he has never had enough of his own money to ever waste.He had to be shrewd spending his money, get something for every dollar spent. Probably something I'll never see in my lifetime, a politician who ain't no fortunate son.

Frank, you put in your comment 'As far as voting goes, I have not seen an ideal candidate in a long, long time. This may be the year I quit voting'. Please, don't ever NOT cast your vote. I remind myself in the voting years when I am having a hard time finding a person I want in place ( this year) that its a right by law ( and IMO a privilege) that we get to vote. There are people all over the world that don't have that right. Its a no brainer for me then. Though I don't think it will be an exciting voting day for me I will vote on November 2nd.

To make democracy work, we must be a nation of participants, not simply observers. One who does not vote has no right to complain.
Louis L'Amour

I do so like to complain...