Supporting the sponsors who support The Batavian

We have been to O'Lacy's Pub and Margarita's thanks to your website.

I discovered The Batavian last year on the Dwyer Stadium wall. (may have been 2 summers ago actually)

I love seeing the local ads on here

honestly, there are times I use the Batavian simply to find the information on your sponsors...it makes it easier to support local businesses when I can find them quickly! Thanks Howard!

Howard, when it comes to Batavia you are the pusher and we are helpless addicts. Have mercy on our souls, Dude.
Oliver's is the best Candy in the World, and I won't forget it ever. I used to like those onion rings at Your Host too, but that has nothing to do with the best Candy in the world from Oliver's. Or does it? I'll bet Batavians can find an Oliver's connection to ghosts, Obama and extra teresstial life. That's why I love them so much, just like you do. Dude.

I support the Batavian in many ways. But I didn't see my shop listed as one to support. Maybe just an oversight.

THANK ALL YOU SPONSERS OF THE BATAVIAN I HAVE THE BATAVIAN BUMPER STICKER ON MY VEHICLE HERE IN ARIZONA.

Against my better judgement I decided to shop locally for a relatively expensive item (roughly $1,000 in all) several weeks ago. As I suspected the store I visited didn't have what I needed in stock but told me they could order it and I would have it in plenty of time for when it was needed. Long story short - they didn't stay on top of the situation, it didn't come in despite repeated promises to the contrary and I ended up going to Rochester to buy said item the evening before I needed it.

Fortunately for me, I walked into a National Chain, there was a large selection in stock to choose from and the sales staff saw to it that I walked out the door shortly thereafter with the merchandise in hand. In regards to the local business, I am now part of the 12% category of dissatisfied customers that every business dreads.

Kevin, your frustration is understandable, but localism remains key to rebuilding our communities. We need to keep our money local. The deck is stacked against community sustainability, but it wasn't always that way; effort is required to reclaim our share. Reversing a trend, two or more generations in the making is an uphill climb; it involves re-thinking buying habits and sacrifice. Distributors have commitments to large retailers- let the manufacturer know that you want to buy locally. Manufacturers need to hear that a sale is contingent on local availability. Ultimately, one bad experience should not sour you on the importance of localism.

Walmart is about to launch a new attack on local economies- Mini WalMart is coming to a community near you. Don't avoid the comparison to Dr. Evil's diminutive clone. Mini Walmart is another hose siphoning our cash to Bentonville, Arkansas.

Then I guess some local businesses need to do a better job in regards to Customer Service.

I'm not defending Wal-mart, but I have done a lot of comparison shopping, and hands down, Wal-Marts prices give me the biggest bang for my dollar. Are you guys, Howard, and CM, suggesting we should shop locally, and pay more for merchandise we can get cheaper at Wal-Mart?
I don't know about anyone else, but my budget demands I get the products I use for the absolute lowest price. If I could get everything I need in one trip, at the most competitive price, thats where I have to shop, at the present time, WalMart is the only retailer that fits my criteria.

Frank, you get what you pay for. Wal-mart forces their suppliers to cheapen their products in order to meet price demands. The result is that you'll get less mileage out of the things you buy from Wal-mart than the things you pay 10% more for elsewhere. Now, if we're talking about toothpaste then maybe it's not a big deal, but when it comes to say, a lawnmower, there's a discernible difference.

I'm sure Howard has the relevant link at his fingertips.

Frank, you need to understand the full ramifications of taking advantage of Walmart's lower pricing. It may save you a few dollars at the register, but it raises your taxes, shutters local businesses and puts your neighbors in the unemployment line. You end up paying more in the long run.

Count the number of local hardware stores, local groceries and appliance stores that have succumbed to the big boxes ushered into our communities on a red carpet of tax subsidies, deferrals and other incentives. Who pays the taxes that the Walmarts defer? You do. Who pays for the workers who's jobs are lost when their employer closes up? You do. Who pays for the loss of tax revenue on vacant buildings that used to be profitable businesses? You do. Who pays for the uninsured part time Walmart employees when they visit the emergency room because they can't afford a doctor? You do.

You will discover that the cost difference between Walmart prices and the cost of losing local businesses is not a value.

Fair enough Howard, I'll put up the link myself. I've always felt that this story is a perfect analogy for why discerning consumers should think twice about making important purchases at the big box stores.

http://www.fastcompany.com/magazine/102/open_snapper.html

http://blog.wakeupwalmart.com/ufcw/2010/04/the-kind-of-ana.html

What Frank is saying, and to which you all seem to turn a blind eye, is that there are people who can't afford to shop locally for big ticket items.
I guess the "patriotic" thing to do is go without. If you can't afford a computer from a locally owned store, then you shouldn't have one. If you can't afford a refrigerator from a locally owned store, then you shouldn't have one.
Shopping locally is the ideal solution. I think we all wish we could.
Wal-Mart and the other big box stores, add to class warfare. If you shop at a big box store then you are in a lower class, and certainly part of the economic downturn, then those who can afford to shop locally for big ticket items.
It becomes a struggle between the haves and the have nots. How dare a 'have not' purchase, from a big box store, what the haves can afford to buy locally?
The irony is that the quality of the product is not always better than the big box store. The same amount of cheap plastic can be found in both.
There are some locally owned stores that make a real effort to provide customer service - your list of sponsors are a good indication of those businesses. There are others that haven't jumped on the band wagon to merge buying locally with true customer service. It is all well and good to lecture the consumer, but the dealers need to be reminded of their responsibility as well.
I'm sure your advertisers agree that one locally owned business that fails to provide reliable customer service hurts all locally owned business.

Frank is right to a point. And now that the Democrats in Albany have raised the price of clothes by another 4%, with a higher sales tax, even more people on a limited budget will have to shop at a box store to save a bit of what money they still have.

John, since you are bringing politics into this, why not reference the taxes that the GOP has foisted on us when they were in office.
Are you saying it never happened?

Bea,
In New York, this the first time in recent history one party, Democrats, have been in control of everything. They had the chance to cut the budget or to at least freeze spending. They didn't. They raised spending and raised taxes on clothes 4%. They couldn't even pass it on time!

When they were in the majority, Republicans in the State Senate went along with Democrats most of the time to raise taxes, and they lost the majority. Now, it's time to vote out the Democrats.

I'm talking about brand name items as well as household items, I've done the comparison shopping, item for item, the best buys are at WalMart. I will give an example without naming a retailer, or product; I purchased a product at a local retailer, who specializes in the product,the same product,(brand) was available at WalMart for about 5% less. When the product I purchased locally broke, the retailer wanted to charge me half the cost of the original sale price to fix it. A year or so later, I purchased the product at WalMart, when it broke, WalMart replaced it,free.When the locals can match that type of service, I'll be there in a heartbeat.
Bea, you're absolutely right, some off us just cannot afford to buy locally,after being unemployed for almost 2 years, I have to get every bit of savings available.
The only way that will change is when we get good paying jobs back in western N.Y.,and I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for that to happen.

CM, you're suggesting,if I shop local, my taxes will go down, there will be more jobs, and everyone will have health insurance? How long will this process take? I live in the now world, I can't afford to pay more for anything, and I will not pay more for the sake of a local economy that has no future. I understand what you are saying, but it's a little late in the game to think it would make a difference now.
Would the same hold true for McDonalds, Wendy's, Burger King? they are corporations similiar to WalMart.
Again,it comes down to opportunities, and the last time I checked, $8 - $9 an hour jobs are the majority in this area, so good luck buying what you can't afford locally. My tax bill doesn't change based on where I shop, when it does, so will I.

Bea, I have seen Doctors, and lawyers shopping at WalMart, it has nothing to do with class warfare, its called being thrifty, and when our state reps learn this practice, maybe we can all shop locally again.

I'm suggesting that there are outcomes, many unanticipated, to how consumers apply their buying power.

As innocent as "shoppers cards AKA loyalty cards" appear, (those cards scanned to access the lower pricing tier at retailers such as Tops and Wegmans) they record data about our buying habits that is sold to consumer data bases.

CVS' (Headquartered in Woonsocket, RI) ExtraCare program has increased that chain's customer base by 30 million shoppers and added $12 billion annual revenue. Can local druggists compete? No, the extensive hardware and software implementation necessary to operate card systems is cost prohibitive.

Consumers who utilize shoppers cards surrender private information, open themselves up to further invasion of privacy by telemarketers and direct-mail solicitation. The ultimate question: Does the surrender net savings? No.

Since bar-coding replaced price tags, retailers have been able to whimsically manipulate pricing. Most consumers are aware that a MSRP (Manufacturers Suggested Retail Price) exists, and retailers typically sell below that cost. Prior to shoppers cards, retailers competed with each other in pricing. Arcane barcodes paved the way for the advent of shoppers cards. Since then the battle for better pricing pits customer against customer- those with/without a shoppers card. Both are actually losers; the card shopper pays the retailers best price (which in the "old days" would have been the sticker price) and the non-card shopper pays more.

Not to be overlooked, the card shopper surrenders personal information, is solicited by telemarketers and junk-mail advertisers and unwittingly allows the retailer to profit from their surrender of privacy.

The other outcome- retailers who cannot afford to implement the shopper card scam get a blackeye for not offering customers a shoppers card.

...Realize that all businesses seek to be profitable. Manufacturers and distributors sell identical products at the same cost to all their customers. Larger chains surely get a quantity discount, but that discount is eroded by higher overhead costs. Most product savings are associated with generic brands that cut corners to compete with the name brand product. ...Packaging is cheaper, labor is cheaper, container is cheaper; sometimes the product is lower quality.

We as consumers have to be savvy when we shop- be aware of how and why we are being manipulated to choose one retailer over another. We need to know the outcomes of buying local as opposed to buying from a retailer based out of state. We need to know the outcomes of buying products made in New York, the United States or another country.

When New York State announces a $9 billion budget gap, our first thought is stop spending so much. We need to also consider, if I send all my dollars to Bentonville, Arkansas instead of Batavia, NY, I am part of the problem.

CM,
When you buy a GM car, the money goes out of state, just like shopping at K-Mart, Wal-Mart, Target, Office Depot, etc., sends money out of state.

Maybe much lower NY corporate and business taxes, to draw company headquarters to NY, would help. Albany is the problem, not where I shop.

Howard, not that I disagree with your generalization, I think it would be accurate to say we were lead down that path by big business. And the demarcation of post- World War II is apt. The propaganda and counter propaganda techniques applied in Nazi Germany and subsequently studied and directed by the Allies became the advertising science of modern Wall Street. ...Subliminal images, re-touched (enlarged) pupils on models' eyes to imply sexual interest, stereotype studies, brand placement- fascinating and sinister.

John, when you paraphrase me, please be accurate. I said PART of the problem. Yes, buying a GM car sends money elsewhere, but GM had/has plants in numerous states- like Delco in Rochester, GM Powertrain in Tonawanda and the former LeRoy Tool. The impact is pervasive.

Again, my question goes unanswered,I can't afford to pay a higher price for a local item. I have been comparison shopping for the last 3 years, and my dollar goes furthest at WalMart. I am a victim of a lousy economy, not a Wal Mart conspiritor. If I don't keep self interest, who is going to offset my budget for paying more than I have to. Say what you will, but I don't see a quick fix coming anytime soon. And according to my tax bill, Batavia is getting plenty of my money, I just wish they shared the same customer service ideals as WalMart.

CM,
Wow, this is the first time I have seen modern advertising is based on Nazi propaganda. Can you post the source for us?

While on the subject of automobiles, prior to the mergers that lead to 5, 4 and 3 U. S. manufacturers, New York State manufactured several makes: notably the Franklin produced in Syracuse from 1902 through 1934. Syracuse had numerous automobile manufacturers.

The Ajax Motor Vehicle Co. of Buffalo produced an electric car from 1901 - 1903. Genesee Motor Co. located in Batavia manufactured limousines in 1912 with a wheelbase of 148 inches and 43 inch x 5 inch wheels and tires. The Genesee was equipped with a six cylinder engine, 564 cubic inch displacement and featured electric lights, compressed air starter, two spare tires and a gradometer. The eight passenger Genesee Touring Car with a torpedo type body was priced at $2,000.00. A $10,000 Limousine was also produced.

Dansville had the Klink Motor Car, Buffalo had many makes including the Pierce-Arrow, Thomas Flyer and Playboy; Rochester had several, best known, the Cunningham and Selden. In fact any town of size had businesses manufacturing vehicles ranging from cars to tractors, motorcycles, airplanes and bicycles.

The source was my communications professor, Hannah Wortenburg, who was employed in German war propaganda until she defected to the U. S. and helped with Counter-propaganda. And, although, propaganda history may go back eons, the tie-in with modern media did not occur until radio (yes, WW I, but note the importance of accounting radio sets in the 1930 U. S. census) and television became common household items. Many technological advances are founded in the execution of warfare. It's the application of those technologies that determine value judgments.

CM,
So where and who is your tie in with our modern advertising and the Nazi propaganda? I would have hoped it was based on more than one college professor.

John, it's not that hard to research this stuff- have you a search engine on your computer? There are tons of books on the subject; here's one essay among hundreds:

http://www.lkwdpl.org/wildideas/propaganda.html

Howard,
Thank you.

I would like to give a shout out to Mary Margaret at the Scratch Bakery in Leroy. The cookie cake was delicious, and huge!! It was also nice to be able to show my seven year old the importance of shopping local. We now have a face to put with the place, and we will recommend you to everyone!