The poll fails to confront the 'real' question. For private corporations that receive public grants and/or tax deferrals, should a quid pro quo exist? Communities do not invest in a corporate presence for aesthetic purposes- a new facade in a corporate park. When public funds are invested in private enterprise, waving property taxes, providing grant money; reciprocity is expected. The lead agency in the agreement with PepsiCo is GCEDC. If Hyde, et al, have not put some teeth in this agreement, haven't established some enforceable terms for local hiring; trust between the GCEDC and Genesee County taxpayers has been violated. Genesee County might better have bought a few thousand shares of PepsiCo stock rather than forfeit a decade's tax revenue in exchange for a new building. This project was sold as a boon to local dairy farmers and promise of jobs. The boon to local farmers part has been essentially deflated. What about the jobs? What is the return on Genesee County taxpayers' investment? Ten years from now when yoghurt treats are passe' will Genesee County have another white elephant?
Greek yogurt is too tasty and healthy to become passe. It's been around in Greece for a long time. When I first ate some a couple of years back, I was delighted. It's thick, smooth and very toothsome. I get your point, C.M., but don't agree with the last sentence.
Then should all workers, outside Genesee County, be denied employment until all qualified workers in the County have been offered a job? That would also mean companies would have to hire Genesee County non union workers first, if they wanted a job.
Has any Genesee County company been passed over by an out of area company?
Lol Billie I like that word toothsome.... As for the poll question I think CM expands way too much into what if and what will bes. If the agreement between PepsiCo and GCEDC doesnt specifically say that locals have to be hired then the company is well within its right to hire the most competant and cost effective contractor no matter where they come from. If the GCEDC didnt stipulate this and the county's citizens object then through our county reps the GCEDC should be made aware of this by removing the county's contributions to the GCEDCs operating funds. As for the decline of the popularity of yogurt that CM alludes to i do believe the same was said of pizza, burgers and hot dogs as far as them being a dietary fad and fading quickly leaving a whole white elephant of an industry. So far they dont seem to be fading at all.
Mark, if you can pinpoint where I said that; I will redact it. My discussion is narrowed to public investment in private enterprise- specifically should the public be assured that such investment has the desired payback. Focus on the PepsiCo project is incidental to recent news stories which (admittedly) involve allegation.
My point is soley that we all want businesses to come here, and each and every time a segment of the population finds fault with what needs to be done to get it here.
You needn't redact a single word CM, by the same token, your statement was rather harsh toward pepsi.
This entire issue is totally contrived in my opinion by Union management, I realize that the Union officers said it wasn't a Union issue buit infact the entire issue actually is.
This project is in the very beginning, we don't even know yet who has actually been awarded contracts less Zoladz doing the excavation and allegedly a a Kentucy based electrical firm.
Frankly, I don't see the need fopr this poll at all, I am thankful that Muellar/Pepsi is moving here, I am glad that agencies were able to finangle a deal, and I resent that everytime something positive happens in this county we hear things like "White Elephant, boondagle etc or interference in a business in the early staged of development based on reasoning not yetr established as fact.
John, if I knocked on your door and asked, "How about letting me set up a vegetable stand in your front yard," and you replied, "Just let me have a couple tomatoes every so often," and I answered, "We'll see;" would you feel comfortable with that?
But maybe you can answer, what is considered "local" in this case? Is it Genesee County residents first?
Is it union workers first?
Do you think they would be happy if all the workers are "local", but non union?
I agree with Mark, this is a contrived union issue.
I'm not 100 percent sure either way whether Haskell/Pepsi/Muller is hiring local workers, "enough" local workers or very few local workers.
There's no doubt this is a well subsidized facility. I don't make too big of a deal about various tax abatements because that's all Monopoly money anyway -- funds that would never be generated if not for the project, so the taxpayers really don't lose anything -- and whatever expense growth there is from the project will be offset by the multiplier effect.
However, there were and are grants for infrastructure, the initial costs of creating the ag park, both in concept and initial grading and what not, to make it "shovel ready." That should be worth something in repaying the community throughout the entire life cycle of the project, from construction to long-term employment prospects.
At least on a moral/ethical basis, I think Haskell/Pepsi/Muller have some sort of obligation to the community (in part for no other reason than they've said they want to be part of the community) to do what they can to employ local people.
However, I am leery -- leery to the extreme -- of anything that even sniffs of government mandate. One reason New York is such a hard place to do business is over-regulation.
I think it's important to ask the question and pay attention to whether these companies are hiring local workers -- if for no other reason than they made a pledge to do so -- but I would caution against micromanaging the process. At the end of the day, this is a private company that has a fiduciary responsibility to their shareholders, which, unless they are B Corps, trumps any social responsibility (as a matter of law).
The poll fails to confront
The poll fails to confront the 'real' question. For private corporations that receive public grants and/or tax deferrals, should a quid pro quo exist? Communities do not invest in a corporate presence for aesthetic purposes- a new facade in a corporate park. When public funds are invested in private enterprise, waving property taxes, providing grant money; reciprocity is expected. The lead agency in the agreement with PepsiCo is GCEDC. If Hyde, et al, have not put some teeth in this agreement, haven't established some enforceable terms for local hiring; trust between the GCEDC and Genesee County taxpayers has been violated. Genesee County might better have bought a few thousand shares of PepsiCo stock rather than forfeit a decade's tax revenue in exchange for a new building. This project was sold as a boon to local dairy farmers and promise of jobs. The boon to local farmers part has been essentially deflated. What about the jobs? What is the return on Genesee County taxpayers' investment? Ten years from now when yoghurt treats are passe' will Genesee County have another white elephant?
So CM, you are saying that
So CM, you are saying that you rather that the plant was built somewhere else?
Greek yogurt is too tasty and
Greek yogurt is too tasty and healthy to become passe. It's been around in Greece for a long time. When I first ate some a couple of years back, I was delighted. It's thick, smooth and very toothsome. I get your point, C.M., but don't agree with the last sentence.
Then should all workers,
Then should all workers, outside Genesee County, be denied employment until all qualified workers in the County have been offered a job? That would also mean companies would have to hire Genesee County non union workers first, if they wanted a job.
Has any Genesee County company been passed over by an out of area company?
Lol Billie I like that word
Lol Billie I like that word toothsome.... As for the poll question I think CM expands way too much into what if and what will bes. If the agreement between PepsiCo and GCEDC doesnt specifically say that locals have to be hired then the company is well within its right to hire the most competant and cost effective contractor no matter where they come from. If the GCEDC didnt stipulate this and the county's citizens object then through our county reps the GCEDC should be made aware of this by removing the county's contributions to the GCEDCs operating funds. As for the decline of the popularity of yogurt that CM alludes to i do believe the same was said of pizza, burgers and hot dogs as far as them being a dietary fad and fading quickly leaving a whole white elephant of an industry. So far they dont seem to be fading at all.
Mark, if you can pinpoint
Mark, if you can pinpoint where I said that; I will redact it. My discussion is narrowed to public investment in private enterprise- specifically should the public be assured that such investment has the desired payback. Focus on the PepsiCo project is incidental to recent news stories which (admittedly) involve allegation.
My point is soley that we all
My point is soley that we all want businesses to come here, and each and every time a segment of the population finds fault with what needs to be done to get it here.
You needn't redact a single word CM, by the same token, your statement was rather harsh toward pepsi.
This entire issue is totally contrived in my opinion by Union management, I realize that the Union officers said it wasn't a Union issue buit infact the entire issue actually is.
This project is in the very beginning, we don't even know yet who has actually been awarded contracts less Zoladz doing the excavation and allegedly a a Kentucy based electrical firm.
Frankly, I don't see the need fopr this poll at all, I am thankful that Muellar/Pepsi is moving here, I am glad that agencies were able to finangle a deal, and I resent that everytime something positive happens in this county we hear things like "White Elephant, boondagle etc or interference in a business in the early staged of development based on reasoning not yetr established as fact.
John, if I knocked on your
John, if I knocked on your door and asked, "How about letting me set up a vegetable stand in your front yard," and you replied, "Just let me have a couple tomatoes every so often," and I answered, "We'll see;" would you feel comfortable with that?
CM,that makes no sense. But
CM,that makes no sense.
But maybe you can answer, what is considered "local" in this case? Is it Genesee County residents first?
Is it union workers first?
Do you think they would be happy if all the workers are "local", but non union?
I agree with Mark, this is a contrived union issue.
You're right, John. Thank you
You're right, John. Thank you for confirming my point.
I'm not 100 percent sure
I'm not 100 percent sure either way whether Haskell/Pepsi/Muller is hiring local workers, "enough" local workers or very few local workers.
There's no doubt this is a well subsidized facility. I don't make too big of a deal about various tax abatements because that's all Monopoly money anyway -- funds that would never be generated if not for the project, so the taxpayers really don't lose anything -- and whatever expense growth there is from the project will be offset by the multiplier effect.
However, there were and are grants for infrastructure, the initial costs of creating the ag park, both in concept and initial grading and what not, to make it "shovel ready." That should be worth something in repaying the community throughout the entire life cycle of the project, from construction to long-term employment prospects.
At least on a moral/ethical basis, I think Haskell/Pepsi/Muller have some sort of obligation to the community (in part for no other reason than they've said they want to be part of the community) to do what they can to employ local people.
However, I am leery -- leery to the extreme -- of anything that even sniffs of government mandate. One reason New York is such a hard place to do business is over-regulation.
I think it's important to ask the question and pay attention to whether these companies are hiring local workers -- if for no other reason than they made a pledge to do so -- but I would caution against micromanaging the process. At the end of the day, this is a private company that has a fiduciary responsibility to their shareholders, which, unless they are B Corps, trumps any social responsibility (as a matter of law).
Well put Howard. I wish I
Well put Howard. I wish I could have stated your point as eloquently.
Pretty hard to buy Pepsi
Pretty hard to buy Pepsi product when you don't have a job.