I wonder how many of the lemmings that voted YES on this poll actually UNDERSTAND what is involved with the Common Core standards. Is it necessarily a bad idea for students to learn more than one way to solve a math problem? Is it a bad thing to raise standards for both students and teachers?
Is it OK for kids in the US to be ranked 25th in the world in math skills and 20th in the world in science skills? It’s clear that SOMETHING has to change. What exactly are the YES voters afraid of??
The US can’t be competitive in the world without having an internationally competitive education system and the Common Core is a start at that.
Everyone needs to RELAX a little, stop drinking the conservative kool-ade and give the Common Core standards a chance to work.
Dave, why do you think the objection to Common Core is "conservative kool-aide"? Last I saw, most opposition is across the board. I don't think you can call the teacher unions or our governor conservative. Or, were just on a rant?
OK, John....I'll ask you. Given your response, I take it that you're opposed to the Common Core.
Since I know who you are, I don't think you have any school age children (neither do I by the way). What exactly is the basis for your opposition to this standard?
As far as the teachers' unions go, the union leaders don't want anything to do with ANYTHING that will change how things are done or will make more work for them. And...with respect to our fine governor....I'd chalk that up to pandering for votes.
Dave, I have no problem with standardized testing, and did not say I did. My problem was your saying it was "conservative kool aide", when the opposition is clearly across the political spectrum. Why did you say that?
You are right, I do not have kids in school anymore so I have no firsthand knowledge if Common Core is good or bad. From what people who do have kids in school have told me, the problem is how things have to be taught and they are teaching to the test, not the subject knowledge.
I do not know if Common Core is the best method, but without standardized testing, there is no way for anyone to know if the student really learned anything. How do you compare your school to others if the testing is not the same?
Very simply common core isn't about teaching math or anything else. It complicates simple math and also penalizes students who dont show their work, or show work that isn't lockstep with common core's way.
I can't speak to the testing - I'm not a subject matter expert. I would ASSUME however, that if the concept is referred to a "Common Core" that the testing would be standardized for all schools (at least in a state).
People who oppose this concept get their shorts in a knot about the TESTING.
Again, I'm not a subject matter expert, but if you're going to make a change in the way you do things - i.e. how our kits are being taught subject matter, how else can you tell if it's working other than have tests to evaluate that process?
I'm 66 years old and I can remember taking standardized tests in elementary school. Everybody has taken them. Now all of a sudden, standardized testing is a huge deal. It's a red herring.
As I said earlier, I don't have a dog in this fight, but I do have 6 puppies (grandchildren). What I want for them is to be able to compete in a world economy that is increasingly competitive. For that to happen, US schools can't be ranked 20th and 25th in math and science in the world.
Kyle,
Any time the process is changed it may be perceived as being "complicated".
'll admit, when my 8 yr old granddaughter tries to explain to me how she can solve a math problem 3 different ways I do think to myself, why are they complicating the process.
But when you think about it, they are learning that there is more than one way to skin a cat. They're learning to apply reasoning skills - in second grade!! I could barely tie my shoes in second grade.This is not a bad thing.
"Is it necessarily a bad idea for students to learn more than one way to solve a math problem? "
I was reading on News10NBC's website this morning under their New York State Exposed series, that many parents have opted to homeschool their children in opposition to common core.
From the report: "...an eighth grader who started homeschooling in August. About Common Core she said, “We would learn six ways to do an equation and then on a test, we were only allowed to use one way.”
So why waste time teaching the other five ways, if only one way is acceptable?
I'm all for overhauling our educational system as I feel, and have always felt, it's been a broken system since day one, with low, or bad, quality educators, many of whom couldn't pass the common core test if their lives depended on it.
It sucks that academically our nation is ranked at the bottom, and has been for many decades, and it should be an embarrassment to those who are supposed to be managing the education of our children, that small, third world countries are academically higher than a country dubbed a superpower.
In my experience, the education system in America has been lacking the application of critical thinking for a long time. Common Core isn't perfect, but it's a good faith attempt to encourage critical thinking.
When your kids eventually land a job, it won't be important that they memorized their multiplication tables or historical dates. It will be essential, however, that they know how to process information, think critically and come up with a solution.
hey dave, from your "lemming" remark, I take it we must agree with you or we are just a bunch of rats..... well dave right back at ya, you're a lemming.
Yes, there all multiple ways to skin a cat. However you must first learn how to hold the knife.
It wasn't that long ago when mathematics was taught in a common sense way. Basic numbers, addition, subtraction, multiplication, division, decimals, fractions, etc etc. A foundation was built, then levels of complexity built on the foundation. It made sense, and it worked. Until the late 80's.
They started blending things together and mudded up the water. I luckily missed that mess and was in the original program. I spent time tutoring those who got caught in the new "sequence system" in my junior and senior years. I taught them old school and they did well.
I 've seen the "common core" math and the best I can say is that it is a complicated mess. What would take just a couple steps to do now takes half a dozen or more.
Does critical thinking mean over complicating everything? No. You get plenty of critical thinking in trigonometry and calculus. That is where there are more than one way to solve problems.
2+4 still equals 6 no matter what way you do it. The best method is KISS. That's stands for Keep It Simple Stupid, for those who developed Common Core.
I still do quite a bit of math in my head that today's students need a calculator for. (By the way, I saw a current math book that only showed how to input the problem into a calculator, wow, that requires intelect)
Put common core into the trash can and let's go back to old school. Which is of course what the countries of the world who are beating us, still use.
I wonder how many of the
I wonder how many of the lemmings that voted YES on this poll actually UNDERSTAND what is involved with the Common Core standards. Is it necessarily a bad idea for students to learn more than one way to solve a math problem? Is it a bad thing to raise standards for both students and teachers?
Take a look at the international rankings at http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0923110.html.
Is it OK for kids in the US to be ranked 25th in the world in math skills and 20th in the world in science skills? It’s clear that SOMETHING has to change. What exactly are the YES voters afraid of??
The US can’t be competitive in the world without having an internationally competitive education system and the Common Core is a start at that.
Everyone needs to RELAX a little, stop drinking the conservative kool-ade and give the Common Core standards a chance to work.
Dave, why do you think the
Dave, why do you think the objection to Common Core is "conservative kool-aide"? Last I saw, most opposition is across the board. I don't think you can call the teacher unions or our governor conservative. Or, were just on a rant?
OK, John....I'll ask you.
OK, John....I'll ask you. Given your response, I take it that you're opposed to the Common Core.
Since I know who you are, I don't think you have any school age children (neither do I by the way). What exactly is the basis for your opposition to this standard?
As far as the teachers' unions go, the union leaders don't want anything to do with ANYTHING that will change how things are done or will make more work for them. And...with respect to our fine governor....I'd chalk that up to pandering for votes.
Dave, I have no problem with
Dave, I have no problem with standardized testing, and did not say I did. My problem was your saying it was "conservative kool aide", when the opposition is clearly across the political spectrum. Why did you say that?
You are right, I do not have kids in school anymore so I have no firsthand knowledge if Common Core is good or bad. From what people who do have kids in school have told me, the problem is how things have to be taught and they are teaching to the test, not the subject knowledge.
I do not know if Common Core is the best method, but without standardized testing, there is no way for anyone to know if the student really learned anything. How do you compare your school to others if the testing is not the same?
I'll tell you what my
I'll tell you what my opposition is Dave....
Very simply common core isn't about teaching math or anything else. It complicates simple math and also penalizes students who dont show their work, or show work that isn't lockstep with common core's way.
http://excelined.org/common-core-toolkit/old-standards-v-common-core-a-…
http://www.vox.com/cards/commoncore/why-the-common-core-makes-elementar….
All I see is complication of what was simple and calling it higher education.
Thats my objection to Common Core.
I can't speak to the testing
I can't speak to the testing - I'm not a subject matter expert. I would ASSUME however, that if the concept is referred to a "Common Core" that the testing would be standardized for all schools (at least in a state).
People who oppose this concept get their shorts in a knot about the TESTING.
Again, I'm not a subject matter expert, but if you're going to make a change in the way you do things - i.e. how our kits are being taught subject matter, how else can you tell if it's working other than have tests to evaluate that process?
I'm 66 years old and I can remember taking standardized tests in elementary school. Everybody has taken them. Now all of a sudden, standardized testing is a huge deal. It's a red herring.
As I said earlier, I don't have a dog in this fight, but I do have 6 puppies (grandchildren). What I want for them is to be able to compete in a world economy that is increasingly competitive. For that to happen, US schools can't be ranked 20th and 25th in math and science in the world.
Kyle, Any time the process is
Kyle,
Any time the process is changed it may be perceived as being "complicated".
'll admit, when my 8 yr old granddaughter tries to explain to me how she can solve a math problem 3 different ways I do think to myself, why are they complicating the process.
But when you think about it, they are learning that there is more than one way to skin a cat. They're learning to apply reasoning skills - in second grade!! I could barely tie my shoes in second grade.This is not a bad thing.
And....as far as your (first) link to the Foundation for Excellence in Education. Here's a link to a Wikipedia page describing them http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foundation_for_Excellence_in_Education
The chairman is Jeb Bush.....yeah....that Jeb Bush. He probably doesn't have an agenda.
"Is it necessarily a bad idea
"Is it necessarily a bad idea for students to learn more than one way to solve a math problem? "
I was reading on News10NBC's website this morning under their New York State Exposed series, that many parents have opted to homeschool their children in opposition to common core.
From the report: "...an eighth grader who started homeschooling in August. About Common Core she said, “We would learn six ways to do an equation and then on a test, we were only allowed to use one way.”
So why waste time teaching the other five ways, if only one way is acceptable?
I'm all for overhauling our educational system as I feel, and have always felt, it's been a broken system since day one, with low, or bad, quality educators, many of whom couldn't pass the common core test if their lives depended on it.
It sucks that academically our nation is ranked at the bottom, and has been for many decades, and it should be an embarrassment to those who are supposed to be managing the education of our children, that small, third world countries are academically higher than a country dubbed a superpower.
In my experience, the
In my experience, the education system in America has been lacking the application of critical thinking for a long time. Common Core isn't perfect, but it's a good faith attempt to encourage critical thinking.
When your kids eventually land a job, it won't be important that they memorized their multiplication tables or historical dates. It will be essential, however, that they know how to process information, think critically and come up with a solution.
hey dave, from your "lemming"
hey dave, from your "lemming" remark, I take it we must agree with you or we are just a bunch of rats..... well dave right back at ya, you're a lemming.
Yes, there all multiple ways
Yes, there all multiple ways to skin a cat. However you must first learn how to hold the knife.
It wasn't that long ago when mathematics was taught in a common sense way. Basic numbers, addition, subtraction, multiplication, division, decimals, fractions, etc etc. A foundation was built, then levels of complexity built on the foundation. It made sense, and it worked. Until the late 80's.
They started blending things together and mudded up the water. I luckily missed that mess and was in the original program. I spent time tutoring those who got caught in the new "sequence system" in my junior and senior years. I taught them old school and they did well.
I 've seen the "common core" math and the best I can say is that it is a complicated mess. What would take just a couple steps to do now takes half a dozen or more.
Does critical thinking mean over complicating everything? No. You get plenty of critical thinking in trigonometry and calculus. That is where there are more than one way to solve problems.
2+4 still equals 6 no matter what way you do it. The best method is KISS. That's stands for Keep It Simple Stupid, for those who developed Common Core.
I still do quite a bit of math in my head that today's students need a calculator for. (By the way, I saw a current math book that only showed how to input the problem into a calculator, wow, that requires intelect)
Put common core into the trash can and let's go back to old school. Which is of course what the countries of the world who are beating us, still use.