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Today's Poll: Should Buffalo Bills cheerleaders be paid at least minimum wage?

By Howard B. Owens
tom hunt

I don't consider this a job. It is more like a hobby to these young girls. Most have day jobs and do this off hours for exposure ( tongue in cheek). I am sure they all have in mind meeting and marrying a highly paid NFL player.

Apr 23, 2014, 10:27am Permalink
Debbie Pugliese

Thats right Tom....them girls should have to sit on men's laps in golf carts while wearing bikinis, and they should do it for free and LIKE IT. SMGDH

Apr 23, 2014, 11:15am Permalink
Howard B. Owens

It's very much a job -- they're told when and where to be, what and how to perform, and it's a valuable promotional service for the team, a very cash-flow rich business.

I'm surprised they don't even get minimum wage.

Apr 23, 2014, 12:14pm Permalink
Eric [Rick] von kramer

Give me a break,These girls were not raised under a mushroom, they do this partly for prestige. They know sex sells, Their friends get to see them on tv, and yes there is always the chance to be discovered. If these girls were told everything upfront do you think they would say"never mind" i think not! I do believe They shoud be supported financially by the team,

Apr 23, 2014, 3:33pm Permalink
Eric [Rick] von kramer

If I as a contractor, agree to do a job (for what ever pay) I can't say, OH#%* i want more money, i have to suck it up and fullfill the contract. A contract is binding and these contractors went in with their eyes open.It still goes back to"look at me i'm a Buffalo Jill"

Apr 23, 2014, 5:21pm Permalink
Bob Harker

If they were "employees" they would be paid at least minimum wage. They are independent contractors and knew the requirements going in. I have to at least partially agree with Tom H. I've no doubt that the prestige of being an NFL cheerleader was a primary motivator.

Apr 23, 2014, 6:55pm Permalink
matt riggi

"If I as a contractor, agree to do a job (for what ever pay) I can't say, OH#%* i want more money, i have to suck it up and fullfill the contract."

That's not necessarily true. This is a big issue being addressed by the Obama administration. Many workers, such as (possibly) the Jills, are being misclassified as independent contractors when, in fact, the behavioral and financial controls of the business are not that of an independent contractor. If one enters into an illegal contract, the contract is still illegal. This is a liability that falls on the business. This isn't a "well, you signed up for it, too bad" situation. I have to believe that there are numerous laws that will play into this along with other important facts that are not supplied to the media yet. On the surface, it seems as though the Jills have a legitimate case. Again, not all data is available on this for me to side either way. I'm certainly interested to see how this plays out and what impact this has on other businesses who use independent contractors.

Apr 23, 2014, 7:35pm Permalink
Eric [Rick] von kramer

Matt, What you are bringing up a very good point. If the law decides they were illegally called contractors, then the rules change. I would then have to say "what's right is right" and they may have a case. If the law upholds the contractor theory, and things stay the same, there will still be plenty of girls willing to sit on a few laps to call themselves professional cheerleaders!

Apr 23, 2014, 8:59pm Permalink
Bea McManis

Matt, that is why AOL lost. When you look at the money charged to have the cheerleaders at an event, and the amount they actually received then there is a reason to persue this case.

Apr 23, 2014, 9:25pm Permalink
Julie Morales

“It still goes back to ‘look at me i'm a Buffalo Jill’”

You sound downright bitter. Maybe you should sue for a cheerleading spot and a few laps to sit on yourself.

Apr 23, 2014, 9:34pm Permalink
Howard B. Owens

If an business assigns work and will fire you for not showing up or not getting the work done, then you're no longer an independent contractor, you're employee. If you can't assign yourself work (the company need not accept the work) and determine your own way of doing the work and set your own hours, you're an employee.

This article describes assigned work and expectations for conduct and performance that sound like an employer-employee relationship to me, not a a contractor relationship.

If being a cheerleader were truly a free market, then any person who showed up could do any assignment and the employer would pay the highest wages to those who best did the job or just take whoever showed up if they wanted to hold expenses down. But the way football teams do cheerleading is there are tryouts and only the select few are chosen and nobody else can get in, creating a system that limits competition for assignments, thereby denying the select few from the opportunity gain the highest bid for their services and allowing the employer to hold down costs without exposure to a substandard product for the low price their willing to pay.

A free market works only when all parties respect each other. When one party deliberately rigs the system to exploit the weakness of the other party, it's no longer a free market. Rather it's feudal.

All of the supposed reasons mentioned earlier about why young women might want to be Jills is how they are exploited to the determent of their ability to engage in a free market exercise to obtain their highest monetary worth.

Whether by contract or not, the Bills hold some responsibility for the conditions they set in motion.

Law suits, BTW, are part of a free market system. In a free market, law suits are how disputes are settled when two parties can't agree on the fairness or not of their arrangement. The system exists to correct wrongs that the market itself can't correct.

Apr 23, 2014, 9:45pm Permalink
matt riggi

Every aspect of this relationship will need to be evaluated. There aren't any one or two definitions or rules that define whether an individual is an employee or independent contractor. As Howard mentioned, this is precisely why this is going to the courts. The relationship between the Jills and the agency will be completely disclosed and a decision will be made based on that. Again, we don't know every aspect of the relationship so it's hard to say one way or the other. But, like I said, it seems as thought the Jills have a legitimate case.

On a side note: The argument that these women were looking to "sit on a few laps" or get some "exposure" has absolutely nothing to do with any of this. Those comments have no merit in this case.

Apr 23, 2014, 10:08pm Permalink
Bea McManis

If you have volunteers please make sure THEY, not you, pencil in the times they want to use their time. If you use independent contractors then make sure THEY, not you, set their timetable.
Once you start holding mandatory meetings and provide training, etc. Then you are treating that volunteer or contractor as an employee.

Apr 23, 2014, 10:14pm Permalink
Debbie Pugliese

Actually Matt it does have a merit in this case, although admittedly not in direct relation to Howard's question.

http://wivb.com/2014/04/22/former-jills-file-lawsuit-against-bills-mana…

She and four others claim other degrading behavior included being forced to wear a bikini and then go into a dunk tank, being auctioned off like prizes, and “the Jills were forced to sit on participants’ laps because there was not enough seats in the golf carts.”......

But hey, its a great way to snag 'em a rich husband!

Apr 23, 2014, 10:40pm Permalink
matt riggi

Debbie, it really doesn't. My comment wasn't in response to the article but to other comments in this thread (your last comment would fall into this category). What you're saying is an entirely different argument.

Apr 23, 2014, 10:59pm Permalink
Eric [Rick] von kramer

Not to beat a dead horse, but,, Julie, Lets say there are 50 girls that show up for a jill's audition. If those girls were told exactly what was expected of them, including paying out of your own pocket and having to sit half naked on some old guys lap. In all honesty, how many of those candidates would get up and leave?? honestly,,, not very many, if any

Apr 25, 2014, 7:13pm Permalink

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