or maybe the 9 billion PER year that we spend on professional sports. or the 29 million we're going to spend on electricity for Christmas light displays. Perhaps the 226 million that Americans are going to spend on a "costume holiday to celebrate nothing" at the end of this month? Nope we gotta keep all that, but as more bridges fall around our ears, lots of people are going to waste even more money on lots of gas going the long way.....
Priorities anyone?
Portion of Griswold Road closed for at least a year because of failing bridge
Submitted by Howard Owens on October 19, 2012 - 4:02pm
If you want to go east or west on Griswold Road between Caswell and Route 237 in Stafford, you're going to have to wait a year.
An aging bridge has just become too unstable to handle heavy traffic and the county won't be able to replace it until next June.
"At least the detour around it is not that long," said County Highway Superintendent Tim Hens. "It's not a huge inconvenience. All bridge closures are an inconvenience, but this is not as bad as some are."
The steel multigirder bridge was built in 1941 and widened in 1976. The girders have rusted through to the point that they can't even support two tons.
A few years ago, the bridge was rated for seven tons, then downgraded to four, then two, now 1.8.
"That's about the size of a small SUV," Hens said.
The county looked at reducing the bridge, which crosses over Black Creek, to one lane, but that would require installing Jersey barriers, which are heavy themselves.
"We probably would have overloaded it just to reduce it to one lane, so that wasn't viable either," Hens said.
About five years ago, the county applied for a federal grant to replace the bridge and the process has been moving forward since, but the bridge has become unusable a year earlier than anticipated.
The new bridge is in the design phase now.
Construction should be completed by this time next year, Hens said.
He also said the Griswold bridge is just the tip of the iceberg.
About half of the county's bridges are in nearly as critical condition. Some of those bridges, if closed, will mean seven- and eight-mile detours for residents, farmers and emergency responders.
"We don't have any local money to replace them and it looks like the federal pot is going to get smaller and smaller," Hens said. "The county is going to have some tough decisions, either closing bridges or funding them locally."
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October 19, 2012 - 4:37pm
#3
October 19, 2012 - 5:27pm
#4
If I decide to buy a ticket to a Bills game, nobody is threatening me with jail or fines if I don't.
If I decide not to string up Christmas lights, I won't get a call from the IRS wanting to know why I'm not doing my duty.
If I don't pay my taxes, well, the government pretty much has the power to destroy my life.
Our federal government isn't borrowing money from China to pay for linebackers and running backs, but they are borrowing money to pay for drones and PTSD treatments.
How a private individual chooses to spend his or her money is none of my business. You set your priorities. I set mine. And if I want to go to a Bills game rather than put gas in my truck, what business is it of yours?
What the government does with our money, well, that's all of our business.
Bottomline, what does professional sports or Christmas lights have to do with the Griswold Road bridge?
October 19, 2012 - 6:04pm
#5
C.M, how about the money that went to the bankrupt solar companies?? No bias on your part ever...lol
October 19, 2012 - 6:12pm
#6
China only holds about 8% of US debt. It is nowhere as large as most people believe.
October 19, 2012 - 6:48pm
#7
Hmmm. Let me guess. Mr. Putnam and Mr. Dorf will be voting for Mr. Romney in a few weeks. We can see where Mr. Baron's support is. And Howard, I'm afraid you get labeled as "The Liberal Media" only because you're in media but don't broadcast on Clear Channel radio or Fox TV. But I'll ask the Mr. 's Putnam and Dorf: Where should the funding come from to repair all these bridges?
October 19, 2012 - 7:02pm
#8
My point is to be fair in your criticism. Both parties are to blame for spending "our" money to the point where the debt is out of control.
October 19, 2012 - 7:24pm
#9
4 Trillion buys more bridges than 500 Million. Where's the bias you refer to? If there is a bias, yes, I prefer investing in domestic enterprise as opposed to foreign enterprise. By the way, Solyndra et al would not have gone bankrupt if the Chinese hadn't downgraded the price on Asian market solar panels (with the complicity of U. S. investors) to flood American markets with cheaper panels. Another example of Wall Street screwing American manufacturers. Wall Street investors won. Chinese manufacturers won, and American companies went bankrupt. ...You're going to blame Obama for investing in a U. S. company? Tell me more about MY bias. I'm not an Obama supporter, so I feel no obligation to quibble about his personal investment in outsourcing, but Romney- (per Washington Post) "Bain Capital, the private equity firm Romney founded, did invest in firms that specialized in outsourcing during the years Romney ran the private equity firm." This is the dipstick we're supposed to trust in restoring American jobs!?
October 19, 2012 - 7:37pm
#10
October 19, 2012 - 8:00pm
#11
You just proved my point. You choose to criticize one party over the other when both are at fault. You post an article from Kos Media...really.
October 19, 2012 - 9:34pm
#12
WOW, in the article it says "About five years ago, the county applied for a federal grant to replace the bridge and the process has been moving forward since, but the bridge has become unusable a year earlier than anticipated......The new bridge is in the design phase now.
I don't know where the argument that said there is no money for this started, the grant was applied for, the process has been moving forward since, the new bridge is in the design phase and it failed 1 year earlier than anticipated...It is going to be replaced that is even stated in the article, just bad luck it failed earlier than expected, so the bantering to me seems moot, although mildly entertaining.
October 19, 2012 - 11:37pm
#13
I didn't choose to "criticize one party over the other," because I recognize that ANYONE who invests in Wall Street (and how can one avoid it; every loan, bank account, retirement account, etc. invests in Wall Street) has (unwitting) complicity in outsourcing. I used the word "quibble" for that very reason. There is a difference, however, in being inadvertently and unwittingly complicit in outsourcing and being the administrator of a company directly involved in outsourcing.
...Don't like Kos; here's what Fox says:
"The only way that Mitt Romney will be able to deflect from the Bain Capital attacks is to put forth an affirmative case for itself and its policies.
"Mitt Romney has been put on the defensive – still unable to offer an answer to questions about (the l)evel of his role at Bain Capital during the years he was leading the organizing committee for the Salt Lake City Olympics.
"And the impact the attacks have had on Mitt Romney’s own standing among voters is clear and undeniable.
"Twenty-three percent of all voters – including twenty-two percent of Independents surveyed in the latest New York Times/CBS News poll said that Mr. Romney’s tenure at Bain makes them less likely to vote for him. Meanwhile, a new Rasmussen survey found that forty-one percent of voters see Romney's record in the private sector as a reason not to vote for him – up eight points from where it was several months ago."
October 19, 2012 - 11:56pm
#14
Pretty crazy how a story about a bridge on a country road turns into why Rommey is no good for america...What gets me is why does it take five years to get money to replace such a small bridge..This has more to do how slow and inept the federal government is..There is no reason that the money should take that long to get ....
October 20, 2012 - 12:30am
#15
I wasn't aware I was labeled liberal media.
Why the down votes for stating the obvious?
I'm not sure what's liberal or Democrat or pro-Obama or anti-Romney about C.M.'s initial comment. Both parties and two presidents share the blame for our stupid, expensive and misguided foreign policy.
Mark, as a conservative, why aren't you decrying that there are federal grants in the first place? When federal grants go to business to create jobs, you bitch, but it's OK to pay for local bridges? We should be able to pay for our own bridges. The only reason we need grants is we don't control our own taxes (which is also way we need aid to help business overcome all of the government regulations and taxes). We have to cover the expense of numerous unfunded federal and state mandates instead of being able to take care of ourselves and then turn to the feds for more deficit spending to build our bridges.
The reason it takes five years is we're not the only ones begging the feds to take care of our needs. We just have to get in line.
October 20, 2012 - 12:37am
#16
See the deal here is, it doesnt matter who anyone votes for, the electoral college will elect who they please. They are supposed to follow the popular vote, but do not have to. Spending is out of control everywhere. Howard im not saying that anyone should stop spending their money as they please. Im tabling that there is plenty of money, its being focused in the wrong places. I mean mars is cool, and christmas lights are beautiful, but were in an energy crisis, and out infrastructure is failing. Time to Prioritize.
October 20, 2012 - 12:43am
#17
Christopher.
There's two pots of money. One pot is the money the government takes from us. The other pot is the money the government is gracious enough to allow us to keep.
From the first pot, we pay for things like bridges and drones.
From the second pot, we get to go to football games and string up pretty lights.
The pots don't intermingle.
Spending less on football and Christmas lights won't mean more bridges.
It will just mean we have more money for baseball and Easter bunnies.
In context of this discussion, our priorities are fine because changing our priorities away from football and Christmas lights won't do anything to address the bridges issue.
Where the priority issue comes into play is how much we want to spend on building bridges in Afghanistan and Pakistan rather than in Western New York. That's where our priorities are backwards.
October 20, 2012 - 1:22am
#18
Howard the reason we pay gas taxes is so we have bridges to drive over...So to me this should be what the government is spose to spend tax dollars on..You are right i do bitch when we give federal tax dollars to a multi-billion dollar company's to create a job.. Corporate Welfare...I guess you and i see the role of government differently..I do not believe the role of government is to create jobs...It is the roll of government to built and repair the roads i drive on...And five years to get money for a bridge is too long..It doesn't take five years for these corporations to get their federal money to create a job..You seem like you want more government and i want less..You want government to build you a stadium to watch millionaires play football and i want them to build me bridges to drive over...
October 20, 2012 - 8:38am
#19
I never said the government's role was to create jobs. Where did I say that?
I pointed out the contradiction of your position, that' is all.
The gas tax is paid to the state, not the feds.
I never said I want the government to build a stadium. Where did you get that nonsense from? Please provide a direct quote.
My whole post above was about reducing the size of the federal government, which based on your two posts, you seem fine with keeping big.
October 20, 2012 - 8:41am
#20
I take that back, there is a federal excise tax.
But this isn't a federal bridge (like on an interstate, which is what the federal tax should go to). It's a local bridge.
October 20, 2012 - 9:47am
#21
If none of you are familiar with Adams Basin, N.Y., it's a small community on the Erie Canal, about 3 miles west of Spencerport, N.Y.
It's fed by Washington St. north and south, which connects with State Routes 31, 531, and 104(West Ridge Rd.). Washington St. has a lift bridge over the canal right there in Adams Basin. Back in 2004, the bridge's lift mechanism was inspected and found to be unsafe to use any further, and the bridge was closed to await funding from the State for repairs.
The cost for replacing the lift mechanism was around $5 million, and it took the State nearly 6 years to come up with the funding to make the repairs.
It's not an over night process as many would think.
There was also a statement that 8% of the total National Debt is not as much as people think.
I beg to differ. As of today, the total National Debt is at $16,204,612,950,754.13. 8% of that is $1,296,369,036,060.33 and that's just one country holding that much of our debt.
There have also been several statements regarding Corporate Welfare, i.e. tax breaks and incentives to large corporations based here in the U.S., and creating jobs. I find it funny that anyone believes this is productive to our economy, or has any effect on recovering from the recession.
Most, if not all, of these U.S. based corporations have outsourced the majority of U.S. jobs overseas, where they can greatly reduce their labor costs by more than half of what it would cost them to keep the jobs here in America. As Louise Slaughter has stated, it's time to end that and require these giants of industry and technology to keep the jobs on American soil in exchange for any tax breaks.
October 20, 2012 - 10:21am
#22
LOL thats where I grew up Raymond.... Learned to fish on the wall there where that bridge is as well as where the flood control gates are next to salmon creek. What memories.
October 20, 2012 - 11:48am
#23
OK agreed. So when the first pot fails, or is empty. Do you take from the second pot to build the bridge? Because eventually that is the choice were going to have to make. Its obvious to us both that the first pot is being mismanaged, wasted, squandered. This time it was a small bridge on a back road. When its a large bridge on a main road.......
October 20, 2012 - 11:51am
#24
Can anyone disagree with this. Its unacceptable that it takes 5+ years to build a bridge. Maybe everyone in that area should wait 5+ years to pay their taxes.
October 20, 2012 - 12:07pm
#25
Christopher, so what you're advocating is raising taxes so I have less money to go to football games and string up Christmas lights?
October 20, 2012 - 12:20pm
#26
As we have seen in this thread, and actually others as well, it is very easy and likely human nature to find straw dogs in any argument.
1) Howard is partially correct in the assertion that it takes five years because of competition for the same dollars.
2) Safety regulation and federal and state mandate also have a part in this though. You would think that in this nation we would have 1000's of cookie cutter bridge designs etc. or we could just throw a few engineers into a room and wallah a bridge design. The reality is that there are many factors involved, snow fall predictions, winter stream flow, average daily trafiic, road salt effects, flood plains etc.etc.. that are unique to almost any location. You simply do not build a bridge without going through a multitude of Federal and state agencies rubber stamps. The multitude and degree of these can certainly be debated, but there is merit to ensuring public safety.
3) Despite all the discussion about funding, the period of time for approval etc. It appears that the decay of the bridge was anticipated, the remedy sought out, and the unfortunate acceleration of the decay put a wrench into the plan so to speak.
If the headline were 'Bridge FAils No Funding Available' most of the discussion on this thread would have some relavence.
October 20, 2012 - 1:30pm
#27
Building a bridge ,a small one at that, has nothing to do with big government..You are the one who thinks it okay to have government programs that give property owners money to rebuild and repair a building that they own...I'm taking about the building your office is in..Giving money to Pepsi a company that is worth billions ,sales tax breaks and tax abatements,to build in the ag-park..Those are big government programs that you seem to support,which is governments way of creating jobs.....Maintaining a roads or fixing a bridge isn't...What is the purpose of paying tax on gasoline if not to maintain roads and bridges... Gas gets taxed 67 cents a gallon.Included in that tax is fed,state ,local tax.....That is where the money should be coming from to fix this bridge..The county also makes their fair share of tax on gas thru sales tax...The county also raised car registration fees by 5 dollars for roads and bridge repair..There is no way that it should take 5 years to come up with the money to rebuild this bridge..If you use about a tank of gas a week that would work out to around 700 dollars a year in gas tax...So you should be able to expect your bridges to be in good working order...
October 20, 2012 - 6:52pm
#28
Mark, once again you misstate my position.
October 21, 2012 - 2:45am
#29
Howard, Seems with how easily people are offended, shouldn't you be calling them Holiday Lights? [just kidding. sorry. couldn;t resist.] 
October 21, 2012 - 8:36am
#30
FYI Mark, the DMV is a STATE agency, not COUNTY!
The increase in vehicle registrations was a state decision, and the increase was to boos the State's revenues, i.e. general spending money, not specifically bridges.
October 21, 2012 - 11:31am
#31
Raymond the county just last year added a 5 dollar surcharge to car registrations...
...Wonder how many bridges could have been fixed with the near-4 trillion dollars spent on wars in Iraq, Afghanistan and Pakistan? ...Not to mention the impact on employment.