Another long list of underage drinkers. According to Sheriff's Dept. there is no teeth in the law. We passed a law we can not enforce. Imagine that?? Sounds like Albany.
Call or write your legislatures. Either enforce the law with something substancial for violators(Like license revocation until they appear in court) or lower the drinking age back to 18 like it used to be. There is more to this worthless enforcement, but I won't publicly go into it.
Fourteen arrests, scores of citations at Dave Matthews concert
Submitted by Howard B. Owens on July 4, 2013 - 11:28am
The following arrests were made Wednesday by the Sheriff's Office during the Dave Matthews Band Concert at Darien Lake Theme Park.
ToniMarie Gigante, 39, of Hallam Road, Buffalo, is charged with disordlerly conduct after allegedly causing a disturbance and refusing to leave the concert venue. Gigante was arraigned and jailed on $250 bail.
Christopher K. Grasso, 30, of Westside Drive, Rochester, is charged with harassment, 2nd, after allegedly pushing an officer who was breaking up a fight.
Shane M. Curry, 18, of Broxbourne Drive, Fairport, is charged with disorderly conduct after allegedly attempting to fight a deputy in the concert venue. Curry was jailed on $100 bail.
Thomas W. Hummel, 17, of Chapel Hill Drive, Rochester, is charged with criminal possession, of a controlled substance, 7th, and unlawful possession of marijuana after allegedly possessing oxycodone and marijuana.
Michael D. Capezzuto, 19, of Fenwick Lane, Victor, is charged with criminal mischief, 4th, after allegedly jumping onto the hood of a car, causing damage.
John R. Adams, 17, of Welsey Avenue, Buffalo, is charged with trespass after allegedly jumping a fence into a restricted area of the concert venue.
John M. Vandemoortel, 31, of Chadwick Drive, Waterloo, is charged with disordley conduct after allegedly using obscene language, causing a disturbance.
Robert C. Stapleton, 44, of Orchard Street, Ovid, is charged with disorderly conduct after allegedly fighting with security while being escorted from the concert venue.
John J. Stefaniak, 18, of George Street, Hamburg, is charged with criminal trespass, 3rd, after allegedly jumping a fence into the concert venue after being previously ejected from the concert.
Lawrence J. Lent, 20, of Bownshill Lane, Fairport, is charged with trespass after allegedly reentering the concert venue after being told not to return.
Patrick T. Van Vortel, 19, of Garnsey Road, Pittsford, is charged with harassment, 2nd, after allegedly striking a deputy while being ejected from the concert venue.
Matthew D. Wieczorek, 44, of Westminster Avenue, Syracuse, is charged with trespass after allegedly reentering the concert venue after being ejected.
Rachel M. Sanchez, 24, of Lake Street, Angola, is charged with disorderly conduct after allegedly using obscene language and causing a disturbance while exiting the concert venue.
Kristen B. Faricellie, 17, of Wood Acres Drive, East Amherst, is charged with trespass after allegedly entering the concert venue without a ticket.
The following people received apperance tickets for alleged unlawful possession of marijuana:
Kelsey B. Sargent, 20, of Creek Road Extension, Lewiston
Matthew W. Ortiz, 20, of Gleason Circle, East Rochester
Richard S. Bailey, 24, of Garage Road, Farmington
Keith D. Langdon, 18, of Dublin Road, Penfield
The following people were issued citations for alleged possession or consumption of alcohol under age 21:
(name redacted upon request) 18, of Ashford Court, East Amherst
Gabriel S. Zumpano, 19, of State Route 28, Barneveld
Jessica L. Eisenhauer, 19, of Shirley Avenue, Buffalo
Daniel J. Miller, 19, of Norbrook Road, Fairport
Rachel D. Anderson, 18, of Drayton Parkway, Hamburg
Thomas W. Gavin, 18, of Frontier Drive, Blasdell
Brian M. Castonguay, 17, of Willowbrook Drive, Orchard Park
Ryan M. Enright, 19, of Buffalo Road, Churchville
Adam C. Ludwicki, 20, of Knollwood Drive, Churchville
Ian F. Mohr, 17, of Wildmere Road, Rochester
Michael E. Anvelt, 19, of Forest Wood Lane, Pittsford
William C. Phelan, 18, of New England Drive, Rochester
Madeline R. Kalke, 18, of Rogers Parkway, Rochester
Luke A. Tierney, 18, of Minuteman Trail, Rochester
Brandon W. Hardy, 20, of Bridlepath Lane, Lancaster
(name redacted upon request), 18, of Caroline Lane, Elma
Nicole E. Deming, 18, of Country Club Drive, Syracuse
Annessa N. Sax-Bolder, 19, of Hillair Circle, White Plains
Avery P. Palardy, 20, of Joseph C. Wilson Boulevard, Rochester
Zachary J. Mietus, 20, of Congress Avenue, Rochester
Zoe T. Duberstein, 19, of Antlers Drive, Rochester
Hannah E. Roselli, 19, of Mill Street, Hornell
Allison E. Roberts, 19, of East Washington Street, Hornell
Danielle K. Dero, 19, of Bradnell Avenue, Le Roy
Nicholas C. Augostini, 20, of Foxburn Road, Penfield
(bane removed upon request), 20, of Mt. Liberty Drive, Penfield
(name removed upon request), 20, of Genesee Street, Rochester
(name removed upon request), 20, of Genesee Street, Rochester
Kristine N. Celeste, 18, of Scovell Drive, Lewiston
Patrick J. Gardner, 18, of Oakbrook Drive, Williamsville
Marissa A. Peltier, 19, of Clarence Center Road, Clarence
Nicholas J. Ferry, 19, of Hollingson Road, Clarence
Julia L. Griffith, 19, of Doncaster Road, Kenmore
Roseann J. DeVito, 20, of Canandaigua-Farmington Townline Road, Canandaigua
Robert M. Dicioccio, 18, of Lynn Drive, Orchard Park
Emily A. Wood, 18, of Nottingham Terrace, Hamburg
Trevor J. Snyder, 18, of Ellis Road, Orchard Park
Katherine E. Janish, 19, of North Lake Drive, Orchard Park
Mary J. Russo, 20, of Chapel Woods, Williamsville
Shannon E. Wrona, 18, of Traverse Boulevard, Buffalo
Kevin C. Ort, 18, of Sannita Drive, Rochester
Rosemarie L. Leach, 19, of Affinity Lane, Rochester
Shannon M. McCooey, 18, of Sunrise Terrace, West Seneca
Alayna M. Wageman, 19, of Sandlewood Drive, Getzville
Kristen L. Waskosky, 20, of Berkley Drive, Lockport
Nicole M. Carcione, 20 Leete Road, Lockport
Stephanie E. Hudson, 18, of Polar Drive, Penfield
Sean P. Byrne, 20, of South Geddes Street, Syracuse
Taylor M. Novakowski, 18, of MDL Cheshire Road, Canandaigua
Zachary R. Zimmerman, 20, of County Route 65, Watertown
Matthew J. Barvaccia, 19, of Sunrise Park, Pittsford
(name redacted), 20, of Maple Street, Hornell
John N. Dagon Jr., 20, of Maple Street, Hornell
Matthew R. Dansa, 19, of Chase Drive, Orchard Park
Monica M. Reiser, 18, of Birdsong Parkway, Orchard Park
Dennis F. Segrue, 18, of Chateau Place, Mendon
Cameron E. Orlando, 17, of Stratford Lane, Rochester
Madeline M. Box, 19, of Crestwood Road, Corning
Austin J. Antkowiak, 18, of Burbank Drive, Orchard Park
Kerry J. Winter, 19, of Holmes Hill Road, Conesus
Brendan P. Hart, 18, of Cynthia Circle, Orchard Park
Joseph F. Dagher, 18, of Via Marina, Williamsville
Brodie A. Egan, 18, of Velcoda Drive, Rochester
Jessica A. Kuzdzal, 20, of New Road, Amherst
Alyssa M. Filiatreau, 19, of McBurney Road, Clifton Springs
Lucia M. Forte, 19, of Lin Road, Utica
Daniel E. Gershman, 20, of Evelyn Avenue, North Bellmore
Sharan Varadarajan, 19, of Clooney Drive, Henrietta
Matthew S. Leonard, 19, of Cape Henry Trail W. Henrietta
Allison A. Yacono, 19, of Tumbleweed Drive, Pittsford
Kevin M. Burke, 16, of Chase View Road, Fairport
Cody M. Grasso, 20, of West Bihrwood Drive, West Seneca
Patrick J. Crowley, 20, of Union Road, West Seneca
Stephen R. Greiner, 19, of Highpoint Court, Orchard Park
Danielle K. Ruf, 16, of Hitree Lane, Rochester
Alexandra N. Emiliano, 18, of Christina Drive, North Chili
Kendra N. Thomas, 19, of Beartown Road, Painted Post
Taylor N. Royce-Parvlot, 20, of Chestnut Street, Corning
Peter M. Gropp, 19, of Shannon Glen, Fairport
Michael B. Caruso, 20, of Neuchatel Lane, Fairport
James T. Coon, 18, of Culver Parkway, Rochester
Another long list of underage drinkers. According to Sheriff's Dept. there is no teeth in the law. We passed a law we can not enforce. Imagine that?? Sounds like Albany.
I often wonder if arrests at other venues are this extensive, I haven't been to a show at D.L. in years because its a horrible venue. I also wonder if there are so many arrests because police "insite" choas.........(not blaming the plolice "insite" may not be the best word) I have been to shows at places like C-Mac and to the best of my knowlege arrests like this don't happen, maybe I'm wrong........
Good to see that Genesee County is not listed
@John ~ I thought it curious too. Maybe there are no Dave Matthews fans here? LOL
Actually, a 19-year-old girl from Le Roy did make the underage list.
Gary... In the buffalo paper there were a lot of folks claiming the same thing you were asking about. Citing situations where seemingly innocent people were slammed to the ground for little or no reason. I am not verifying that, as I was not there. Some even said there are too many police and security people there. I must say I do not know whether or not this was just folk s with a cross to bear or not. But underage drinking is underage drinking. Hard to blame police for that. What a lot of folks do not know is that Darien Lakes pays for the police(Sheriff), they are not the burden of taxpayers for these concerts.
Lower the age back to 18 and you won't have such a big problem, but of course you won't be getting all the free fine money
Barneveld, NY. 63+ years as a NY resident, and not only didn't know where it was, I'd never even heard of it.
Thanks, to thebatavian, for bringing it to my attention. And, thanks to Mr. Google, for locating it.
Just shows to goya! Never too old to learn another piece of inconsequential information!
You never know - might be a question on Jeopardy sometime.
total waste of man power...18 and above should be given a warning and sent on there way..not even worth putting on line....give it a rest on the under age drinking ..18-21 ,,,We have sheriffs who say they won't enforce the safe act..but our sheriffs want to enforce the 18-21 drinking law..
I just want to add again that The Hill was blamed profusely for causing the underage drinking problems in previous years. Now that walk ins are not allowed, the list of arrests has not shrunk at all. Last night people were offering me $20 to park in my yard. If it had been allowed, I'd have donated the money to the Wyoming County SPCA, but I had to tell people that walk ins are no longer allowed.
"In a free society, it is the role of businesses, parents, friends, family, religious organizations, temperance unions, social-welfare groups, medical professionals, and others to instruct the young on the potential dangers and safe use of alcohol; that is, anyone but the government."
The SAFE act is unconstitutional, the age 21 drinking law is not. That is a big difference. Unless of course you think there should be no law on the drinking age.
Personally, go back to the age 18 law that we use to have.
If someone is old enough to sign a contract, join the military, get married and have sex, then they should be old enough to have a drink.
What is wrong with using citations for underage drinking as revenue generation? The drinking age has been 21 for almost 30 years, the fines are well known and frequently ignored as a deterrent. Given the amount of citations(not arrests) issued, young people obviously view it as known but acceptable risk. The sheriffs are already there, if what Fred says is the case, their salary is being paid by Darien Lake, then it is an easy revenue source from a segment of the population that is willfully, joyfully, and continually placing themselves in the situation of having to pay those fines. I say every one of those dollars generated by someone thumbing their nose at current laws and not extracted from me through taxes is a dollar well collected.
Jeff; so in essence you are Ok with adding another "tax" to an age-specific group of Americans? It's already intrinsically wrong for the federal government to seize everyone's hard earned dollars and then hold stipulations over the supposedly self-governed states in the form of federal highway dollars to force the drinking age to be 21 to begin with. How ever long it has been the law and whoever is carrying the cost of the deputies is of no consequence. It's still tyranny. Albeit rather soft tyranny, but none the less abhorrent.
I'm ok with a revenue being collected from willful scoffers who have themselves made it so easy for agencies. It's not "adding" anything, like I said, the law has been on the books for almost 30 years, the fines associated with it have been on the books for almost 30 years. This is not a new money grab. When an age specific group of Americans thumb their nose at a law that old and that well known and do it so openly in the presence of law enforcement, then I would fault law enforcement for NOT taking the opportunity to generate income from it. My position is not on the validity of the law itself, it is on the willful arrogance of those who choose to roll the dice. You wanna play, sometimes you gotta pay and law enforcement would be remiss in passing up such an easy opportunity.
There is no tyranny, soft or otherwise, against a disengaged populace. ALL but 4 (four) of those given citations are of legal voting age. If you took every person in New York aged 18-20 who genuinely wants the drinking age reduced to 18, registered them to vote, taught them basic civics and how to effectively communicate with legislators, you would have an unstoppable political force. If young people are serious about getting the law changed, they should get off their a$$es, register to vote, and make it happen....until then, collect those fines.
I agree with getting the young engaged in the political process. But none of the rest. We've tangled over law enforcement and the degrees of aggressiveness before. Doesn't appear either of us will be changing our worldviews anytime soon, Jeff.
BTW John. How is the manner in which the age 21 drinking age was forced onto the states constitutional? Unless of course you believe in federal coercion.
I am referring to the 10th amendment and the coercion of withholding federal highway funds to force the states to make their legal drinking age 21.
Sorry, tried to drop it, but just can't: "There is no tyranny, soft or otherwise, against a disengaged populace" Really? There are no inalienable rights endowed by the creator? If the people don't fight back then it's OK for government to stomp on those natural law rights?
And "...I would fault law enforcement for NOT taking the opportunity to generate income from it." Again, really? You OK with speed traps too?
I don't understand Dave. We live in a representative republic that practices democracy. We are talking about a LONG established law that is neither hidden, nor ambiguous. We have a segment of society that has LONG ignored a law and continually pays the fines almost as if it were a cost of partying. We have law enforcement agencies scraping for every dollar just to stay solvent and a group of people willing to supplement that right in front of them. This is not a difference of worldview, it is a systemic issue that has it's solution built in to our system of government, yet too many participants sit on the sidelines and cry oppression when the power to change things lies within their own motivation.
Yes, Dave, really. Consuming alcohol before the age of 21 is not an inalienable right nor a natural law. The power to enact change lies within that group of 18-20 yr olds. along with countless others who support the change. No tyranny there.
Yes, I am ok with speed traps. As long as there is a well established segment of society willing to break speed limits, then the fines naturally become the cost of driving fast and why would law enforcement agencies not tap into that bottomless pool of revenue. I generally (and I use that term loosely) drive within the speed limit. I have been known to get a ticket or two in the past (from speed traps) and it cost me money which I hated paying. Instead of blaming the officer, or the system, or a violation of my inalienable rights, I took personal responsibility and decided that obeying the speed limit was in my best financial interest.
How else do you propose incentivizing legal behavior? To me, fines are a win, win. Law breakers pay, law abiders do not. Again, speed limits, like drinking laws are neither hidden nor ambiguous.
When fines or laws are deemed oppressive by the populace, they petition the government to get them changed. When lawmakers are unresponsive to those actions, they vote them out.
It is because we have become complacent in the exercise of the those rights that government has taken full advantage of it. Our foundational system of government is not broken, our willingness and tenacity in holding it accountable is.
"too many participants sit on the sidelines and cry oppression when the power to change things lies within their own motivation." Absolutely correct.
The worldview difference exists in the idea of forcing people to obey laws through aggressive enforcement instead of promoting personal responsibility through a restitution based justice system, and education. The mere fact that - your words - " We have law enforcement agencies scraping for every dollar just to stay solvent " tells me that these agencies are over-reaching, too big, too many of them and outside of their natural purveyance. Your worldview, in my humble opinion is based on law and order and the expectation that force will change attitudes and authority creates order. Correct me if I'm wrong. My worldview holds that people when left to their own devices will mostly try to find ways to get along without harming or encroaching upon others. There is, I think, an inherent rebelliousness against those who would encroach upon natural rights (authority figures) such as life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness which many times then causes a stand-off, which of course the one with the gun, handcuffs and the power of the state will win. Don't get me wrong, I'm not a Utopian I know there are some who will take the opportunity to exact violence or carelessly endanger others and I believe in police and the courts to deal with that in order to protect everyone's rights. But this kind of policing at a concert goes well past that.
I content that if there were private security there without the power to arrest,or cite there wouldn't be that much more trouble or accidents afterward. there are more arrests because the security has the power to arrest or cite. Also, I suppose we can never know the answer, but how many altercations occur specifically because there are police officers present? Also, how many of these kids drink just because it's not allowed? Just as how many try drugs for the same reason? I can tell you from experience the surest way to get me to do something when I was young was to threaten me with something if I did it.
"How else do you propose incentivizing legal behavior? " I don't
I too just about never break the law. I concede, they win, I don't want to pay fines or explain myself to a judge either. That does not in any way make it right.
I wasn't gonna even chime in on this discussion, but the 'speed traps' comment caught my attention.
Dave, can you explain what you meant by that term?
I've driven well over a million miles, and I honestly don't believe I've ever seen (or gone through) a speed trap. Now, I'm not saying they don't exist. In our vast network of roadways, there's probably several 'hill crests' that have reduced speed zones, just over the crest. And an unaware driver might not react in time to avoid the 'new' speed.
But, I'm thinking MOST people know the speed limit of the highway they're on. And, from what I've observed, the MAJORITY of drivers seem to 'push' that limit. Not by much - maybe 4-5mph. Others, they think "Hey, I'm OK at 7 mph over".
Now, 5mph over the 65mph limit on the expressway PROBABLY won't get you a ticket - could, but probably won't. I think most cops allow a LITTLE overage. But, personally, I see nothing wrong with the guy doing 71, 72, 75... in a 65mph zone, and getting ticketed for it. For the most part, that driver KNEW he was speeding to begin with. He rolled the dice, and he got 'snake eyes'!
And West Main in Batavia is a great example. I'm gonna go out on a limb, but I'm gonna guess that a guy with a 'radar gun' could find HUNDREDS of cars doing 40-45 between Top's and Dunkin' Donuts. EVERYDAY!
Now, whether these people going 5, 7, 10mph over the limit are dangerous is debatable. But, they knew the limit, in town, and they STILL had to go faster. They deserve any ticket they get. That's IMHO.
"How is the manner in which the age 21 drinking age was forced onto the states constitutional? Unless of course you believe in federal coercion."
This really is the crux of the argument, I am glad that you brought that up Dave
Many people do not realize or have forgotten, we lowered the drinking age to 18 in the 60's the argument was how can we draft 18 year olds and send them off to war and not aloow them to drink,
In the early 80's the Federal Government threatened to cut off federal highway dollars if we didn't raise the age to 21, it was exactly federal coercion in the first place/
Ed, to me a speed trap example would be when the speed limit is not apparent, the signs are hidden behind something or usually there is a long interval between them. I travel all of upstate NY north of Sullivan, Ulster and Dutchess Counties and 1/2 of PA west of the Susquehanna. There are lots and lots of them in little towns, designed to make money, period. I usually never exceed the speed limit more than 4 or 5 MPH on the open road and never ever in a village or city. I log about 30,000 miles a year. On the Thruway or freeways I set my cruise at 68 or 69 and get incredible gas mileage and no tickets. 2 examples of speed traps that spring to mind: Oakfield, which I'm sure Jeff is familiar with, it's 30mph in Rt 63 South all the way past the Hardware store. I always do 30 all the way through there and get horns honked at me and the finger and whatnot. Another is Rt 219, Limestone, NY south of Rt 17 just before you hit PA; 4 lane divided highway that drops to 45, had some exciting experiences through there at 6 - 7 AM with tractor trailers doing 75. I'm sure that one is a money maker. There are so many more, especially in northern PA where a State Route there is a back road here and the speed limit might be 40 or 45 for miles and miles of forest.
This, from wikipedia (take it for what it's worth):
"... the passing of the 21st amendment in 1933, which was followed by the adoption of minimum legal drinking age policies in all states, with MOST states electing a minimum legal drinking age (MLDA) of 21. Between 1970 and 1975, 29 states lowered the MLDA from 21 to 18, 19, or 20. This was primarily due to the passing of the 26th Amendment which lowered the required voting age from 21 to 18."
I have no knowledge of (when) NY (first) allowed 18-year-olds to legally drink, but Mark is correct that it was legal in the 60's.
A (much younger) friend of mine was pis... uh, perturbed, because her birth date was 2 weeks too late, and she got 'screwed' twice - when they changed it to 19, and again when it went to 21. Sucked to be her! Just kidding, Michelle!
Yeah, Dave. I know the Oakfield one quite well. I 'grew up' in S. Alabama, and have relation over that way. You're right, it takes forever to get into, or out of, Oakfield. As for the horns honking, I just drive the limit, get to the right, and it's up to others if they wanna speed.
Through the years, I've probably made a lot of people mad because I was obeying the limit. Sucks to be them!
Several years ago, I was tooling along, at 55, between Le Roy and Pavilion. Some guy was riding my @#@, wanting to get by. Finally, he got a chance, and zoomed by. I was grateful, because I can stay far enough behind him that, should anything happen, I had room to stop. When they're behind you, you're kinda at THEIR mercy, should YOU have to stop quickly. Anyways, I pulled into the gas station in Pavilion and went inside. Doesn't this perfect stranger launch into a tirade, at me, for being the one to slow him down. It was that same guy that zoomed past me, and he recognized my car. Guess he wanted to get to the gas station before what? They ran outta gas?
So I said, "Look. I was going the speed limit. I wasn't going 45 or 50. I was doing 55. I don't care if you do 100mph. That's up to you. But, as far back as I can remember, YOU never showed up in court to pay MY speeding tickets, so don't tell me how to drive! And, now that I know what car YOU drive, don't tailgate me, because I just might imagine a pheasant flew up in front of me, and I'll instinctively slam the brakes on. And that'll be on YOU!"
D'ya think I made a friend that day?
Dave, it is interesting that you bring up the Oakfield "speed trap". When the government (Oakfield) chose Viking Cives for their plow truck, you applauded it because it was good for local business. The 30 mph speed limit was extended out to that area (if my memory serves me correctly) when Santy's Hardware opened up there. A local business and traffic safety are much better served when cars are pulling into and out of a business in a 30 mph zone than a 55mph zone. It has always been my understanding that that is why the lower speed limit was extended to there...to help promote both local business and traffic safety. We now have two businesses out there with the former photo studio now printing shop. So don't look at it as a speed trap, but as a protector of local business.
I really don;t care why Oakfield did it or if they change it or not. I have the same attitude Ed does, I pay attention and don't get tickets. When my doing the speed limit irritates someone I return the gesture. I can't quite see the similarities between the plow purchase and a speed limit. But hey. I had a great day at the Old Fort Niagara French & Indian War encampment and battle re-enactment and dinner with some good guys & didn't get any speeding tickets. I hope you all had a great day as well. Tomorrow, the Ramble.
Dave, glad you had a great day and thanks for engaging in debate, a pleasure as usual. Old Fort Niagara sounds like a good time, been many years since I was there.
The first time I was in Old Fort Niagara was also the last time. I was 13, and don't think I'd want to change my experience by viewing it as an adult. Some things seen as a youngin' best be left alone. I still have my faculties, so I can rely on the memory bank. Of course, we didn't have any video cameras or such back then, but if I get to the point of needing them to recollect something, I probably won't know what I'm looking at anyways.
Another speed trap is in Batavia on Ellicott St coming SE towards East Bethany. The speed limit is 30MPH all the way to the 45 MPH sign just past the intersection with Cedar street. The last 30 MPH sign is long before the 45 MPH sign is even visible and everyone seems to think that the speed limit is 45 MPH once they get past the railroad bridges. I routinely am tailgated by truckers and other drivers in that stretch of road. Occasionally there's a city cop car sitting near Ferrell gas, but they typically sit in the parking lot of tri county glass.