It always amazes me when people from out of town come to city hall and complain about what we in the city had to do to balance our budget. Do they feel my taxes are not high enough?

Isn't this a dead issue..The plumbing inspectors post has been changed to part time..

Yes. Your budget is set in the beginning of the year. The needs of the city are filled with that position being part-time.

Mark: That's not an easy question to answer. At least, not from how this issue was covered in the Daily News. It was stated, in today's article, that Barb Toal was "told at the end of October that her full-time job would get cut to part-time effective Nov. 4." Later on in the article, it is written: "A budget vote of 8-1 by the April 1 deadline was to authorize the move and save the city at least $37,000 in pay and benefits."

So here's the question: This decision was made in April. Why wasn't Toal informed until October? Why did the change not take effect until November?

If Toal was informed of the change in April, you could say that this is a dead issue that for some reason was recently rehashed. But if she was not told about the change until October, we have to ask: Why?

I cannot talk about a specific employee issue.

Be assured, budget decisions made by council are verbalized to staff at the time they are made.

She knew back in April. And she was not the only employee to be cut to half time, but it seems she has more friends.

I don't know her, but I have seen her around town. I don't know if she was needed or not. She may have been the best worker ever, or just kept on because she had friends, I don't know. And that is not the point.

What I do know was that in the early part of the year everyone was demanding cuts at City Hall? Everybody was saying we have too many people working there. Well, they cut the Director of Community Development, they cut out the City Engineer, they didn't fill Police Officer positions, cut back on equipment for the Fire Department and cut back to half time two employees, one being Barb Toal.

This is what the public demanded, until it was their friend. So just where did you want cuts made? You demanded the tax rate be dropped from almost 20% to under 10% and it was. Now you cry foul. Not one of the people who are now saying she should be back to full time came to Council at budget time and demanded no cuts be made-why not?

Who's replacing Barb? Or isn't there going to be a full-time plumbing inspector?

Seems to me if you had a full timer you wouldn't knock them down to part and then hire another to work full in an attempt to save money

what are the qualifications for a plumbing inspector?

Russ,
There will be no full time plumbing inspector, at least not for the rest of this budget year. They did not vote any money for a full time one after Oct.1st, and the vote was 8-1.

While I understand her friends coming to her aid now, where were they at budget time demanding no jobs be cut at City Hall. Only one guy, a plumber, came and said she was need full time. Most of us do not know enough about the job to say she should or should not have been cut, but her friends should have spoken then.

John, you make a great point -- people need to speak up -- better decisions are made when many voices are heard.

Things might have turned out the same, but at least the people complaining now would -- hopefully -- understand better that it was the best choice (not saying it was, just theoretical here).

On the Internet, there is something called the 90-9-1 rule. One percent contribute most of the content, nine percent contribute a little, but 90 percent remain silent. The problem with that tendency is the one percent who dominate the conversation rarely represent the other 90 percent. They are the extremes of positions, far too often.

More people need to speak up so that their ideas and thoughts are fairly represented in the debate.

"Most of us do not know enough about the job to say she should or should not have been cut, but her friends should have spoken then." Let me see if I understand you correctly, John: You hadn't a clue as to what the job entailed nor how it affected the health or welfare of the citizens of Batavia when you made your decision, but you insist that its up to Barb's friends instead of the sitting council members to provide evidence whether or not to dismiss her from the position or to do away with the position. The public support of her friends and acquaintances should hold more sway than your informed and considered opinions?

If that's what you're saying, its a ridiculously inept way of doing business.

Russ, your right.
Everybody wants cuts to government to lower their taxes until it is their friend. I was at the budget meetings and heard people demand cuts inside City Hall. Cuts were made and now look.

Wait until next year when Council looks at the Youth Dept. again and the ambulance service for the Towns and Villages. There will be hell to pay. The yell will be "cut the other guy, not me".

You dodged my question, John. You admitted you didn't have a clue what the job entailed. Yet, you put the onus on Barb's friends to forestall an uninformed decision. That's an abdication of responsibility. You do realize that plumbing inspection is a public safety issue, don't you? Again, John, I ask you; is public outcry the only basis on which decisions regarding the public health and welfare are made?

a good jab but he did say "most"
Not everyone can be an expert so you do have to rely on those few that are
Not that I completely trust the opinions of 1 or 2 experts, either

Russ,
No dodge here, you just missed the boat again. Please read this stuff a bit closer.

True, I do not know about her job, but back in March, when the budget was being passed, City Council and the City Manager did have the information, made what they considered an informed decision, and voted 8-1 to make the cut. I had no interest one way or the other in her job. I tried to save the Police Dispatch Officers (A public safety issue), but then I was not voting on the budget, was I? If her friends wanted her job kept full time, they should have gone to Council then, six months ago and fought for her. The cut was in the Daily News for anyone to read.

Were you there? Did you speak on this cut or on any of the cuts, or did you not have enough information to form an opinion?

As for public outcry the only basis on some decisions being made by Council? Are you serious? It may not be the only factor, but you have to be a special kind of stupid not to think that some political types don't take the public outcry/public input into account when voting on public health, welfare or anything else.

You are a member of the Dem. Party Comm., so you know better.

"The Public" has a responsibility to speak out BEFORE decisions are made, to be informed, to have an informed opinion. It's hardly appropriate to blame public officials for doing what they thought was right after the fact if you didn't speak out in the first place (and want to speak now).

I’m usually happy if the public takes any interest at all. It’s very difficult to weigh all sides of an issue with the little feedback we get from the public.

As a general rule, council doesn’t take any issue lightly and we don’t act without full knowledge. When council votes 9-0 or 8-1 on an issue, don’t assume you would react any differently if you had all the information we do. Budget decisions are not easy, the answer might be clear but, that doesn’t mean you don’t stay up nights thinking about it.

No assumption, Charlie, and didn't mean to imply council doesn't weigh each decision carefully, but experience has taught me, multiple viewpoints often reveal unexpected insights. You can never have too many people involved in the process. That doesn't mean they all need to show up at the council meetings. People now have The Batavian to offer their POVs, but they've always had letters to the editor or letters to council.

Ok I don't know anyone on here - but I have to agree with Russ. John I have read your posts very clearly and it seems that you think that having Ms Toal's friends come and speak on her behalf should have some kind of weight. Personally I don't care how great a person she is - the real point is whether we need a plumbing inspector full time. This seems like it would be easy enough to figure out. I am sure we keep track of the number of plumbing inspections requested/required on a monthly, yearly etc. basis. I am not exactly sure what else the plumbing inspector does but we must have some kind of an idea. Do we have to go back to business 101 to determine staffing levels? This really isn't difficult stuff. To keep someone on just so she can get her benefits is wrong. If someone can prove that the work or public safety is going to suffer because she was dropped to part-time then ok - if not then there really isn't much to argue with.

Tiffany,
What I mean is that if you are her friend and wanted to help her, you should have done it at budget time. There was a big outcry at budget time to save the Director of the Youth Department and Council kept her job instead of consolidating it with the county.

Council sometimes make decisions based on hard facts and we all know that at times they make them based on friendship or public opinion. That does not make it right, but we know it is true.

In Ms. Toal's cases, they had reports from the City Manager showing they did not need her full time. The manager used the type of reports you say should be used. Now, six months into the budget year, her friends want council to second guess. Even if they wanted to change their mind, where would the money come from since it was not budgeted for?

And what about the other employee cut to half time, or the Dir. of Economic Development that was cut?

Ya know i remember back when i joined the batavian.I will never forget the way we were forced from our apartment at 119 state. where we lived for 6 years.I have the letter from Barb Toal about Ognibenes code violations.I called and asked her for some more information.I got a very rude reply.I emailed her she emailed me a nys webstite.All i asked for was a copy of a dryer vent code.The way i feel is very personal.Mabe, Barb Toal should start looking at violations instead of looking the other way.I was told by someone from hud no names that they rented our old apartment to someone on hud.I sure wish i could go down there right now and see if they really made them fix it.Or was it just a big fat lie to get us out?See the MJO Mike Ognibene, properties kept our whole 650$ security.The said its our fault that the frig leaked and ruined the floor.When we left that apartment was cleaner than when we moved in.I defrosted the frig.Which leaked for 6 years.I think the city does need a full time plumbing inspector.Only a whole new one.I am not the only one who has had problems with mike ognibene properties.Why is it the people at Hud feel sorry for Mike Ognibene?And they saw the Utube video?Hud and the inspectors are a direct link to our former eviction.It was wrong W.I had to spend all my boys savings to move.And be ripped off for the security when we were illegally evicted.Yes evicted.See saying they were not renewing a lease and at the end it said if you don't move they will evict you.The city should have tried to help us to get our money back.Beginning with Barb Toal...We were thrown out because of Barbs letter to Ognibenes.They got angry because they were actually asked to fix something.Why didn't someone inspect the home when it was sold to Ognibenes?I wish i could get together with some other former tenants of ognibenes who had the same thing happen.There are more.Way more.Under HUD laws "bad" landlords are not to ever collect money again.Unfortunatly Hud is not on the side of the poor who need it.They are on the side of the slumlords.The ones who reap giant profits and are allowed to rent gouge.And Hud will tell you if you get evicted your shut off.So you should fear hud they can ruin your life in a second.Mabe just mabe this is a tiny bit off subject mabe not.They all work in the "Mall".

Dan,
Maybe you can get City Council to bring back for a vote the Slum Lord law that councilman Frank Ferrando had "tabled" for review more than 2 1/2 years ago. They seem to be very afraid to bring it back up