I think Tasers are more safe than guns. Police also put their lives at risk when pulling their firearm. Anything could happen while that gun is drawn. With a taser, the officer can stand back, and shoot, and paralize the assailent, and gain control of him, without risk of bodily harm to them. I think the tazer is a great deturant as well, for criminals, drunks, and disorderlys. They see that tazer and they are begging for mercy, and will conform to the instruction of the officer.
Mornin Pete, I just think it is safer to pull a taser when things get out of control. Guns kill, tasers subdue them. What do you think Howard? Your the cop that would know.
We didn't have Tasers in the USAF when I was a cop. I have no experience with them.
There have been some high profile cases of Tasers _apparently_ being misused, but I emphasis "high profile," meaning that doesn't mean that kind of misuse is anywhere near the norm.
Just like many cops never pull their guns during the course of their careers (I pulled mine once in four years), my bet is these Tasers would remain holstered for years at a time, and most of the time when pulled, not used.
Even though they are non-lethal, it's got to be a traumatic event for the suspect/subject ... and to be Tasered when innocent must be really traumatic ... and I suspect every professional law enforcement officer gets that and will use them responsibly.
So, with the assumptions of responsible use, I would rather see them in the field than not -- when used properly, they will save lives, either of officers or innocent bystanders or the suspects themselves.
I would rather be tased then hit with the old school "black jack" or a billie club. I think its a humane way of dealing with un cooperative suspects. When I was in the USAF we marched with a flashlight. When I was pulled over on base the Police had m-16 rifles and that was the weapon in my face. I think mace is okay but i would prefer to be tased if i needed to be subdued !
When I was in the service I had a few friends on the VBSS team (read boarding party). They all had to get sprayed with mace in order to know it affects. If they were to use it they were responsible for the person they sprayed till they got them medical attention. They all told me they would rather just shoot someone than use the mace.
Gabor,
I know a Rochester Police Sergeant, part of his duties were to train officers in the use of pepper spay and tazers, he told me he would rather "take a bath in pepper spay" as opposed to being tazered! (He had to be peeper sprayed and tazered in order to teach officers how to use these non-lethal weapons) He told me the Tazer was very, very painful!
Posted by Gary Spencer on June 12, 2009 - 10:16am
Gabor,
I know a Rochester Police Sergeant, part of his duties were to train officers in the use of pepper spay and tazers, he told me he would rather "take a bath in pepper spay" as opposed to being tazered! (He had to be peeper sprayed and tazered in order to teach officers how to use these non-lethal weapons) He told me the Tazer was very, very painful!
Gary, good information.
I couldn't help wonder about that elderly lady who was in the news this week. I'm not condoning her actions, nor am I the judge of the officer. When a tazer is used on an elderly person, is there a chance of doing mortal harm? Can it stop a heart? If so, how does one justify the death of someone stopped for a traffic infraction?
This is an extreme example, I know.
Most likely, as Howard said, most officers wouldn't use it once in the course of a career.
If I was given the choice i would rather be tasered ! I have a tolerance for pain but I know what hot peppers do to my inner "plumming" and hate stuff in my eyes. In all seriousness I think every law enforcement officer should have both of these at there disposal not a club or stick. When they use it then let the scrutiny happen if it was justly used or not.
Only bullies will abuse them. Screen your cadets carefully. The idiot in Texas is an elected Deputy Constable on his last term. After tasing her and screaming at her, to put her hands behind her back twice, it is now being reported that he tased her again. At the end of the full released tape she says: "I can't" the first time he screamed at her and "I'm trying" the second time. I have bursitis and inflammatory arthritis and I know what she was talking about. He showed an evil sadistic side of himself that people need to know about and now they do. As my friend at St. Mary's grade school once remarked about the departure of Sister Mary Beth to Pakistan on a mission to save the Pagean Babies: "Good riddance to bad rubbish." He was escorted from the classroom by his ear.
I had a Nun pull me by my ear once and I am still for the taser. I saw that video about the elderly lady and maybe it was extreme but at least he didnt smack her. I learned along time ago you dont smart mouth an officer without consequences. (true dat).
While most cops are doing an outstanding job upholding the laws and protecting the public good and use common sense along with a good temperament while making arrests or issuing tickets, there are those rare exceptions within the ranks who are just itching to assert more authority than is necessary. Escalation can occur quickly -- add pepper spray, a taser and a gun to an over enthused cop and the results can sometimes lead to misconduct or brutality over a simple traffic stop.
The 72 year old great grandmother may have become a tad belligerent, but that constable was combative from the onset, from what I observed. Was it really necessary for him to taser her twice for a routine traffic stop? Is a little bit of pleasantry from the officer too much to ask during the ticket writing process? He had to have seen that she was no threat. After all it's stressful for the driver, too.
A uniform doesn't qualify someone as an "authority figure". Experience, temperament, training mean much more than a badge and utility belt.
I respect law enforcement officers more for the restraint they show on a daily basis than the force some show when things go wrong. Its that sustained level of self-discipline that separates them from the rest of us.
Russ,
I have been in law enforcement for over 20 years and anyone who knows me will agree that the "jackboots" comment could not be farther from the truth. A badge DOES qualify someone as an authority figure. That is how our justice system is set-up. Yes there are a few bad apples that spoil every bunch and unfortunately they are the ones we read about in the paper while hundreds of thousands of men and women in uniform do there jobs with the experience, temperment and restraint you refer to(myself included)and do so in complete anonymity. Now back to the point at hand. If, when people are pulled over, questioned, detained, or interviewed, they behaved in a way commensurate with their innocence, we would see far fewer of these "outrageous" videos on TV and internet. In my experience, the situations that deteriorate into what we determine in a short snippet of the video to be inappropriate uses of force, the person being dealt with has ignored repeated lawful orders by experienced, even tempered law enforcement officials, and put themselves into the situations that are plastered all over the evening news. Again, there are those in positions of authority who take unnecessary actions that lead to abuse of power but they are a very small percentage of the hard-working professionals who do an exemplary job everyday.
A badge <b>does not</b> qualify someone as an authority figure. Our justice system doesn't stop at arrest. Our law enforcement officers don't operate in 'anonymity'.
This is,possibly, one of the most ridiculously, anti-American statements I've ever read. <i>"If, when people are pulled over, questioned, detained, or interviewed, they behaved in a way commensurate with their innocence"</i>.
I lived for a time in a country where people who protested for their rights didn't always make it to court. Don't equate questioning of your assumed authority as evidence of guilt.
I'm not being dramatic, Jeff, when I say that your reasoning would frighten me if you were still in a position to arrest me.
Russ,
I give up since you are going to cherry pick snippets of my posts and use them out of context. It is, however shortsighted of you to assume that since you lived in another country that was apparently oppressive, that everyone you debate with is only seeing things from their respective home towns. I too have traveled the world in response to major disasters and airline crashes. I have worked in free countries and oppressive countries, I have experienced the very best and very worst of many cultures. I have worked closely with law enforcement agencies and military personnel from each of those countries as well as their citizens. Nothing I have stated can be misconstrued as anti-American. My experience has only lead me to greater love and appreciation for my country and I believe that our system of justice from infraction to incarceration, even with it's flaws, is second to none
Nothing in your comment addresses what I said. You end your post by saying how much you love America. You laud America's justice system. You accuse me of equating America to some Third World country. None of which is an argument. Instead of addressing what I said, you whine about being accused of not loving your homeland, you try to make it seem like I'm attacking America. Jeff, thy name is limbaugh.
But, most telling, you give up in the very first sentence.
I appreciate your implied agreement.
By way of specific disclosure, I was in the Philippines as an American expatriate when Aquino was assassinated. People who were seen calmly accepting the handcuffs weren't always seen again. Don't you dare try to imply that anyone who questions authority is automatically guilty.
Russ,
You obviously feel very strongly about your convictions as do I, and for that I respect the strength of your conviction. It must have been an extremely tumultuous time to live in the Philipines and one that has left an indelible imprint on your view of the world as have my experiences in other countries.
It has been a healthy debate but my giving up is by no means implied agreement. It is simply exercising the obvious, that we stand on two sides of very volatile issues.
I have been a gentleman in my debate, not resorting to negative personal assessments. I will not cut and paste yours into this text as they are clear in the original posts.
I have stuck with the context of the issues, but you continued to take statements completely out of context and make inaccurate assumptions based on misinterpretations. I stand by the content of my posts.
I am however, a strong proponent of civil discourse and as I reread my writing I am uncomfortable with some of the tone and tenor. For that Russ, I sincerely apologize to you. I allowed myself to get caught up in the emotion of the conversation. I hope that you and I can debate other issues in the future, but for now I will wrap up my participation in these posts.
They are already carrying a
They are already carrying a gun. Why not carry a taser?
There's always that urge to
There's always that urge to be trigger happy if your weapon isn't lethal and your suspect isn't cooperating as well as you would like.
I think Tasers are more safe
I think Tasers are more safe than guns. Police also put their lives at risk when pulling their firearm. Anything could happen while that gun is drawn. With a taser, the officer can stand back, and shoot, and paralize the assailent, and gain control of him, without risk of bodily harm to them. I think the tazer is a great deturant as well, for criminals, drunks, and disorderlys. They see that tazer and they are begging for mercy, and will conform to the instruction of the officer.
You realize most tasers
You realize most tasers require you to be in reach of the person right? And that taking a long range taser is as easy as taking a gun?
If a gun is not a deterrent then a taser isn't going to be either.
Mornin Pete, I just think it
Mornin Pete, I just think it is safer to pull a taser when things get out of control. Guns kill, tasers subdue them. What do you think Howard? Your the cop that would know.
We didn't have Tasers in the
We didn't have Tasers in the USAF when I was a cop. I have no experience with them.
There have been some high profile cases of Tasers _apparently_ being misused, but I emphasis "high profile," meaning that doesn't mean that kind of misuse is anywhere near the norm.
Just like many cops never pull their guns during the course of their careers (I pulled mine once in four years), my bet is these Tasers would remain holstered for years at a time, and most of the time when pulled, not used.
Even though they are non-lethal, it's got to be a traumatic event for the suspect/subject ... and to be Tasered when innocent must be really traumatic ... and I suspect every professional law enforcement officer gets that and will use them responsibly.
So, with the assumptions of responsible use, I would rather see them in the field than not -- when used properly, they will save lives, either of officers or innocent bystanders or the suspects themselves.
I would rather be tased then
I would rather be tased then hit with the old school "black jack" or a billie club. I think its a humane way of dealing with un cooperative suspects. When I was in the USAF we marched with a flashlight. When I was pulled over on base the Police had m-16 rifles and that was the weapon in my face. I think mace is okay but i would prefer to be tased if i needed to be subdued !
When I was in the service I
When I was in the service I had a few friends on the VBSS team (read boarding party). They all had to get sprayed with mace in order to know it affects. If they were to use it they were responsible for the person they sprayed till they got them medical attention. They all told me they would rather just shoot someone than use the mace.
I wonder if the Navy will switch to tasers
Gabor, I know a Rochester
Gabor,
I know a Rochester Police Sergeant, part of his duties were to train officers in the use of pepper spay and tazers, he told me he would rather "take a bath in pepper spay" as opposed to being tazered! (He had to be peeper sprayed and tazered in order to teach officers how to use these non-lethal weapons) He told me the Tazer was very, very painful!
What in the world is the big
What in the world is the big deal? The City of Batavia has Tasers, why not the Sheriffs
Posted by Gary Spencer on
Posted by Gary Spencer on June 12, 2009 - 10:16am
Gabor,
I know a Rochester Police Sergeant, part of his duties were to train officers in the use of pepper spay and tazers, he told me he would rather "take a bath in pepper spay" as opposed to being tazered! (He had to be peeper sprayed and tazered in order to teach officers how to use these non-lethal weapons) He told me the Tazer was very, very painful!
Gary, good information.
I couldn't help wonder about that elderly lady who was in the news this week. I'm not condoning her actions, nor am I the judge of the officer. When a tazer is used on an elderly person, is there a chance of doing mortal harm? Can it stop a heart? If so, how does one justify the death of someone stopped for a traffic infraction?
This is an extreme example, I know.
Most likely, as Howard said, most officers wouldn't use it once in the course of a career.
If I was given the choice i
If I was given the choice i would rather be tasered ! I have a tolerance for pain but I know what hot peppers do to my inner "plumming" and hate stuff in my eyes. In all seriousness I think every law enforcement officer should have both of these at there disposal not a club or stick. When they use it then let the scrutiny happen if it was justly used or not.
Only bullies will abuse them.
Only bullies will abuse them. Screen your cadets carefully. The idiot in Texas is an elected Deputy Constable on his last term. After tasing her and screaming at her, to put her hands behind her back twice, it is now being reported that he tased her again. At the end of the full released tape she says: "I can't" the first time he screamed at her and "I'm trying" the second time. I have bursitis and inflammatory arthritis and I know what she was talking about. He showed an evil sadistic side of himself that people need to know about and now they do. As my friend at St. Mary's grade school once remarked about the departure of Sister Mary Beth to Pakistan on a mission to save the Pagean Babies: "Good riddance to bad rubbish." He was escorted from the classroom by his ear.
TASERS AND RAZORS--SHOCK AND
TASERS AND RAZORS--SHOCK AND SHAVE
HAVE A GREAT WEEKEND EVERYBODY
I had a Nun pull me by my ear
I had a Nun pull me by my ear once and I am still for the taser. I saw that video about the elderly lady and maybe it was extreme but at least he didnt smack her. I learned along time ago you dont smart mouth an officer without consequences. (true dat).
When I get pulled over I just
When I get pulled over I just say: "Don't tase me bro', don't tase me." Sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't.
Tasers don't hurt people,
Tasers don't hurt people, only fools who refuse to cooperate with authority figures put themselves in positions to be hurt by tasers!
Jeff, How much spit does it
Jeff,
How much spit does it take to polish those jackboots?
I agree with the screening,
I agree with the screening, George.
While most cops are doing an outstanding job upholding the laws and protecting the public good and use common sense along with a good temperament while making arrests or issuing tickets, there are those rare exceptions within the ranks who are just itching to assert more authority than is necessary. Escalation can occur quickly -- add pepper spray, a taser and a gun to an over enthused cop and the results can sometimes lead to misconduct or brutality over a simple traffic stop.
The 72 year old great grandmother may have become a tad belligerent, but that constable was combative from the onset, from what I observed. Was it really necessary for him to taser her twice for a routine traffic stop? Is a little bit of pleasantry from the officer too much to ask during the ticket writing process? He had to have seen that she was no threat. After all it's stressful for the driver, too.
A uniform doesn't qualify
A uniform doesn't qualify someone as an "authority figure". Experience, temperament, training mean much more than a badge and utility belt.
I respect law enforcement officers more for the restraint they show on a daily basis than the force some show when things go wrong. Its that sustained level of self-discipline that separates them from the rest of us.
Russ, I have been in law
Russ,
I have been in law enforcement for over 20 years and anyone who knows me will agree that the "jackboots" comment could not be farther from the truth. A badge DOES qualify someone as an authority figure. That is how our justice system is set-up. Yes there are a few bad apples that spoil every bunch and unfortunately they are the ones we read about in the paper while hundreds of thousands of men and women in uniform do there jobs with the experience, temperment and restraint you refer to(myself included)and do so in complete anonymity. Now back to the point at hand. If, when people are pulled over, questioned, detained, or interviewed, they behaved in a way commensurate with their innocence, we would see far fewer of these "outrageous" videos on TV and internet. In my experience, the situations that deteriorate into what we determine in a short snippet of the video to be inappropriate uses of force, the person being dealt with has ignored repeated lawful orders by experienced, even tempered law enforcement officials, and put themselves into the situations that are plastered all over the evening news. Again, there are those in positions of authority who take unnecessary actions that lead to abuse of power but they are a very small percentage of the hard-working professionals who do an exemplary job everyday.
Jeff, Sorry. You're
Jeff,
Sorry. You're wrong, very wrong.
A badge <b>does not</b> qualify someone as an authority figure. Our justice system doesn't stop at arrest. Our law enforcement officers don't operate in 'anonymity'.
This is,possibly, one of the most ridiculously, anti-American statements I've ever read. <i>"If, when people are pulled over, questioned, detained, or interviewed, they behaved in a way commensurate with their innocence"</i>.
I lived for a time in a country where people who protested for their rights didn't always make it to court. Don't equate questioning of your assumed authority as evidence of guilt.
I'm not being dramatic, Jeff, when I say that your reasoning would frighten me if you were still in a position to arrest me.
Russ, I give up since you are
Russ,
I give up since you are going to cherry pick snippets of my posts and use them out of context. It is, however shortsighted of you to assume that since you lived in another country that was apparently oppressive, that everyone you debate with is only seeing things from their respective home towns. I too have traveled the world in response to major disasters and airline crashes. I have worked in free countries and oppressive countries, I have experienced the very best and very worst of many cultures. I have worked closely with law enforcement agencies and military personnel from each of those countries as well as their citizens. Nothing I have stated can be misconstrued as anti-American. My experience has only lead me to greater love and appreciation for my country and I believe that our system of justice from infraction to incarceration, even with it's flaws, is second to none
Jeff, Nothing in your
Jeff,
Nothing in your comment addresses what I said. You end your post by saying how much you love America. You laud America's justice system. You accuse me of equating America to some Third World country. None of which is an argument. Instead of addressing what I said, you whine about being accused of not loving your homeland, you try to make it seem like I'm attacking America. Jeff, thy name is limbaugh.
But, most telling, you give up in the very first sentence.
I appreciate your implied agreement.
By way of specific disclosure, I was in the Philippines as an American expatriate when Aquino was assassinated. People who were seen calmly accepting the handcuffs weren't always seen again. Don't you dare try to imply that anyone who questions authority is automatically guilty.
Russ, You obviously feel very
Russ,
You obviously feel very strongly about your convictions as do I, and for that I respect the strength of your conviction. It must have been an extremely tumultuous time to live in the Philipines and one that has left an indelible imprint on your view of the world as have my experiences in other countries.
It has been a healthy debate but my giving up is by no means implied agreement. It is simply exercising the obvious, that we stand on two sides of very volatile issues.
I have been a gentleman in my debate, not resorting to negative personal assessments. I will not cut and paste yours into this text as they are clear in the original posts.
I have stuck with the context of the issues, but you continued to take statements completely out of context and make inaccurate assumptions based on misinterpretations. I stand by the content of my posts.
I am however, a strong proponent of civil discourse and as I reread my writing I am uncomfortable with some of the tone and tenor. For that Russ, I sincerely apologize to you. I allowed myself to get caught up in the emotion of the conversation. I hope that you and I can debate other issues in the future, but for now I will wrap up my participation in these posts.