Pro-business group says it likes Hawley's voting record

Unshackle Upstate is a Republican shill PAC. No surprises here.

Nationally? Yes.

Chris, Are you or your business,a member of the Chamber, either locally or nationally?

Chris, If the Chamber is a supporter or member of Unshackle Upstate, and if your a member of the Chamber, you have to love the irony of being a member of a group that indirectly supports the guy you are trying hard to unseat.

Because I can do basic math JoAnne, I went to public school after all. John, you won't find any irony here because I don't own a business. Also the business I am employed by has operated for better than 52 years and has never been a member of the Chamber locally or nationally. This is also the last time that I'll allow you to discuss my livelihood; it holds no bearing on discussions about politics.

Partners of Unshackle Upstate •Albany-Colonie Chamber of Commerce •Amherst Chamber of Commerce •Artizahn Dental Studio, Inc. •Berkshire Properties, LLC •Brighton Chamber of Commerce •Brinkman International Group •Buffalo Niagara Association of Realtors •Buffalo Niagara Partnership •Buffalo Rising •Business Council of New York State •Canandaigua Chamber of Commerce •Cayuga County Chamber of Commerce •Chamber of Commerce of Ulster County •Chautauqua County Chamber of Commerce •Chemung County Chamber of Commerce •Chenango County Chamber of Commerce •City of Auburn Mayor, Timothy C. Lattimore •City of Utica •Clinton Chamber of Commerce •Corning Area Chamber of Commerce •Cortland County Chamber of Commerce •Delaware County Chamber of Commerce •East Aurora Chamber of Commerce, Greater •FindCNY.com •Finger Lakes Radio Group •Fulton County Regional Chamber of Commerce & Industry •Genesee County Chamber of Commerce •Geneva Chamber of Commerce •Gore Mountain Region Chamber of Commerce •Greater Binghamton Association of Realtors •Greater Binghamton Chamber of Commerce •Greater Buffalo Building Owners and Managers Association •Greater Rochester Association of REALTORS® •Greater Syracuse Association of REALTORS •Greater Syracuse Chamber of Commerce •Greater Watertown - Northcountry Chamber of Commerce •Greece Chamber of Commerce •Greene Technologies, Inc •Hamburg Chamber of Commerce •Hilton-Parma Chamber of Commerce •Home Builders and Remodelers Association of Central New York •Independent Insurance Agents & Brokers of New York, Inc. •Iroquois Healthcare Alliance •Johnson City Citizens for Affordability •Junior Achievement of Central New York •Lancaster Chamber of Commerce •Leed Steel Co., Inc. •Madison County Tourism Inc. •Manufacturers Association of Central New York (MACNY) •Mohawk Valley Chamber of Commerce •Morrell Builders •National Federation of Independent Business •National Pipe & Plastics, Inc. •New York Farm Bureau •New York Workers' Compensation Action Network (NYCAN) •NFIB •Niagara Frontier Subcontractors Association •Niagara USA Chamber of Commerce •Orchard Park Chamber of Commerce •Orleans County Chamber of Commerce •Phelps Chamber of Commerce •Plattsburgh-North Country Chamber of Commerce •Printing Industries Alliance •Rochester Automobile Dealers Association •Rochester Business Alliance •Rochester Downtown Development Corporation •Rochester Home Builders Association •Rochester Regional Veterans Business Council •Rochester Young Professionals •Schenectady County Chamber of Commerce •Seneca County Chamber of Commerce •Small Business Council of the Rochester Business Alliance •Southern Tier Homebuilders and Remodelers Association •St. Lawrence County Chamber of Commerce •Support Services Alliance, Inc •The Otsego County Chamber •Tioga County Chamber of Commerce •Tompkins County Chamber of Commerce •Turnaround Management Association, Upstate New York Chapter •Tuthill Lighting •Upstate New York Tourism Alliance •Victor Chamber of Commerce •Webster Chamber of Commerce •Webster Schools •Wyoming County Chamber of Commerce •Yates County Chamber of Commerce •Yates County- Glenora Wine Cellars http://unshackleupstate.com/partners/

"John, you won't find any irony here because I don't own a business. Also the business I am employed by......" You could probably make that argument if you were working for say; Hanson Aggregates or Boyle's Motor Sales, but you don't. Most folks know there's a little more to it than that so what's wrong with full disclosure?

Chris, Your employment has nothing to do with it. You slammed a group that is affiliated with a local group. Many businesses in this area belong to that group, and there was a better than even chance yours did.

Chris’s political opinions have nothing to do with his family’s business. I’m sure the members of his family disagree politically just like all others. Also Chris isn’t representing his place of employment when he posts and I DO think where he works is off limits. If people are going to start pulling in where people work, Howard is going to end up with only posts from retired people.

Agreed, but you gotta start somewhere.

CANY is a liberal shill PAC. You can't simply take the word of PAC's about any candidate. PAC's are, by definition, ridiculously biased against any person or party that doesn't support them 100%.

JoAnne, who cares if a PAC is a liberal or conservative shill? The point is if a business or a group contributes money to a political candidate or party, they expect more than "good government" in return. I can go along with CANY's public funding of election campaigns, but not much else they promote. Public funding of anything usually goes against my views, but we need to get the money out of the election process.

Chris, That's why this site is so successful. We all get to express our opinion if we want.

Good point Chris, and I noticed there wasn't a whole lot of opposition to what I said in my post. I'm sick and tired of business first, what about the voters? what about the unemployed, business is taking full advantage of the employment situation in this lousy economy. These temp. agencies are sucking away full time jobs, and businesses are using them to fill positions without paying benefits and a decent wage.

I don't think the temp agencies are the root of the problem. I'm pretty sure walmart is not using temp agencies to hire part time employees that don't qualify for benefits. This is one area I agree with you Howard. I think there needs to be more support for local business. That means people eating at mom an pop restaurants or locally owned franchise's. The Big Box stores are convenient but ultimately do have a negative affect on the local economy.

Dave, you'll have to ask Chris why he cares about PAC's, he's the one that brought them up as a way to discredit Unshackle Upstate. I could care less and I stated that in my post. Chris, please show me where I showed up to defend Steve. I didn't mention his name. My first reaction to this article was to do my homework. I had never heard of Unshackle Upstate. What I found was a group that is composed of area Chambers dedicated to promoting small business. They picked pro-business criteria (legislation, etc), which I read, and they used it as the basis for the report card. My comments were directed toward your knee-jerk reaction to discredit the findings, not to praise Steve Hawley. Saying that it is just a Republican shill PAC just means that you really don't have any proof to dispute the findings, so let's just play the partisan card. It's no different than people that play the race card or racist card when they can't prove their point with facts. I don't know about you, but I vote for the person I feel is the best for the job, regardless of party affiliation. Steve Hawley may be my friend, but he, like anyone else, has to earn my vote at election time.

Dave, The article was pro Hawley, so Chris did what was expected, he tried to discredit the group. If Chris had just ignored it, most people would not have paid that much attention or known anything about them.

Actually I joined Unshackle Upstate on Facebook a month or so ago and get updates from them. They are very pro-corporate welfare. I don't believe tax breaks and bending of the rules for certain companies to build or expand helps the economy as a whole. If government would just stay out of business and let the.......wait for it......... free markets work....but no let's let a select few make a killing and the rest of us peons can go pound dirt if we refuse to believe we're being helped. Please Unshackle Upstate, don't pee on my leg and tell me it's rain

Frank, Even if you are right, is it their legal right? And because of a few business being unethical (hardly new since the 1700's) is it right to outlaw a whole class of business because of this? Remember, it's not the temp agency, according to you, that's the problem, but the business that hires the temp worker and then lets them go. And, besides not answering the question I put to you, what will you do with the people who worked for the temps after you take away their jobs?

John, seems apparent,I'm pro working man, you're pro business. Do these agencies work for free?,of course not. When I was a union member, and part of the contract negiotiating team, all we ever heard from the companys was poverty, yet, instead of using their human resource people, they paid temp agencies, then wanted to institute drug testing, all this, and they offered what amounted to be an insult to those who broke their butts to make a profit for the company. Drug testing may be a necessity in some places of employment, but the cheapest way is reasonable suspicion, it doesn't cost a cent. You don't need to be the sharpest knife in the drawer to detect drug and alcohol use.

John, to answer your question, if you take away the temps, the companies would either hire someone to fill the position,like they used to, before the spike in temp.agencies providing a cheap, benefit free employee pool. Or maybe they pack it in and move overseas, they have been doing that for years John, this way , they don't have to worry about safety, the environment, or their impact on the communities where they set up shop. It's just another tool of corporate greed John, and doesn't it seem a little suspicious when these companies move overseas to produce cheaper products,the consumer never sees those savings at point of sale. It is greed driven John, plain and simple.

Charlie, don't be naive, I'm talking about jobs that are performed on a daily basis, where the work is needed year round and being filled by temps.

Temp agencies were growing with the economy in the early 2000's its not a new trend. They are doing better now than ever because businesses are afraid to hire permanent employees with this congress and president

I'm not taking sides on this one, but just offering an observation. In this economy it would stand to reason that temp agencies are thriving. There are many people with excellent skills that are out of work. Temping offers them an opportunity to continue working. Many temp agencies offer benefits which include insurance, overtime, vacation pay, etc. In come cases, the hope is to be hired by the company for which a temp is working. In others, it is a chance to network with others in their field of expertise. That networking is an important outlet for learning of openings. Temps make a living working on projects that are short term. It makes sense, from a business standpoint, to bring in contractors for those projects.

So is the insurance industry greedy for making 4 cents on every dollar it spends? Are the oil companies greedy for making a dime for every dollar they spend? You do realize that CEO of large corporations are the pro athletes of the business world? There are few that have the expertise they do and they get justly compensated for it. Oh and if you have any stock you are an owner of that company and you profit when they do so don't complain. Sounds like Jealousy to me Frank.

Like I said earlier, John, it appears you are pro business and I'm pro labor, and I like how you avoid the pieces of my posts you can't argue with and go after the ones you can. And Peter, that growing economy you speak of had a false bottom, it was booming on borrowed money. Look what happened when it was exposed. If I were an employer,and I paid a person to be a human resources manager, what reason would I have to pay a third party to that job? Oh thats right, now I can lay off my human resource mgr., I don't have to pay the temp. agency benefits.Sounds like job creation to me.

Frank, What part can't I argue with? You want to ban a type of business, I don't think that's right. You also seem to want set government mandated benefits for every business, even if they can't afford them. Well, what are they? I know some companies already offer medical and some don't. Some offer paid vacations and some don't. Some offer more than minimum wage, some don't. Some offer full time employment and some don't. Some offer a retirement plan, some don't. What would your mandated benefits be? And what do you do to the employer who can not afford your mandates? And who decides if they can afford them? And as for some businesses being "greedy", when where some not? You read history, so you know that as far back as the Revolutionary War (and really, even before), people made this same complaint.

Frank, most people have a 401k with stock in. They are the working man, benefiting from the big business profits...

Peter, how well did your 401k do after 9/11? How well did it do when the bottom dropped out of the economy? I lost more than I could ever recover if I worked another 20 years.I personally don't believe all the losses were honest.

John , I think I made my point, see my last post directed to you.

Chris, there you go again...throwing out talking points instead of facts to support your argument. You said: "JoAnne, do you know what clawback provisions are? Unshackle Upstate hates them." There are different definitions of clawback provisions depending on the context in which they are used. I support clawback provisions in most cases, especially where fraud is involved for financial gain or to recapture incentives given when certain benchmarks are exceeded. They would have been a nice inclusion in the government bailout agreements so that we could have recaptured excessive executive compensation from companies like AIG, but that's a debate for another day. However, the context in which they are used in S.750, which is opposed by Unshackle Upstate, IS anti-business and I agree with their opposition. This bill would impose unfair performance and clawback provisions for businesses receiving tax credits or other assistance under the Empire Zones program or through Industrial Development Agencies. I do believe a clawback provision should be part of economic development agreements, but not in the context as presented in S.750. To make a blanket statement that Unshackle Upstate hates clawback agreements is, as Howard likes to say, a spurious argument. I've yet to find anything that justifies your statement that UU loves corporate welfare. Is there a specific piece of legislation that they either oppose or support that you disagree with or is that just another talking point?