Works for me. Great idea.

I encourage the Republicans to keep fighting, deadlock in Albany is good!

Peter your missing the point. The problems in Albany stem from party politics. I think we are better off sending the leaders on both sides packing and reelecting a new body without political party endorsements or sponsorship.

I am not missing the point. I don't want any of the bills passed, the longer there is a stalemate the better for me.

Political parties are an American tradition and are not going anywhere. Talk of abolishing them is only going to create new groups under different names.

Just because someone is an independent doesn't mean they would do a better job.

Peter, they won’t convene because neither “party” has a clear majority. Nothing seem wrong with that to you?

Independent people have to look at issues differently. They are not told what to think.

No it doesn't. All the major legislation on the table sucks. It all needs to be defeated. This is second best option to that defeat.

Of course, legislation decided in backrooms by the controlling party with little regard for what is good for the state as a whole would be bad. That’s how politics works in Albany, that’s why it’s broke.

So what's wrong with ruining the path that is required to enable the legislation?

I would rather cure the disease instead of controlling the symptoms. I’m also not being practical, I’m dreaming.

Well the Republicans are being practical and in my opinion are representing their views to the best of their current ability.

Peter,
I doubt you would be as happy if your unemployment check was held up by the impasse, since we all know now you want yource of the money pie.

Charlie has been consistent on this issue. He told the Daily News parties don’t matter, costing him much of his support in his own party. So he does walk the talk.

If government was shut down and no one got their checks, I would not be upset at all.

Peter,
Easy to say since you know that is not going to happen, the money was already approved for you to get yours.

Really Peter why bring Dan into this...Until you walk a mile in his shoes you shouldn't point fingers...

The difference between Dan and I was the original discussion Mark.

My feet wouldn't fit in his shoes, they are different sizes...

John if you think I am angry you're wrong.

Me being a net asset to the state's taxes is not an opinion.

Peter,
You're wrong again. The original point was Albany, not Dan. Stay on track.

You brought up my finances, not me. If Albany was the topic why is my personal life involved?

Albany is broken and needs to be fixed. If calling for the resignation of the lawmakers; holding primaries; and then new elections, will fix it then I'm all for it.

The privilege of the young and immature is to be a legend in their own mind. Pushing buttons is what they do for their own entertainment and to hell with whomever they offend. (those of us who had or have teenagers are well aware of this stage of development).
It isn't worth the effort to reason with them, just let them continue into their fantasy world of a lawless society and a misbegotten belief that their space on earth is more deserved than others.
The fall from that lofty height is mighty hard.
This 'old crone' will never accept that one is either a legend or a failure. Failure comes in many boxes. You can be successful in a career but fail as a contributing member of the community. You can be successful in accumulating wealth, but without compassion for others you fail as human being.
Blessed are the meek for they shall inherit the earth.
Without humility your lofty place on this earth is worthless.

Peter,

What credibility?

Your employer has no choice, he must pay the State by law, and then you take from the State (us). Just don’t take the money your employer was forced to pay, and you have credibility.

Likening or disliking the military does make you a better person and has nothing to do with this.

I hope the next time the vote for NY Constitutional Convention is on the ballot, everyone remembers this mess and votes yes unlike the last time.

Posted by Peter O'Brien on July 1, 2009 - 10:03am
I am taking from my employer when I take unemployment. It is not funded by the general tax payer.


Tune changed! Before you were taking money that was taken from YOU with a shotgun to your head.
Guess that one didn't fly, did it?

I say hit um where it hurts, in their pocket, cause as far as I'm concerned they are all extortionists. They have been sucking the taxpayers dry for far to long. They have been allowed to conduct themselves like fools, while raking in the doe.
Reform is definately needed in the Senate. Make them all pay us back for every day they wasted our time and money. Kinda like the bailout money, make them give it back. Only then will they feel the pinch that we do every day. No lavish vacations, big boats, mansions, cars, take it all. Only then will they quit their childish nonsence. They are lucky Im not the governor. I'd can all their *sses, without pay, and send them running home to mama , with their tail between their legs.

I researched funding for Unemployment Insurance and found that it does not come from the general tax payer as I believed before.

I never said I was better. You inferred that.

Posted by Karen Miconi on July 1, 2009 - 11:02am
I say hit um where it hurts, in their pocket, cause as far as I'm concerned they are all extortionists. They have been sucking the taxpayers dry for far to long. They have been allowed to conduct themselves like fools, while raking in the doe.
Reform is definately needed in the Senate. Make them all pay us back for every day they wasted our time and money. Kinda like the bailout money, make them give it back. Only then will they feel the pinch that we do every day. No lavish vacations, big boats, mansions, cars, take it all. Only then will they quit their childish nonsence. They are lucky Im not the governor. I'd can all their *sses, without pay, and send them running home to mama , with their tail between their legs.


You go girl!!!
That's telling em'.

Peter, give em hell. Unemployment and disability are two different things. I know it and you know it. You've tried explaining it. They don't understand. So, who cares. I', on your side. Anchors Away.

Posted by Peter O'Brien on July 1, 2009 - 10:58am
I researched funding for Unemployment Insurance and found that it does not come from the general tax payer as I believed before.

Peter,
Take it from an "old crone" that you will eventually learn that there are some things that you believe that are not always fact. Unemployment Insurance was one that stood out like a sore thumb.
Most likely you are a really nice guy away from the internet...you might even be someone I would like to know, however your online persona is way too adversarial and insulting for me.
Idealism is wonderful. It is intoxicating. This "old crone" loved that phase of my life. When you are older you will realize that not everything is black and white. There is a gray area in which most humans exist.
That realization comes with a price. We, mere mortals, are not perfect - we are not legends - we are humbled by the vast amount of knowledge that we still need to learn.
False pride is something that will take us down. The lack of compassion and concern for our neighbors may come back to bite us in the end...when we need it most.
Don't ever think that you will not need that compassion and concern, fate can turn on a dime.
You are hoping that the senators stay out of chambers for a long time so that no legislation can be enacted.
If our representatives, in Albany, are not working then they are failing us. It is time for all of them to turn in their credentials.

Posted by Tyler Hall on July 1, 2009 - 11:51am
Peter, give em hell. Unemployment and disability are two different things. I know it and you know it. You've tried explaining it. They don't understand. So, who cares. I', on your side. Anchors Away.

What was to explain. He maintained that the government took his money with a shotgun to his head and that is why he was entitled to Unemployment Insurance.
I remember asking, at the time, if the shotgun was pointed at his head in order for his employer to pay into unemployment since he didn't pay it.
What exactly didn't I understand about that?

I guess they dont charge Social Security Disability taxes any more out of peoples checks ? I know they charge state taxes and federal, including unemployment. Hmmm.....God forbid that anyone gets sick or hurt and your work dont cover it as work related. I guess you would be found at a library LMAO ! Anyone with a dictionary can figure out the difference between Unemployment and Disability !

You hit the nail on the head again. The biggest downside to socialism is a lack of motivation.

Short term assistance that keeps people afloat is a lot different than permanent 'help'. The later creates complacency in regards to the realities of the world along with no personal growth or motivation.

Bea,
This is a place to discuss Ideals not to present yourself as whole persona.

If you think I have no compassion then you truly have not been paying attention at all to my discussions with Dan.

The world is black and white. What is evil is evil and what is good is good. There is no room for compromise there. Stealing is Stealing. Whether done through government or not.

I admitted I was wrong on unemployment but did not understand your post at the time. In either case, my company encouraged us to take the unemployment. It became a type of charity at that point and not something that was stolen from them.

I have no false pride. I have earned what I have. I am proud to have accomplished what I have in my life. I went from barely graduating high school to being the first in this generation of my family to own their home. I am the only one of this generation to join the service so far. I will be the first of the generation to start a family. I have completely made up for the short comings of my academics in high school to be the only student in my calculus classes to get placed in them without any prior calculus knowledge and be able to keep up and maintain an A average till the final. My pride is well earned and established.

I don't expect compassion to come from anyone with out their blessing. Monetary help from the government does not come voluntarily from those who supplied the money.



Once again back to Albany. By creating this senate situation the Republicans are working. They are working in the name of their constituents like me. Just because they aren't sitting in a certain room debating doesn't mean work is not being accomplished. As a matter of fact it is and with the most efficiency (not speed) I have seen out of Albany in my life.

If your employer is forced to pay a tax, unemployment in this case, they pass that on to the rest of us. Really, we pay the tax, not the employer.

Just like a utility or gasoline tax. National Grid or the gas companies do not pay that tax, we do in the form of higher prices.

Since that cost is passed on to us, we pay it and you are then taking from us. It does not matter what budget line item it is, it is a tax on all of us, as are all taxes.

You are taking money from me.

You state short term assistance is now ok with you, how convent. To avoid unemployment, maybe you should reenlist in the Navy, they don’t have lay offs.

Peter and Tyler I understand your point but there are always exceptions to your wishful thinking. I dare to say that you are speaking as healthy successful young adults. As you age and your family does, I hope you would (will)change your tune a little.

I disagree. "National Grid or the gas companies do not pay that tax, we do in the form of higher prices". I pay all kinds of taxes including state on my national grid and verizon bill. I pay a NYS tax on EVERTHING I buy no matter what its called.

"If your employer is forced to pay a tax, unemployment in this case, they pass that on to the rest of us. Really, we pay the tax, not the employer."

Really? As an actual employer, how am I passing the costs associated with unemployment insurance along to you? Don't tell me I raise my prices to offset this expense because I look at everything we do from the end-users perspective and am incredibly reluctant to raise our prices, haven't in almost five years in fact.

Also, I make similar points to Peter, and based on what I can infer about him from his posts, I have children his age. My values and principles haven't changed any over the years - they're not supposed to otherwise you didn't really believe them in the first place.

Gabor, you're right. Except, when the family grows older and weaker they've paid into the system for 40+ years.

Andrew, excellent quote at the end of your post. "they're not supposed to otherwise you didn't really believe them in the first place."

Peter, I know your emotions got the best of you but, you should really apologize to Bea. I know you like to stir it up but, she didn’t deserve being called names. There is also no sense in picking on Dan.

I think there was a good conversation about partisanship in Albany that got side tracked. How about we push the reset button?

HOWARD-----------Troll filter needed:(

Andrew,
Good point and I stand corrected, but that forced tax then holds down your profit if you absorb the cost. However, many businesses can not absorb the cost of the tax or in the case of utility and gas companies, don’t have to, and pass it on to us.

How many employers would pay into the unemployment fund if not forced to? I am sure some might, but most would not.

The point with Peter was that he first came out against all government payouts to anyone, and HUD and Dan were his best examples. But he is willing to justify his cut of the pie and not willing just to not take the money. In my opinion only, that’s talking out of both sides of his mouth.

For the record, I have no problem with unemployment insurance.

Charlie,
Reset button set.

Judith,
thank you for your post.
Frankly, I don't mind the label "old crone". I guess, with age, that label becomes more obvious. I've always said I was so old that I remembered when the Dead Sea wasn't sick (among other little bits that I would use online when someone wanted personal information I was unable to give them).
I am no stranger to flame wars...at one time, it was my job to stop them. I've tried not to engage in them now that I'm a 'civilian'...it isn't as easy as I thought.
When someone gets to the level of having to use name calling as their only defense then it is apparent that they have run out of real debate material.
As I stated, Peter, may be a very likable fellow. I swore a few weeks ago that I wouldn't be baited by him any longer. I fell off the wagon.
Once again, thanks.

Judith,
I do post on the D and C. NebulaOcton

My problems with Bea have nothing to do with her being female or strong.

She chose to attack Chelsea, who was simply explaining me, in this thread.
http://thebatavian.com/blogs/howard-owens/accident-route-63-causes-serio...
This on top of the legend comments led to my conclusion that she is in my experience with her an old crone.

John did deserve what I said. I was having a civil and meaningful discussion with Charlie until John jumped in and attacked me. Charlie and I were discussing the senate. I was not angry at what John said and if what I wrote was spoken you wouldn't have even remembered I started with Bite me.

I am here to post my logical conclusions. If my goal in life is to see how many friends I am getting then I have a sad meaningless life. If instead my goal is to show others what I feel is the best way to productive society, I am still small potatoes but working towards that goal. Luckily neither is my goal in life.


I am not negative, you are reading a tone into my messages that unless I say things like Bite me are not there. I am and have been very even tempered in this discussion. Defending my beliefs and convictions does not make me negative.

No war of words is necessary. This just an explanation from my point of view of what has occurred and why I have said some of the things I have said. Believe what you wish but understand that I did not pick these "fights"

Ah.. the beauty of technology and the ease of expressing ones self. The printed word is obsolete but the posted word is better, although it cant sting as hard ? !

Bea, it's OK. Relapse happens. The young man obviously came from a less than desirable childhood, and he feels the need to peacock his way through life. I have no issue with that. He should be proud of his achievements, but it should not be used to belittle another. While I am not a fan of Dan myself, it has nothing to do with the fact he needs help. It's his anger and stubborness, which by the way is a common character trait he shares with Peter. All i know is, Albany is broke and it needs fixing. Anarchy is not the answer Mr. O'brien, real discussion and action is what is needed.

I've deleted more than a dozen posts in this thread. All the ones that were clear personal attacks and most of the ones who is a third party and not part of this discussion, but should not be a part of it.

If you feel there is still a post up where you are attacked, you feel you are attacked, point it out to me in private e-mail and I will review it again. Some of them are borderline, but also bring up other legitimate things.

I missed most of this discussion being in court and dealing with other matters in the afternoon.

Remember, let's try to take the "person" out of it -- discussions should be about issues not each other.