Thanks for the advice, But...

Amen to that Charlie Mallow. Keep up the good work!

Charlie so glad you come on here and tell it like it is..I too find it amazing how people from outside of batavia feel that they should have a say in who and what we need to spend our money on..I myself can not image going to a nother town or city and tell them who they should keep on the payroll.I also think that it is wrong for the plumbing inspector to take her begging for her full time status to be reinstated to the public..People in the privite sector get down sized all the time.She need to move on.You would think a master plumber would be able to get a job anywhere..

Not one of the people who live outside Batavia, who say we should rehire people said they would help pay. All they have to do so show they really think we need to spend more is for them to write a check to the City.

Bit, talk is cheap and that is all they are going to do. It's not their taxes that will go up. They should put up or shut up, or move into the city

It's unreal that some Councilmen, like Tim Buckley, find their argument persuasive enough to make their case for them at the last Council meeting.....its a shame that I wasn't there, it would have been a good laugh.

Mr Mallow,

I find your comments rather ironic..... it was not very long ago when city council decided to change the way city ambulance service is billed to towns in genesee county. Although many county residents didn't agree with these new fees most towns did agree to pay the new fee that was based on call quantity. So now COUNTY tax payer money is comming into the city's budget. With this in mind i read your following comment "I always sit back in amazement when people who don’t live in the city or pay our taxes call for raising the burdens on city residents." Now i understand these are two different subjects we are referring to , but you need to understand and the public need's to understand that not 100% of the cities money is from city residents. I'm not sure that all the county resident's would understand your complaints when in reality town's within the county "hire" city services.

Mr. smith,
Your "county" money only paid the cost for a new ambulance, to keep helping you and you are not even paying the full cost it takes to take care of you. You don't pay for the gas, the repairs to the ambulance, the salary of the workers or any of their retirement. We pay it for you and it has to stop. Finally our City Council has gone on record as saying the service will end and you will not be "hiring " us anymore.

Of course, the real issue is people who do not live in the City who want us to pay more in property taxes to bring back some part time employees to full time.

We, the ones who live here and pay the taxes last year demanded the city cut cost when looking at an almost 20% tax increase. We demand cuts in City Hall. The Council stepped up and made cuts. Not everyone wanted every cut, but cuts were made and all 9 members voted for them.

Who said what? I'm at a loss as to which outsiders pitched in their two cents.

Mr Roach,

It may very well be better off in the future when the city no longer provides ambulance service. Maybe then the city won't request help from other ambulances in the county when all their rigs are busy. The bottom line is fast professional patient care, it's a shame that budget issue's within the city have affected medical care to the residents of this area ( including city residents). We're all people no matter where we live. I'm sure that if a properly set up ambulance system was operated that the county money along with insurance transport money would make the ambulance service a profitable business for the city of Batavia. It seems the damage has been done and i'm sure there are ambulance service's out there that would be more than happy to have the added income. Sorry to interject my opinion after all i'm not a city resident. Good luck with all the politics and by the way Merry Christmas

Just a question

How much does Batavia or any other small city receive in state aid compared to the small towns surrounding them?
I doubt these cities are floating in it but then the roads do seem to be nicer in the city than in the towns which sometimes still have only grovel
many NYC streets are paved with gold

Unrelated questions
Does W/upstate NY receive their true fair share of roadway money considering how much we have to drive to get from place to place in comparison to large cities? How many gas stations are in small towns compared to cities in regards to each population?

Not saying this allocation math doesn't make sense
Just asking if one gets afforded more cash than the other eventhough a smaller town may be rather forced to do most of its business in the cities

I'm just not quite 100% in favor of this city members only stuff
Not sure the world works this way
If there was a mall upgrade would Batavia not advertise to those "out there" to fill it up?
Doesn't seem like you should if you're against outsiders asking what those in the city do with their cash

Does the city see itself as their salvation ..so why not just just get it over with sooner rather than later

Sure, it works both ways
It works both ways

Perhaps the city of Batavia/others like them don't seem to spend their revenue money well enough to appease the "towns"
If that's the case
It's hard for me to see why anyone anywhere in the world shouldn't be allowed at least a say

essential services consists of what?
Central corridor rejuvenation essential?
quagmire this year? Only?
Doesn't seem like rejuvenation for "Renasaaaunce" lol
would be an essential if Batavia were rockin&rollin
I mean

I'm sure there has been waste
There always is
That's their money as well being wasted ..their future considering many will work and play in the city
I just don't see it B&W like that

Mr. Smith,
1) At first, this line had nothing to do with the ambulance service. It was about people from outside the city coming here and telling the city it must spend more tax money on hiring city workers. They do not pay the tax and do not live here. They can always go to their own village or town board and ask them to hire more people so they can pay more, but no, they come here and tell us we should.

2) You brought the ambulance service up. Some fools on an old City Council thought they could provide a service better than a private company.They also thought the city would make money on the service if they offered it to the towns and villages. The towns and villages saw a "free' service, they did not have to pay. This was never going to work and many of us said so. Years later, we are right.

The County is not going to get into the ambulance business, just ask your own legislator. The City can provide ambulance service for the city and the people would pay for it like they do for police and fire protection. Neither police or fire service "make money", but are what we want. We want it, we pay for it.
The County is not going to get into the ambulance business. Just ask your own legislator.

The problem is outside the city. The towns and villages want the service but do not want to pay the full cost.They don't even want to pay the small cost they had to pay last year just to buy a new ambulance for them.

I do not want a private service for the city. I am willing to pay for the professional, full time service we have now, but only for the city.

Since the towns and villages have said they will not pay the full cost for serive to them, they can go off on their own.

Greetings to all in this message forum,
First off I totally agree with Mr. Smith. The City says that we(county residents) were feeding off this "free service" that the city was giving us via ambulance service. Well it's kind of a one hand washes the other. What happens when there is a large emergency anywhere in the county. We help eachother out. Christina's fire... Pauly's Fire. There were multiple "county" agencys there to help on the drop of a hat. And no money is asked for for our help. When the city is out of ambulances because they are all out on the "bread and butter" runs of transporting patients out of town. Who covers for them? The county volunteers. And the city does get money from county residents when those city ambulances come out to our towns. Because alot of times the city ambulances are called out well before the town volunteer fire departments are. Therefore the city ambulances arrive first and transport the patients. Those patients get bills for that service. So, at least in my simple mind, that would mean that the city IS receiving money from that ambulance responding out of the city.

And then to see comments about how no county residents have any money towards the city budget. That is not true either. I grew up in a rural town adjacent to the city. But my parents still payed city school taxes because the city school district does spread outside the city limits. And there is another place maybe county residents should have a say in. My parents payed Batavia school taxes and had to work another job to send me to a different school because Batavia schools were so bad. Maybe the city should worry more about the basics than adding landscape and brick sidewalks to Ellicott Street. or putting in an absolute assenine "circle" over at walnut st. pearl st. intersection.

I just hope that the money and politics do not end up coming before patient care, like seems to be doing.

Hope you all have a Merry Christmas

"And then to see comments about how no county residents have any money towards the city budget. That is not true either. I grew up in a rural town adjacent to the city. But my parents still payed city school taxes because the city school district does spread outside the city limits."

If your parents went to a school board meeting then there should be no objection to them sharing thoughts, they pay school taxes, not city taxes and the city government has no control over the school district. If the surrounding towns want to have the city ambulance service, then they should pay the asked fee for it. If they don't want to pay the fee, then don't be stunned when the service isn't provided.

City taxpayers and renters carry the burden of the city.

The City of Batavia is a separate entity from other towns, many of you would be angered if we from Batavia came to town council meetings in Pembroke or Bergen and started making demands.

As I read this thread, one word keeps springing to mind: Consolidation.

I don't think your point has been proven at all opinion's are like a******* everybody has one this is america sir

Maybe these out of town people that feel that there point of view of what needs to happen in Batavia can buy a house here,thereare alot for sale...We do need more discussion on county government on this site.That is all something we can have a say in..So maybe you Mr.Miller can start the conversation..

Mr. Miller,
Your parents lived in the town and then later you decided not tomove here, why? We would love to have another tax payer, please come and help. Of course, feel free to just send a donation care of the City of Bativia.

Suggestion. . . Slip the ambulance service back to the hospital, similar to the way it was slipped to the City of Batavia. The city may still offer ambulance service through our fire department and all the fire departments throughout the county can also provide the service if they want to. I think the problem will then go back to the communities involved and could most effectively get resolved through a consolidation of services with all parties being on the same playing field and our county legislators taking the lead for consolidation through shared services. It is still going to cost the taxpayers, but in a more equally distributed way.

Let's please remember to be civil.

Is that civil as in the civil war....city vs county...ha

Mark, I'm just trying to keep people from loading up the canon in front of HLOM.

Laz, I know you like to provoke thought. So let’s try this your way.

Is the City Council a sporting event for county residents or a municipal board for
city residents?

Does anyone pay attention to the County Legislature?
How about their own School or Town Boards? What are the issues in your own municipalities?
What's your local or county budgets look like? How big are they?
How much are they wasting or saving? Why are your own board meetings not televised?
Are there print reports of your local meetings, or debate?

Why would someone care about decisions made in a different municipality that have no impact
on their own life and at the same time be oblivious to things that do?

Why cant you just answer the questions I asked instead of asking me questions
Seems you should have answers galore being in your position
I'd hate to know this is how it goes at meetings which may be why I don't bother
Seems the favorite answer is "when did you last go to a ____"
The people most interested in going and becoming involved in the process are those that want your jobs to do with it likely what you've done
We see this right here on this internet site

I don't pay close attention to -the- legislature because I assume it's like any other entity given power
a bureaucracy
a bunch of specialists doing the routine only able to truly answer what they specialize in -and since 1 specialist is unlikely there will likely be more than one answer- and anything that bridges needs long and tiresome advising/debate/testing/funding/approval

I trust the government will do always what the government has done before with few exceptions and those exceptions few and relatively far between

You're even asking me -US- to be specialists of our tiny, tiny area. Barely regional experts. What kind of growth with WNY have if everyone can only know what to do with their little piece in the puzzle and nothing much more?

Are you saying that if we solve every problem in the towns the cities will be fine?
I'm sure every gov't has the same issues but it seems -to me- to make more sense going after the bigger ones first.
What do I care what ..corfu? or batavia? or county? is doing wrong when the country itself is floundering?

Should we not vote for presidents/governors then
I could say that the POTUS has little effect on Bethany

Since we do vote statewide/nationally it seems we are saying those that hold positions of greater power will enact legislation that will trickle down
If we deserve this right because we are all part of the state/country
Aren't we all part of the county and places within it?
Of course
But why then shut 10-25 mile outsiders out?

I don't want say over the tiny
To get say over the large I have to run for ever greater office?

What happens if outsiders move into the city? City won't revolt? What if mexicans move into the USA?
What if outsiders stop buying city goods and become self-sufficient
What if outsiders stop selling to cities and those in the city revolt for not having food to eat?
Where do the farmers send their goods before being sold? Cities
No food on tax so how much does the farmer and town really collect on their food when all is said and done
I don't know. Seems stores and plants in the city would make most off it. More money and power for cities and the individual owners which means more power on a national level which could mean even less power for the towns which means even more power for individual and city
Towns get ambulance, plow and police service they have to pay a -probably- good portion of
The projects the county itself takes on are usually town or city projects? I don't know

What is the real problem? Seems pretty interconnected to have an exclusive all boys club.

Where is the real rundown? The receipt of absolutely everything that goes into everything? It's probably a mile long and written in a way only those wanting or already in the system can actually make sense of
-likely doesn't exist at all because the people in the gov't either won't allow it or have no idea how to go about actually tallying it- giving that task to scientific institutions which of course are subject to forces themselves and would take eons to give a definitive "answer"
But lets just say one exists
Who answers questions on "it" and how often? How many questions are asked of us when -we- do?

I don't know
I just don't see the problem with letting people speak and at least answering them with whatever you have to give

Sorry I have so little faith in the intellgentsia/gov't elite

Mr roach, and Mr mallow,
I tell ya what, why are you wasting your precious time arguing with us non city outcasts anyway??? Seems that you outta just ignore us and go about your business. Appartantly you do care about our opinion's because you keep beating dead horse's. If opinion's only matter where you can vote why do you care about our's??? Ignore them and go about your business gentlemen. You both have more important things to worry about i'm sure.You guys getting all fired up about things that don't matter is a prime example of politics as usual. You should look at the federal government see where it got them. My work here is finished...mission accomplished.

Howard ... the canon at the HLOM is a mere toy if push came to shove. LOL

jr Smith, umm, dude, take a breather?

If you don't live in the City then you shouldn't have a say in the way that it governs itself.

Furthermore, everyone who doesn't live in the City that uses our roads is optional, not mandatory, we're not charging anyone via toll or commuter tax. We have a tough fiscal situation that we're trying to resolve, no one is being "outcasted", you can live here if you want....but if you don't, please turn your attention to your own towns, you won't hear me making demands of Governments in other towns.

daniel,
I'll try this one more time... none of the opinions of non city resdients matter to you guys because it's not our money, we can't vote ect. So why did anyone even bother with this blog if it has no real impact on your dealings. Move on boys this was done to get you guys all fired up and appartantly it worked take a step back from this whole conversation and look at your self's. This is rediculous you guys are running to the computer every 10 minutes to see if any of us wrote back so you can one up the last guy. You guys need to learn what to listen to and what to ignore i'm sure any politicians in a city of any size would laugh at this...i sure am
I'm gunna go watch paint dry..later

jr, your the one who initiated the conversation in the first place, sorry if you don't like the results my friend. Furthermore, I'm really putting minimal effort into this debate, I have a lot of stuff to do.

I'm not upset
"Seems" like you were shifting the blame to me -them- and our mis-handling of our towns which leads us to go looking into the cities for our answers
I don't see it that way if that's how you meant that part
I see cities as part of the rural problem

But I want you to explain it to me, Charlie
In a blog. How else could you possibly do it?
You're here and I'm here
No time constraints
I will give you all the time you need
Of course you don't want to take the time and I can understand that
But I can also say this is part of the problem
I think that's fair to say.
If the questions are too large to answer here where can they be answered? Educational centers
Fair to say. Then I'd say you're in the system at that point. I think that's fair to say. Not saying people in the system cannot do good work ..just saying the overwhelming majority will make the good, progressive work a mere pacifier for those angry
I don't know everything there is to know about gov't
Doesn't strike me as something all that worth knowing unless you feel like you're getting screwed
But I would at least like those in these positions to answer a question when I ask one so I can have some kind of trust in them
I don't see why anyone would hire someone unwilling to answer the bigger questions

What I'm saying is that our lives are so dependent on one another so that if either side were
to "quit" the other would
WOULD
speak out against them

Are you telling me that if the surrounding dairy farmers were to sell off all their land and develop -eventually into suburbs and cities themselves-
you -being in the city- would not plead for them to stay in business so that your milk wont cost 3x as much?

Highly doubt it.
I'm sure things would get very rude very quickly. skip food and dairy and go to water. What if rural areas had more water but shared water with larger cities having less
What then if rural areas lessened their sharing of water with the cities so they could develop farmland
What happens then? Is that rude? Is rude what the rurals are?

What about wind power
What if every town around here were able to and did erect wind farms completely surrounding the city?
Very quickly would it become a county issue ..state issue ..national issue?
wouldn't it?
City will always get its way

If those outside the city contribute to the city more than the city contributes to those outside
There will be issues
You may say it's a county problem and so take it up with county legislators
If our county spends more on city projects in effort to trickle down prosperity what would change
I don't know
If the people themselves create change I'm sure there would be a reaction to it ..to fix it

I see new "essentials" popping up in the city but out in surrounding towns it seems as if everything has stood rather still ..for decades

That is about my only "proof" that inequality exists
But I think its pretty strong
Since how it has been done is how it has been done for..ever? there is little reason to believe not going to the source of these issues -the cities- will have any impact
rudeness AKA squeaky wheel
Don't speak to people who then have to speak to people (who then very likely would speak to people) to alter the way things are
Go to the cities. A town cannot always effectively start at the state level due to the state working most for the cities

While those in rural areas do not have to use city roads doesn't mean there are equal roads in rural areas
If there were there may be more reason to travel into them ...as in development
which means less farming
which means higher food prices
which means

People in cities I wouldn't think would care to get involved in the more rural
Much more likely to involve themselves in other/larger cities finances and call them county concerns

"Seems" like double-dipping

Lazario, I never said that you were upset, here's the bottom line though: Each town has its own municipal agency, take up your quarrels with them, we can re-invent the wheel over and over again but the reality still remains. We have to work with the system that we presently have.

If I as a City resident went into neighboring town's council meeting and started criticizing their policies I would be met with outrage. They would probably tell me that since I do not live there or running to represent the area that my opinion on their policies isn't relevant, they would be right.

The actions of the County Legislature are a better indicator of how policies will have effects County wide, the City however, exists to serve its people. I do believe that consolidation will be beneficial to the City's fiscal health and long-term financial integrity, and in those negotiations between other municipal agencies our interests should be represented by our elected officials. The ambulance service, which I believe was the initial conversation, is being provided at a fee to the surrounding towns, discussing the fee between agencies is one thing.....but for a person from another town making demands of our elected Council and expecting those demands to carry weight is absurd.

Imagine for a moment that New York had a shared service with Pennsylvania, and that after some controversy Pennsylvanians started making demands of the New York State Government.

Crazy huh? That is what is happening on a local level with this issue.

What's even scarier is that certain City Council members are taking up their argument.

Charlie,
Laz will never get it.

That's cold
You can help, John
You can help everyone here that isn't as wise as you
That's like 8 less than total membership
If I were to get it
If we were to get it
you might not be doing it anymore
You may then not get it
Because it might just change
"You" need those of your mold to be the ones getting it

Isn't there any truth to that?

Why is it "washington outsider" makes sense to people
Why do people seem to like the idea of outsiders

Maybe washington outsider just sounds neat
like real change being delivered
Seems that unless you have a complete flood of outsiders
into the system
All you really have is a couple surfers doing gnarly tricks that captivates people
Eventually the wave will toss the surfer or his run will run out

Once you're in the water you're wet
I don't think there are any outsiders inside
There are people doing some cool things every once in a while
But cool things always happen once in a while
simple probability
Outsiders
Ordinary people
Those not in the system
Need to change what the system is -for the system to change

Some truth to that?

People like the word
change
Do we need change or is change to the system just a way to pass time without careful thought as to whether it will be truly beneficial ..to our way of life
positive or negative

I thought I read up there earlier something to the effect of "This is how it is" as though the way it is is the best formation of it

I'll have to get to Mallow later

I wish a sounding board like this existed in every town or city I have ever lived in. It probably will when everyone else catches up in five or ten years. The Batavian online is an excellent asset to your community and my former community. Thanks for your hard work.

Thanks for the nice comment, George.

Are city council members compensated in any way for their services?

Conor,
Yes, they get $2000 per year, which comes out to about $1.50 per hour for the time they put in. That pay rate was set in 2000 and has never gone up. Do you know any other group that did not get a raise in 9 years?

If they go on approved travel or to a training program, the cost if payed. An example would be the New York Conf. of Mayor (NYCOM) training held once a year in Rochester.

I do not know any other group that did not get a raise in 9 years John, let me go look that up. However thank you for your generosity of finding that information for me. It is greatly appreciated.

I just find it sad that our council can get worked up into a frenzy over whether or not the city should retain baseball, but the roads can't get plowed. I know that has nothing to do with this topic, but that's just something I found incredibly funny when I came home over break. I love the Muckdogs-- some of my favorite childhood memories are a result of my time spent at Dwyer Stadium. Of course baseball is important in Batavia, but I feel that plowing the roads, and moreover the resident's safety, is of greater importance than things that are more "quality of life" institutions. As I travel more and more, I'm finding it incredibly apparent that one can more or less judge whether or not a city government "gets it" from simply being in the city. Sure, you can look at it from the books.. seeing the city's financial status, but you can no more judge a city by reading it's bank ledger than you can judge a man by reading his words. One must embrace that which they judge. After doing so I can say that the city's current government simply does not get it. I don't need a college degree to know that, and neither do the citizens of the once great city.